 33 degree rake
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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OP
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
The other day I was riding at a good clip down a town road with some traffic. That seemed to be behaving quite well when the traffic light turned yellow and the cager in front of me decided to stop in the intersection.  . So I had a choice, eat a back bumper sandwich, or try to turn left at 35mph. It was a very nice 90 degree intersection with on coming traffic. I pressed hard on the bars to lean the bike down, squeezed the clutch, and hand brake, and tried not to step to hard on the foot brake. As I pulled out of the turn I could breath again. I down shifted into second and cruised away as if i knew what I was doing. Indian Larry use to say the optimal rake for a bikes performance is between 32 and 34 degrees. the Americas rake is 33. I am a believer. 
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56 |
Haven't thought about Indian Larry in a while, there was one cool biker. R.I.P.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,738
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,738 |
When Indian Larry passed away the world lost a very talented artist that touched people all over the world with his motorcycle builds. He was one of a kind.
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5 |
if he had a helmet he may still be here
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Glad you got out of that one Chad.
Now,give yourself a little more space to react to cagers doing the unexpected. (They always will)
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56 |
Quote:
if he had a helmet he may still be here
Maybe not
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5 |
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Let's just say in the incident that took Larry I feel confident a helmet would have increased his chances of survival.
But in the end he died young doing what he loved verses withering away in a diaper somewhere.
RIP Indian Larry
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
RIP Indian Larry
+1, he was a good one
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 950
Banned
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Banned
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Posts: 950 |
You would be quite dead if it were a hardly you were on loco.Check your pants,,,I smell sumtin.
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
You would be quite dead if it were a hardly you were on loco.Check your pants,,,I smell sumtin.
Dude that is some random $hit you just typed 
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 950
Banned
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Banned
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Posts: 950 |
Let me make it clearer for you mike.Had he been on a Harley Davidson Motorcycle he would not have been so fortunate as to have competed the maneuvere that saved his lif.In other words "You would be quite dead if it were a hardly you were on". Then ,,,as if I were standing next to locopony after the incident I say to him.Check your pants man,I think you may have $hit yourself from the excitement. Or "Check your pants,,,I smell sumtin"
Are you up to speed now Mike,or should I type slower cause I know you dont read real fast ?
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
Are you up to speed now Mike,or should I type slower cause I know you dont read real fast ?
Interesting fantasy you have there, is that how they do it PA.
I see your bio states" Very new to road bikes.My first road bike is my America" Apparently you're very new to a lot of things
Do us all a favor and don't type slower, just don't type anything. Is that clear enough for you!
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 950
Banned
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Banned
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Mike Really? Relax .are you the content poilice here? There ya go...I kept the wrod count down for you.feel better 
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
Mike Really? Relax .are you the content poilice here? There ya go...I kept the wrod count down for you.feel better
Spell check? 
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
Quote:
...I pressed hard on the bars to lean the bike down, squeezed the clutch, and hand brake, and tried not to step to hard on the foot brake...
I am struggling to understand the sequence here ... did you push the bars - initiating the turn - and then pull the clutch in and brake while in the turn?
Regardless I am glad you came out cleanly - and you obviously did something right 
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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OP
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
yes I pulled the clutch and brake in while I was in the turn. Its difficult to think but had no choice. I thought I was going down. I cant say it was skill its was just Luck man. I had visions of sliding into the cars sitting at the light across the lane. And yes I had to go collect my self. The handling of the bike was proven to be greater than my skills. I wish I could say I was in controll but the trueth is I got lucky, D@mn lucky
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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OP
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
please dont turn this into a helmet arguement.Its really about the handling factors of the bikes we love.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,486 Likes: 6
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,486 Likes: 6 |
'04' Black America
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
Quote:
You would be quite dead if it were a hardly you were on loco.Check your pants,,,I smell sumtin.
Dude that is some random $hit you just typed
  (literally)
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 950
Banned
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 950 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You would be quite dead if it were a hardly you were on loco.Check your pants,,,I smell sumtin.
Dude that is some random $hit you just typed
(literally)
It took you THIS long to see that Friar? 
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Indian Larry use to say the optimal rake for a bikes performance is between 32 and 34 degrees. the Americas rake is 33. I am a believer.
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823 |
Quote:
The other day I was riding at a good clip down a town road with some traffic. That seemed to be behaving quite well when the traffic light turned yellow and the cager in front of me decided to stop in the intersection. .
So I had a choice, eat a back bumper sandwich, or try to turn left at 35mph. It was a very nice 90 degree intersection with on coming traffic. I pressed hard on the bars to lean the bike down, squeezed the clutch, and hand brake, and tried not to step to hard on the foot brake.
As I pulled out of the turn I could breath again. I down shifted into second and cruised away as if i knew what I was doing.
Indian Larry use to say the optimal rake for a bikes performance is between 32 and 34 degrees. the Americas rake is 33. I am a believer.
first very glad your ok and that no one was hurt..
rake and trail is what give bikes optimal performance..
now on a chopper/cruiser I do like this rake but it also need the right trail to go with it..for the style bike he build this rake work very well..
on most Performance Sports Bikes 23 to 26 degree rake
so they handle much better ..
Ed 
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
on most Performance Sports Bikes 23 to 26 degree rake
so they handle much better ..
They do, but they don't, and all for the same reason. Sport bikes are inherently instable which makes them more nimble in the hands of an experienced rider. On the other hand, at the slightest lapse of attention, it can bite you. For example, the short rake and trail on the typical sport bike is the reason it is relatively easy to do a "stoppie", which is simply a partial "endo".
As for whether that crash avoidence manouver would have worked on a Harley, chances are about even it would. In spite of being some 130 lb heavier, my Night Train handles nearly as well as my America on pavement.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823 |
Quote:
Quote:
on most Performance Sports Bikes 23 to 26 degree rake
so they handle much better ..
They do, but they don't, and all for the same reason. Sport bikes are inherently instable which makes them more nimble in the hands of an experienced rider. On the other hand, at the slightest lapse of attention, it can bite you. For example, the short rake and trail on the typical sport bike is the reason it is relatively easy to do a "stoppie", which is simply a partial "endo".
As for whether that crash avoidence manouver would have worked on a Harley, chances are about even it would. In spite of being some 130 lb heavier, my Night Train handles nearly as well as my America on pavement.
"They do, but they don't, and all for the same reason. Sport bikes are inherently instable" ??????
sorry but that does not make any sense..my Tiger will blow my TBA away On any road and is much more stable then my TBA hands down..
"On the other hand, at the slightest lapse of attention, it can bite you"
this will happen to you any bike with any rake&trail...
ED
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
sorry but that does not make any sense..my Tiger will blow my TBA away On any road and is much more stable then my TBA hands down..
You must consider that the Tiger is a Triumph, designed with much more attention to rider safety than typical "sport" bikes.
Back in the days of extreme rake and fork lengths, I knew folks who fell asleep and went straight down the road for up to a mile because, at speed, the bikes were very stable. On my America, too much throttle from a stop will result in wheel spin rather than dumping over backward. Too much brake may cause the front wheel to lock and slide out from under, but never cause an endo.
And, it does require a degree of instability to flip-flop a bike through a tight S curve at speed. A cruiser style bike won't do it simply because it is more stable and tends to stand itself up and go straight
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You would be quite dead if it were a hardly you were on loco.Check your pants,,,I smell sumtin.
Dude that is some random $hit you just typed
(literally)
It took you THIS long to see that Friar?
Yeah, and it took me this long to see that. Is that the best you got? 
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823 |
Quote:
Quote:
sorry but that does not make any sense..my Tiger will blow my TBA away On any road and is much more stable then my TBA hands down..
You must consider that the Tiger is a Triumph, designed with much more attention to rider safety than typical "sport" bikes.
Back in the days of extreme rake and fork lengths, I knew folks who fell asleep and went straight down the road for up to a mile because, at speed, the bikes were very stable. On my America, too much throttle from a stop will result in wheel spin rather than dumping over backward. Too much brake may cause the front wheel to lock and slide out from under, but never cause an endo.
And, it does require a degree of instability to flip-flop a bike through a tight S curve at speed. A cruiser style bike won't do it
simply because it is more stable and tends to stand itself up and
go straight
A cruiser can't do it because its not as stable as a sport bike!!!!!!
And that's the bottom line. Go get on any sport bike don't care who makes it will out ride&handle any cruiser .........why??????
Because its more stable!!!!!!!!
Ed
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 428 Likes: 2
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 428 Likes: 2 |
Here ya go Ed, this might explain it to you. bike stabilityThe last paragraph really gets it across. 
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56 |
Sure explains it well Bodger. Big difference between response and stability.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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OP
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
I dont know which one is more stabile all I know is that mine handled a tight turn relatively fast and stood straight up I would have never tried it on purpose. even though i watch the motogp races I think those guys are a little off to get that close to the ground at those speeds now they got helmet cams and that view is wicked.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 428 Likes: 2
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 428 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Sure explains it well Bodger. Big difference between response and stability.
Aye Dog, some folks never get their head round that one.
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823 |
Quote:
Here ya go Ed, this might explain it to you. bike stability
The last paragraph really gets it across.
it say the cruiser is more stable in a strait line ..
and not in the corners.. 
and the sport bike is more stable in the corners does not say the cruiser is the more stable bike.... and when I read it yup the sport bike is the more stable bike over all...
ED
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Motorcycles are purpose built machines. Be your purpose canyon carving, cruising, touring, fire roads, whoops, posing, whatever, you'll find bikes specially built for that purpose. And those type bikes serve their purpose better than one built for a different purpose or even multiple purposes.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2006
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1 |
Have any of you guys tried the counter steering technique. Gentle pressure on the opposite bar to glide around corners. I do this in the dry and works really well, a lot more control but haven't tried this in the wet . In the UK it is wet most of the time. went out today 2 degrees freezzing and rain, the country roads muddy and slippy not a pleasure ride at all. 
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
Have any of you guys tried the counter steering technique. Gentle pressure on the opposite bar to glide around corners.
Counter steering... geeze, I'll have to give that a try!
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823 |
Quote:
Quote:
Have any of you guys tried the counter steering technique. Gentle pressure on the opposite bar to glide around corners.
Counter steering... geeze, I'll have to give that a try!
stanstedbonnie is right 
Ed
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Have any of you guys tried the counter steering technique. Gentle pressure on the opposite bar to glide around corners.
Counter steering... geeze, I'll have to give that a try!
stanstedbonnie is right
Ed
Well, just a slight correction here, Ed....at the moment, stanstedbonnie is "STONE COLD" right!!! 
(btw David, welcome to the forum...oh, and please try to stay warm over there this winter!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
Quote:
Quote:
Have any of you guys tried the counter steering technique. Gentle pressure on the opposite bar to glide around corners.
Counter steering... geeze, I'll have to give that a try!
This forum desperately needs a sarcasm icon.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Have any of you guys tried the counter steering technique. Gentle pressure on the opposite bar to glide around corners.
Counter steering... geeze, I'll have to give that a try!
This forum desperately needs a sarcasm icon.
ya think???
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,931 Likes: 1
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,931 Likes: 1 |
but if you push the bar the opposite way wont you go the way you dont want to go?
we should do this every weekend!
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
but if you push the bar the opposite way wont you go the way you dont want to go?
Gotta say I'm a bit confused after readin' that, Yota!
Nope, NOT about your question, but about the "vast" number of words(19 in total) you just typed there!!!
(...and sooooo, is this REALLY Yota here????)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,931 Likes: 1
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,931 Likes: 1 |
we should do this every weekend!
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Have any of you guys tried the counter steering technique. Gentle pressure on the opposite bar to glide around corners.
Counter steering... geeze, I'll have to give that a try!
This forum desperately needs a sarcasm icon.
Something like:
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
Yeah i s'pose that's a contender. Where did you find him?
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: 33 degree rake
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Somewhere on here: web page
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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