 Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144 |
Ok, she won't start. Now what?
The bike ran great all day and through several starts. This evening; however, she won't start. The console, tach, speedo light up as usual when the key is turned. The high beam indicator and the headlight do not. When the starter switch is depressed I get a single click from under the tank and nothing else. I pulled the battery cover, expecting a dead battery (she's an '07 and has never needed a battery). The battery reads 12.4V, both when the starter is depressed and when it isn't. So, I assume the connection isn't being made, allowing the battery to key the starter.
I've read a lot about the "headlight relay" and/or loose/blown headlight fuse. I'm wondering if you folks think this is the best place to start? If this is the best place to start, can someone provide a picture as to where the headlight fuse and the headlight relay reside?
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,074 Likes: 83
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,074 Likes: 83 |
Starter relay... I had to replace mine on the road trip.
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
If your battery is reading 12.4 volts rested then it is flat (less than 60% charged) and needs recharging. It should show at least 12.8 volts rested after charging or riding. Lead acid batteries don't like going under about 70% charge (12.5 volts) and will quickly die if they do. They also don't like going that low and being recharged more than a few times. This includes our OEM Yuasa AGM or VRLA batteries.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
The relays live under the tank on the right side of the backbone. You might try to eliminate the solenoid before you yank the tank by jumping the posts (be careful it might get sparky) but my money is with Chy on the relay.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144 |
Thanks for the suggestions folks.
She's still reading 12.4V without the charger and won't start. For kicks I put the bike on a charger this morning. With the charger, 16.4V. Bottom line, I don't think it's the battery as most battery problems I've encountered seem to start showing themselves in the 10V range. Plus, there's no drain in the battery when the starter is depressed so, for my money, I'm going with the starter solenoid. One last question: would a bad starter solenoid cause the headlight not to illuminate? Thanks.
I'll keep you posted!
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
You might want to check out this PDF from Yuasa batteries on charging and voltages. It surprised me ... 10 volts means your battery is dead. Less than 12 volts means it's less than 50% charged ... pretty much terminal for a lead acid battery. There is another PDF on charging from Yuasa here.16.4 volts is extremely high - is it a measurement taken directly after charging? Voltages should be measured at least one hour after the battery has finished charging. This is the rested voltage and it's the one that counts.
Last edited by foglefar; 07/06/2011 8:57 AM.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
I read that post as he is testing the output of the charger at the battery terminals and it looks like the charger is working just fine. The headlamp not lighting points directly at the relay under the tank, I'm thinkin' Chy got this one first try :-)
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144 |
Well, I just learned something about batteries. Thanks foglefar! The 16.4V is measured while it's charging. I took the measurement because I've seen batteries fail internally and voltage become reduced while charging. Kinda like a capacitor when the dielectric begins to fail. I just included that info so folks knew it wasn't failing like that.
I've got her on the charger now. At lunch I'll run over and see if she behaves differently with a charge on the battery. If so...time for a new battery. If not...I'll get the relay. Both the battery and the relay can be returned so I'm not too concerned about using a little trial and error to diagnose the problem.
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816
Freelance Jedi Knight
|
|
Freelance Jedi Knight
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816 |
headlight relay under the tank is my bet!!!attached to the frame next to indicators relay
to eliminate other things you can bridge big posts on starter solenoid using big insulated screwdriver(bike should start)
Last edited by Grzegorz; 07/06/2011 1:01 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144 |
Ok, the plot thickens.
I went home and took her off the charger...she read 14.7V yet, the same problem. The headlight was still out and she wouldn't start. I took out the headlight fuse and found it blown! Eureka! Ran to the dealership and bought a slew of new fuses. Installed the new fuse, turned the key and...blamo, it blew! I called the dealership to order the new starter relay...ready for this?...there is no "starter relay." The only relays are a "grommet" relay, "indicator" relay, and "crossover" relay. They think the "crossover" relay is the one I want but they don't know. They ordered in the crossover relay for 10 bucks. Really inexpensive if this is in fact the "starter relay." Does this make any sense to anyone?
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
As I understand it (and this is what the schematic shows) the "starter" relay it cuts off the headlight to save amperage when you hit the starter. And, it's plainly labeled "stater relay" in the shop manual. Maybe they call it a crossover relay in PA...
Me? I'd be checking the headlight bucket for a chafed wire right about now to suss the fuse blowing.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 75
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 75 |
Yeah, I agree with Old Roadie, a buggered relay shouldn't cause the fuse to blow. It will be a fault in your cables somewhere.
Softens your hands while you do the dishes - You're soaking in it!!!!
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Yeah, I agree with Old Roadie, a buggered relay shouldn't cause the fuse to blow. It will be a fault in your cables somewhere.
+1 
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144 |
Spoke with the Triumph mechanics. Apparently there's a common problem with wires under the seat chaffing. So, I took the seat off and looked...all insulation and connections appear to be intact. Granted I didn't take apart the entire wiring harness but I guess I'll need to take it to the dealer now. Well, one last thing to check...the bulb. I guess a blown headlight could cause the bike not to start, if it's shorted?...right?...or is this just wishful thinking? Any information would be appreciated before I plunk down the 80 bucks to have the local dealer diagnose this. (How do you spell "rip off?")
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144 |
UPDATE! I got the bike running! So, what caused her not to start? Was it a bad starter relay?...no. Maybe a bad headlight relay?...no. How about a chaffed wire?...no. Bad ground (somewhere)?...no. Drum roll please…how about a BURNT OUT/SHORTED HEADLIGHT BULB!!! That’s right! For some reason, when my headlight blew it shorted, blowing the fuses I put it. Granted, I always felt a blown fuse indicated a chaffed wire, bad connection, ground problem, Etc. I never thought a burnt out headlight would short out (let alone prevent a bike from starting). Lesson learned. I’ll be riding with a spare bulb from now on. If you’ll excuse me, it’s time to get back in the saddle. 
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1
Bar Shake
|
|
Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
I just love a happy ending.
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 237
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 237 |
both the relay and battery are returnable .UNTILL you install them .. then if not the prob ...You have spares.
I know of No parts supplier that will or can return a battery once installed.. it becomes used and most dont deal w/ USED batteries ... and most parts are returnable .. except for electrical .. good luck w/ that
07 SPEEDMASTER ..SLASHCUT BUBS..
NOLOGY COILS/WIRES ..PHANTOM BLACK ..CHROME COVERS...K&N PODS..
BEAUTIFULL WHEN SHE RUNS RIGHT..SHE WAS ..
.. I LIKE HER>> ALOT ~~
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 144 |
Luckily I didn't buy anything but a few 10a fuses ($3) and a new bulb ($9). I learned a long time ago...unless you're sure it's something expensive, start with the inexpensive! It payed off.
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
UPDATE!
I got the bike running! So, what caused her not to start? Was it a bad starter relay?...no. Maybe a bad headlight relay?...no. How about a chaffed wire?...no. Bad ground (somewhere)?...no. Drum roll please…how about a BURNT OUT/SHORTED HEADLIGHT BULB!!! That’s right! For some reason, when my headlight blew it shorted, blowing the fuses I put it. Granted, I always felt a blown fuse indicated a chaffed wire, bad connection, ground problem, Etc. I never thought a burnt out headlight would short out (let alone prevent a bike from starting). Lesson learned. I’ll be riding with a spare bulb from now on.
If you’ll excuse me, it’s time to get back in the saddle.
ah, simple stuff!
Your headlight bulb must have been shorted. I rode for thousands of miles with a burnt out low beam. 
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 740
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 740 |
ok,so now i have a similar problem. Battery charged,lights and horn etc work fine but I just get a single click when I hit the starter. The click is coming from under the right side of the tank(sitting on the bike). Sound like the starter relay? How do i bypass it to verify?
Bill.
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
-George Best
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 740
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 740 |
Bill.
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
-George Best
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
Quote:
both the relay and battery are returnable .UNTILL you install them .. then if not the prob ...You have spares.
I know of No parts supplier that will or can return a battery once installed.. it becomes used and most dont deal w/ USED batteries ... and most parts are returnable .. except for electrical .. good luck w/ that
Wal Mart will return a battery for the first 90 days it is the policy on everything they sell. The motorcycle batteries carry no warranty and are not returnable once acid is put in them but because of that policy they return them anyway.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,496 Likes: 7
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,496 Likes: 7 |
Item # 13 PN 1378968 That's for the starter solenoid... check ALL the wires/cables and make sure ALL the connections are tight(it takes more juice to spin the starter than to have the lights light or the horn to beep). Bill, use the link belowhttp://www.bikebandit.com/2004-triumph-speed-master/o/m17610#sch566465
Last edited by Two_Wheel_n; 08/07/2011 7:25 AM.
'04' Black America
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
ok,so now i have a similar problem. Battery charged,lights and horn etc work fine but I just get a single click when I hit the starter. The click is coming from under the right side of the tank(sitting on the bike). Sound like the starter relay? How do i bypass it to verify?
You can jump across the two posts on the solenoid (under the right side cover) to activate the starter; this will tell you if the solenoid is faulty. It's going to spark when you do that, don't jump too much :-) It could also be the starter/headlight cut out relay located on the right side of the backbone under the tank...there's no bypassing this, you'll have to replace the relay. Can't know without being there to lsiten as both clicks come from the right side of the bike.
I've recently learned that a $6 stock 4 pin 30 amp auto relay will work as a diagnosis tool (but the headlight is inoperative) to eliminate the relay as fault source. That 5 pin Hella relay wasn't readily available at my local parts store...
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 740
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 740 |
UPDATE,I took the tank and side panel off. The click was coming from the solenoid under the tank. Narrowed it down to the headlight solenoid. Removed the solenoid and then replaced it,making sure it was seated well,same,still dead. Removed it again and cleaned the contacts with WD40. Replaced it and its alive  I am going to go ahead and order a spare (just in case).It would be part #3 on this?: http://www.bikebandit.com/2004-triumph-speed-master/o/m17610#sch566471
Bill.
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
-George Best
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
By process of elimination it is #3. I'd like that better if they called it the starter relay like it's named in the shop manual. Change Over is a nice descriptive of what the relay does, robbing power from the headlight to spin the starter, but the same name as the factory would be better.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
12.4 volts in an AGM is really pretty low. As a general rule 16+ volts while charging will substantially weaken, & given enough time, kill an AGM battery. What type of battery do you have? Inoperative headlight was a clue. My tractor had what I suspected was a bad starter relay. I used a small 300 amp jump pack to bypass the relay & used the on-off switch on the jump pack as the starter switch. Turned out it was a bad seat safety switch, easily bypassed 
|
|
|
Re: Bike Won't Start
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 740
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 740 |
ok,cool ordered it (just in case)
Bill.
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
-George Best
|
|
|
|
|
