Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech Battery charging issue

Ok so here is where I am for the pending riding season. I was debating trading her in, but I couldn't do it. I love my America. So last year I was having some sort of charging issue. I put on a new tachometer, Triumph brand, last year. So I thought it was a short. I unplugged it and had the same issues. I can ride to work, about 25 miles. No worries runs great. Then about once every 1-3 weeks she just clicks when I leave work after sitting for about 8 hours. No telling when it will happen. Weather does not make a difference. I put it on my charger and don't get a "alternator percentage" read out. I put the same charger on my lawn mower and do get a percentage read out. So my first inclination is stator. But I don't want to just start throwing $150 parts in and hope I hit it right. I have a multimeter, but am honestly and electrical moron. So would appreciate the education on what to test, where to start. What should I do? Regulator bad? What does that thing do anyway? Saw the vault to rewire for better charging..do that? Swap the stator? How do I know if it's bad? And the diagnostic questions begin. Any help would be great. It's still 10 degrees here, so I will be working on her for about another month and have time to play. I'm a good wrencher and can replace any part. Just want to know I'm being smart about it. Thanks guys and gal or two out there.
Brett

I would check all connections and grounds first and take a close look at the plug at the regulator first.

+1 on checking the connections. Intermittent issues point towards a dodgy connection. Then do the direct wiring from the R/R to the battery and direct earth to the battery with heavier gauge wires. You'll get much better charging and battery performance.

Is you bike EFI? If it is then your battery might be hovering around 80% charged. The computer on an EFI bike won't let the bike start if the battery charge falls under 11.6 volts.

I'll give her a good electrical connection once over today.

She is carbed. Last year for it.

Ok my fuse box is a mess. Two 30A fuses labeled battery on the chart. Both wires have cracked insulation. The wire connected to the positive lead going to the battery wire fell out when I pulled the fuse box. The other one goes back to the regulator I am assuming. Follows the main wire harness up under the tank. So do both fuses get connected or is the second a spare? Do the red wires go back into one fuse-both on one? Should I look into doing the regulator rewrite job while I'm at it? I would think this would be a problem as far as charging goes. Right?

While your working on this mess, pull the 30a fuse and check it real close for small burn marks on the metal. I had the same thing happening to me and it was those little burn spots that wasn't allowing the battery to charge properly. Best thing to do is replace the 30a fuse once ya get the wiring sorted.

I was thinking of your post as I was looking through the fuses. It does look at little burned. I'll get a newbie for sure. Thanks for the tip.

Looks like you found your issue.

Ok so I'm going to put on a new fuse clip past the exposed wires. Try to figure out the R/R set up. Or should I black tape the wire and just put in new fuses. Wire looks fine just bad insulation cracked.

How far up the wire is the insulation cracking? Can you slip a shrink sleeve over it? When you re-assemble everything, use No-Ox ( http://www.sanchem.com/aSpecialE.html ) on the connections.

Two good ideas. I'll get some no-ox. Thanks

I've made some good headway. I think the 30A fuse was my problem. I will have to come up with a good way to mount up my fuse box so it is more solid. I put in a new fuse. Got a good connection and I have 12.6 on the battery before starting her. Then at 2000 rpm it moves up to 13.4/6ish. So I am going with the stator is working ok. I want to do the R/R mode but am confused and colorblind as a dog. So the plug connecting to the regulator has 5 wires. From what I can tell orange and two black and two lighter black maybe they have a stripe?? I'll try a pic to add a pic. What ones do I attach in to for the red and black wire as the vault instructions say to the positive and negative battery terminals?
[image]http://www.flickr.com/photos/22654216@N05/12862147794/[/image]
flickr pic

Just checked the circuit diagram for carbed bikes ...

Brown (bottom wire in your pic) goes direct to the positive + terminal on your battery. But you should insert a 30amp fuse and heavy duty fuse carrier in this wire ... Somewhere it is easy to check.

Three middle wires (black with blue stripe) go to the stator ... Really to a connector going to the stator.

(IMPORTANT: Anyone with an EFI bike looking at these wire positions note THE WIRES ARE IN DIFFERENT POSITIONS than for the carbed bikes as detailed here.)

Carbed bikes continued...
Black wire (top in your pic) goes directly to earth (ground) - negative. I can't remember if the earth should go direct to the - negative battery terminal or to the engine earth. Both would be good. The existing earth for the whole loom is on the back of the final drive case (engine) just beside the R/R. Simply connect it to the bolt there. Anyway refer to the older thread for wiring instructions.

The positions of the wires in your pic are as described above. I mean don't worry about trying to tell the difference between the colors. You CAN see the diff in the brown wire and that's +. The middle 3 go to the stator and the remaining wire is the earth. BTW no fuse req on the earth -.

Edit for viewer with EFI bikes follows.

5 wire positions for EFI BIKES ... Wire sequence in connector to R/R:
Brown = positive + to inline fuse to + battery terminal
Black = negative - to earth on engine
Black blue stripe to stator connection any order
Black blue stripe to stator connection any order
Black blue stripe to stator connection any order

Here are my measurements (made 10-25-11) on a 2008 carbed America with no mods, original battery. I used a Fluke and a Greentree VOM. They both agreed.

Before start, Bat 12.4

After start I got 13.1 at idle (1100 rpm) which rose to 14.8 slowly.

The voltage held at 14.8 until revs went to 2500 rpm then the volts dropped and held at 13.7 until 6000 rpms. After the bike was warmed up (short ride) all the measurements were about 2/10ths higher.

I am about to replace my original batt due to age before my upcoming trip to Strawn, Texas. Yabba-dabba-do. I just had to throw that in there.

I will look at the 30 amp fuse though, I think I heard of this once before.

The 30amp fuse is only if you are re-wiring the RR direct to the battery.

Old or new battery will not affect your measurement with engine running. 12.4 on a battery is a minimum level of charge for a lead acid. Lead acid batteries like to be kept above 80% charge (12.5) or their life is greatly shortened.

My Measurements with re-wiring and upgraded MOSFET R/R:
13.2 ignition on not running
14.1 idle
14.4 over 2000 revs.

Great, Richard. You confirmed my understanding of the wiring diagram. Thank you so much guys. I'll run a test and let you know my fluke readings too.

web page

Thanks, gregorz. I picked up the inline fuse today. I have it half done, ran the negative line and battery loop. I would be broke as an electrician by trade.
I have noticed my current 30A fuse wires pull out really easy. Any sage wisdom on that one. Squeeze the connectors tighter?

Ok here is where I am:

On not running 12.6
2k rpm 14.4
Idle 12.8

I think I'll get a new battery. This is my original one from 08. So I think that will help.

Any other insights? Think I'm ok now?

2,000 RPM looks good but idle looks a little low.

That's what I was thinking Ian. So new battery is a good start right? Or is that stator?

Well 6 years is a good life span for a battery so could be the problem, that being said I got 9 years out of mine and I have seen other get even more so I would have it tested before replacement.

^^^ yeah! What is the reading resting 1 hr after full charge? Because if it's 12.6 you have only about 70% charge capacity and it's pretty much at the end of its life. Do the rewire mod whether or not you get a new battery.

I'd say it was off the charger for about a day when I got the 12.6 reading. So it sounds like she might be one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. I'll stop and get a new one tomorrow. I got it all wired up and put back together.

This talk of state of charge, wonder how my new Wal Mart battery handled this winter. Been below 0 F here a good part of the winter.

I own a battery tender, 2 actually just don't use them. I do have one on the Goldwing that I just start once in a while.

My experience has been that a battery should be about 12.5 VDC with key off or when idling. When you raise engine speed to 4K or so, should be 14.5 VDC.

To check the electrical system, best way is to first get bike started and disconnect the three wires from the stator and measure AC voltage across them in pairs; that is A&B, A&C and then B&C. A shop manual will give you an expected value but it is like 40 VAC per leg and all legs should be about the same.

Then check your regulator/rectifier by measuring voltage at the battery at idle and 4K rpm. As noted, if it is working fine, should be nominally 12VDC at idle and 14.5VDC at 4.5 RPM.... if it is less, battery won't charge; if more battery will boil (over 16 VDC at speed).

Then you can check your batter with a hydrometer if it is a wet cell battery. They sell small ones at any autoparts store and they need to be small to accommodate the small hose you put on the end and stick in the cell... You draw out a little fluid and there are colored balls in the clear part of the hydrometer. These tell you the condition of the battery and if all float, the cell is healthy and is some or none float, it isn't. If you find a bad cell, get a new battery. If you have a maintenance free battery, any autoparts store will be happy to load test it and tell you if it is healthy.

A good preventive maintenance tool is a voltage gauge which can be hooked to the battery or a hot wire on the bike. KuryAkyn makes a nice little gauge that uses LEDs to tell you what voltage your bike is making and is a great way to monitor charging system health on the fly.

My mechanical experience comes from years wrenching on Japanese bikes; especially vintage bikes so values may vary a bit but 12 plus VDC at idle and 14.5 at 4K rpm are normal for most any bike. The higher voltage is regulated by your regulator/rectifier and must be this high to keep the battery charged... if the bike runs at 12VDC at speed, there isn't enough positive potential to charge the battery. BTW: I am a professional mechanic BUT don't really know Triumphs well as I have just owned and not really done any serious wrenching so the values Richard gave may be true for a BA but the principle is the same. BTW: If you live upside-down, will voltage values still be the same? Bwhahaha

Well I defer to your experience George. Much more than mine. Also you may not be aware I have an upgraded MOSFET RR, upgraded wiring and a Shorai LiFePo battery, so I'll be getting better results than most.

Well now...my bike would not start this past weekend, after a 6 mile ride...I briefly turned the bike off, & on restart got a s-l-o-w partial crank, followed by the dreaded click-click-click-click. Damn.

Called the wife to bring a jump pack. At least it was a nice late afternoon while I waited.

When I got the bike home I swapped in a new, fully charged battery. The original battery was over 7 years old, so no big deal, right? I mean, not everone can have the battery life of Ian

Well...I expected to have some joy, but no...over 3 grand voltage was falling off into the 12's. Bummer.

Sooo...I checked the various charging circuit connectors (stator into main harness, R/R, fuses, & other readily accessible connectors), checked the main ground connection, checked stator resistance (infinite), & all appeared OK.

That leaves the regulator as the prime suspect. I'm going to order a replacement, probabaly a Rick's mos-fet. We'll see.

Was it the RR Ken? Sounds a lot like mine. Finally got this fixed and picked up a nail in my new back tire. Oh well it's only money.