 Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
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OP
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So, I REALLY don't like that oil cooler.  It's ugly, and oh so pervasive.  So, I'm thinking of just gettin' rid of it!  Yea, I COULD get a mega-buck aftermarket one that's less obnoxious, BUT WHY?  I mean, none of my other bikes have one.  I know it helps keep the temp.s down, but by how much? I'm thinkin' it's negligible. A radiator and water cooling would make it run cooler as well, but it ain't got that! (Thank God!  ) I'm planning to get one of those cheap oil temp. gauges that fit in the oil fill hole, and see how much of a temp. difference it really makes. I believe there will be SOME help in cooling from the less restrictive air flow hitting the front (exhaust side) of the cylinders, making the loss of the oil cooler balance out. (or CLOSE TO IT) My concern is, Can I just block off (plug) the oil cooler lines where they enter/exit the motor for the experiment, or is that flow path essential for the oil circulation? Has anyone discussed this, or tried it before my time (B.C.) ?
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
The Jack Pine Scrambler doesn't have one. They beat the crap out of it in the desert.
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 146
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 146 |
This is an interesting topic. I hope someone with some expertise answers your question. If Harleys can live without oil coolers, shouldn't our bikes fare better?
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I'm sure the dry sump has something to do with it on the Harleys.
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
I am thinking it should be fine but then I am thinking, the engineers went to school for a lot of years and burned up a lot of motors before they settled on this one.
Don't know how it would fare in a traffic jamb.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Check this out web page I have already bought a pair of frame rails from Pinwall to try this.
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
The 865 cc engine internals are stock, but the removal of the oil cooler threw me at first. It’s apparently had no injurious effect: “with richer jetting and new pipes, oil temperatures have not been a problem,” says Hammarhead. “I constructed a custom Spurgin oil cooler for the bike, but while I was waiting for the lines to arrive, my brother encouraged me to throw in a few plugs and light the bike. We ran it with an oil temp gauge and slowly became more confident. For nervous folks (like me) an oil cooler is a no-cost option.”
Read more: http://www.bikeexif.com/triumph-t100#ixzz1nSjmuzmr
Food for thought. And, in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unaRkye1OBk
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,073 Likes: 82
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,073 Likes: 82 |
Well... gotta chime in on this one.
Engineers are a pretty smart bunch of folks and bean counters are bean counters so if the people who designed the engine didn't really think it needed it, it wouldn't be there. X amount of dollars per unit... think about it.
It's your bike so do as you will but mine will be staying right where it is.
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
Well... gotta chime in on this one.
Engineers are a pretty smart bunch of folks and bean counters are bean counters so if the people who designed the engine didn't really think it needed it, it wouldn't be there. X amount of dollars per unit... think about it.
It's your bike so do as you will but mine will be staying right where it is.
I'm almost in full agreement with Chy - Especially down to mine is staying where it is. However, one would have to be inclined to believe the thing, without any forced air induction, is virtually useless at the time heat is most likely to spike - hot ambient temperatures and stopped in heavy traffic. So, my guess is the engineers and accountants followed the instructions of the legal department to devise a way to maintain engine temperatures within a set range for some average of time as dictated by some government agency as an effort to stabilize operating temperatures which inpact emissions characteristics. In short, I'm saying it's there for a reason, but I suspect the reason may well not be the reason we might suspect. Just the same - mine is and will remain where it was hung.
2004 Triumph Speedmaster (J Lo) 2006 Yamaha Stratoliner (Adele)
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
The Sr. Tech at the shop where I bought my bike has a 904 Scram without the oil cooler. He says it does just fine. I've ridden the bike, & have no reason to doubt him. He removed it for weight savings.
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
erle... get in touch with rod burner on newbonnevilleriders.com. He did a thing where he concerted his bonny to an oil in frame and removed the cooler.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
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I'll do that, and see if I can get a response from Triumph themselves.  All the other (earlier) Triumph parallel twins didn't have them, and arguably, MOST other bikes don't either. NO DOUBT IT HELPS, but again, to how much of an extent. (and again, the wind flow on the front of the hottest side of the cylinders WOULD be improved).  Yes, the engineers approved it, but sooner or later, they'll probably "approve" water cooling, with a BIG, UGLY, FUGLY radiator too. As long as I get conformation that the elimination of the oil path will not be a problem, I'll experiment and collect data on the oil temp. change, IF ANY.  Don't you think the elimination of that UGLY, FUGLY, P.O.S. would be a KILLER improvement on looks!?? 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,073 Likes: 82
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,073 Likes: 82 |
Quote:
Don't you think the elimination of that UGLY, FUGLY, P.O.S. would be a KILLER improvement on looks!??
I hardly notice it's there.. it's not like it's the size of a Rocket 3 radiator. I keep the cooler lines polished anyway, kinda like the way they look.
Ahhh to each their own.. good luck with your mods.
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
I've got ten thumbs but I was thinking,if nothing else the cooler and pipelines would increse the oil capacity by at least half a litre ,so that in itself would be a good thing ???
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
Good point. 1/2 litre is about 20% of the total oil volume.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152 |
also, the oil is either going to go from the EXTREMELY hot engine internals though a heat sink at room temp or it's going to go from the EXTREMELY hot engine internals back to the EXTREMELY hot engine internals.
I don't know that it's strictly required but i
d bet money it does reduce the oil temp noticeably.
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,227 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,227 Likes: 62 |
On the old twins we used to put oil coolers on them and the oil tank being seperate from the engine would also bleed off heat. I am leaving mine where it is, I have reached uncomfortable temps in traffic.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
All the other (earlier) Triumph parallel twins didn't have them, and arguably, MOST other bikes don't either.
Wish I'd had one on my now seized 64. Just sayin'
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
So, of the four who have ACTUALLY removed the cooler, (to date, Streetmaster, Hammarhead Ind. [Jack Pine Scrambler], The Tech. Ken knows, and Rod Burner) and run their bikes to more extremes than I probably do, they ALL say there's been NO NEGATIVE EFFECT. In EVERY post, I've stated that the oil cooler MUST have SOME benefit , just trying to determine HOW MUCH benefit. (as opposed to the benefit of gettin' that damn ugly thing OUT OF THERE!)  Just think how safe, and how much better we'd be If, in addition to the cooler, we ALSO added the extra cooling and volume by adding both the oil in frame and the oil bag . Now THERE'S a thought. I still haven't verified that the lines can be plugged, without damage from interrupting the oil flow path. (though from reading the articles from those who have done it, it does seem to verify that it doesn't matter) Once I'm convinced of that, the testing with the oil temp. gauge SHOULD prove (to me, anyway's) WHAT the temp. difference ACTUALLY is. (Sure wish SOMEONE ELSE would test this ) (then again, I guess those above have) It would be NICE to see one, and talk to someone who's done this, at Daytona in a couple weeks!  
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Hmmm , running HOT oil into a HOT , black frame tube that's closed . That should put some ice crystals in it .
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Yes I don't know...  Understood  Gottcha  Agree True Agree WHAT!!!  Ok Ok Well, wait a minute... 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Quote:
Hmmm , running HOT oil into a HOT , black frame tube that's closed .
That should put some ice crystals in it .
"Modern Triumph Bonneville and Thruxton engines are oil cooled as well as air cooled. As such they are fitted at the factory with a supplemental oil radiator of questionable looks.
Streetmaster ran tests to determine the efficiency of the factory oil cooler in comparison to running the oil through the tubing of a replacement sub frame. It was found that the sub frame cooled oil temperatures dropped at least 20 F more than the stock oil cooler. This was due to the large surface area of the tubing and an increase of oil capacity of almost 1 liter. The result is a much cleaner appearance and reduction in complexity.
The unit is a direct replacement and installs in less than 1 hour."
From the Streetmaster link.
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
you need an oil cooler. I tried to find the article in American Iron about how Harely is doing a dis-service to their clients by not having one. You coul make one that would be cool with some aluminum or cooper tube if you are creative. You need x amount of turbulent flow to be optimal after that the sky is the limit.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Harley's are a different animal, with the rear cyl. blocked by the front cyl. I have been looking at coolers on ebay, preferably a polished brass one, but nothing that strikes me to date. REALLY lookin' to just "can it", but a nice, smaller, BRASS one.... 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,494 Likes: 6
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,494 Likes: 6 |
You can use these from Bonneville Performance http://bonnevilleperformance.com/OIL%20COOLER.htm or run the oil in the frame and add fins 
'04' Black America
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
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Yep, those are DEFINITLY an improvement, and there's several just like them that, not listed as a "Triumph" accessory, are MUCH cheaper.
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
...And I personally aren't that "excited" about that "Oil in the frame" thing.
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
...And WHERE exactly would the "reduction in complexity" be!??
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 16
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 16 |
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4 |
Ways back when I was a yute, I had one of them 650 Yammers that was basically a Triumph copy. I was living in San Diego where it is pretty hot too. It always ran really hot. I installed one of the Lockhart oil coolers, basically just like ours. It made a HUGE difference in engine temps. I would keep the oil cooler on. The best test would be with bypassing as suggested, and installing an oil temp gauge to check the difference. I bet you will find it to run much cooler with the cooler. Hmmm, I bet that is why they call it a cooler maybe???
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
"Modern Triumph Bonneville and Thruxton engines are oil cooled as well as air cooled. As such they are fitted at the factory with a supplemental oil radiator of questionable looks.
Streetmaster ran tests to determine the efficiency of the factory oil cooler in comparison to running the oil through the tubing of a replacement sub frame. It was found that the sub frame cooled oil temperatures dropped at least 20 F more than the stock oil cooler. This was due to the large surface area of the tubing and an increase of oil capacity of almost 1 liter. The result is a much cleaner appearance and reduction in complexity.
The unit is a direct replacement and installs in less than 1 hour."
From the Streetmaster link.
That's not the same as just removing the oil cooler as you're proposing. You gonna convert your frame?
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
No, wouldn't want the oil in frame thing either. Was just thinking of plugging the holes at the motor, and then it would be just like every other air cooled motorcycle I've ever had, or have now. I live in Florida, where any winter day can to be 80+, and every summer day is 90+. I've gone to many Bikeweek and Biketoberfest events in Daytona over the last couple decades, where "Traffic Jamb" is SUCH an understatement!, and temps are 90+, the asphalt probably 140, and never had a air cooled bike with a oil cooler. Never seized one, never blew one up. But maybe the Triumph motors can't Handel it like the Jap bikes we've all had since what, 1950's? But I agree, the ONLY way to tell is to "Git R done"  Are those little temp. gauges that plug into the oil filler hole good? Do they have a sensor that dips into the oil itself? I don't think the "Jack Pine" bike, or the one owned by Ken's dealer, had ANY oil mod done other then just plugging the line holes, and removing the cooler. Ken, Does your head tech. at your dealer EVER ride in NORMAL traffic? Would SURE like more input from his experiences, since he MAY be the only one mentioned yet who has actualy done it, rode it under normal conditions, and would be a reliable source.
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Quote:
The Sr. Tech at the shop where I bought my bike has a 904 Scram without the oil cooler. He says it does just fine. I've ridden the bike, & have no reason to doubt him. He removed it for weight savings.
Hey Ken, Can ya post the name, or phone number, of your local dealer, I'd spend some time on the phone to get some answers/opinions! (on my Magic Jack!  )
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Get some tubing and wrap the down tubes of the frame. Or relocate it to where the air box goes.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
I'm gonna do some thing with the oil cooler on the 02 I'm working on but I'm not sure what yet. I'm trying to make a 60cal. round into a rear brake reservoir right now. oil cooler next.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
...Can ya post the name...
PM inbound...
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
You should have some kind of oil cooler. The older twins had a block of solid metal between the cylinders to help carry heat around to the fins and the dry sump oil system helped cool the oil. The new twins have a hollow spot between the cylinders where the cam chain runs. To make up for the lack of heat sinking metal there, they cool some of the oil and pour it down the cam chain slot. The long term effect of taking away this flow of cooled oil is that the cylinders will heat unevenly and change shape. This will cause uneven wear on the cylinders, pistons and rings which will shorten engine life. This might not matter so much on competition bikes because they usually get rebuilt every season.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Oil cooler delete.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212 |
Arg, i don't think i would remove it, i really never seen it as being that big an eye sore to be honest with you. At least its in line with the frame not like some that are way out front or inside the frame.
2007 Speedmaster and miss it!
2013 T-Bird Storm and Luvin it!
Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at 70 mph can double your vocabulary
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