 Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Went to start up the bike and the battery was barely cranking. (Been a while since I've started it).
So I stuck the battery on charge overnight. Went to start it the next day, it slowly cranked for a second, then all I heard was the starter Whizzing away and no engine turn.
The whizzing was still slow like the battery is dead, but is this the sound I dont want to hear?
Does this mean my casing broke holding the starter gear?
Wheres that thread at?
Any other CHEAPER ideas of what it could be? I really like to put a fresh battery in and see what happens. But something tells me the starter shouldnt be turning that "free". Right?
Thanks
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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I don't know if this is true on bikes, but my experience has been that if the battery is close to dead (or doesn't have a good connection) it won't have enough juice to spin the starter dog with enough force to make it engage the flywheel. If you took the battery off to charge it, it might not have a good connection.
If that's not the case, it could be a bad starter, broken teeth on the dog or flywheel, wiring, etc.
Live in the sunshine, drink the wild air... - Emerson
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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I removed the wires from the terminals to charge it. Its possible I didnt tighten down the screws all the way. Are you saying that if the starter couldnt turn, it releases from the flywheel and spins loosely?
Theres a defect on some of the older models, where part of the casing that holds the starter gear cracks. And you hear the starter free of the load, just spins. This is what I'm affraid of. I just cant understand why it broke now with a half charged battery. Possibly too cold?
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Stickman Yogi
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I think you're okay, Tom. The cracked crankcase problem had occurred for some (most?) when ya get a huge backfire at the time of starting. In your case it sounds more like a low battery. Have you put a voltmeter on the battery just to see? Meanwhile, here's a long thread on the topic of cracked cases. http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/forums/...part=1&vc=1
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Learned Hand
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Are you sure it is the starter making that noise, and not the starter relay.
Tom
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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I just assumed it was the starter spinning. What sound would the starter relay make?
So I'm clear, is the starter relay the "solenoid" mounted to the side of the airbox?
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Quote:
I think you're okay, Tom. The cracked crankcase problem had occurred for some (most?) when ya get a huge backfire at the time of starting. In your case it sounds more like a low battery. Have you put a voltmeter on the battery just to see?
Meanwhile, here's a long thread on the topic of cracked cases.
http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/forums/...part=1&vc=1
Thanks for that Keith. I hope youre right. I just dont dont get why I'm hearing the starter spin.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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It could be maybe the grease on the helix?(the shaft where the starter gear spins out from) could be cold and holding the gear back? 
'04' Black America
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Quote:
So I'm clear, is the starter relay the "solenoid" mounted to the side of the airbox?
Yes..
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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alright, so that solenoid makes a whizzing sound like a a starter spinning freely?
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Quote:
It could be maybe the grease on the helix?(the shaft where the starter gear spins out from) could be cold and holding the gear back?
If it was holding the gear back, wouldnt it grind or not spin at all? Why would the starter spin freely?
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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The starter gear "kicks out" and engages to the gear (the one that breaks the case). The grease could be to cold to allow the starter gear kick out and engage the other gear. Something like some Chevy starters with a frozen soleniod.
'04' Black America
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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oh yeah?...okay, I was thinking the gears always touched.
Thats good to know...
Now does the solenoid "kick" that gear over too? So the battery being half dead wont let the solenoid kick over fully?
So in theory I could stick a small heater out in the shed for a little while, stick a new battery in and see whats what?
I'm hoping, cause I really cant remember having a backfire at startup EVER.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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The starters that have the solenoids mounted on the starters help kick the gear out, the the starters that have the solenoids mounted else where use the speed of the gear spinning to slide on the helix and engage the starter.
'04' Black America
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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The starter gear is always engaged. It does not move back and forth like a regular automotive starter.
Where is the noise you hear coming from that sounds like the starter spinning? If it is coming from the starter itself, then it is probably spinning. Coming from the side cover, it is the solenoid.
If the starter is spinning freely, it usually isn't good. Could be the;
1. failed sprag clutch on the hub/gear assembly
2. broken housing for the starter idler gear
3. broken teeth on one of the gears.
Make sure your battery is good. Hook up a charger to it directly. If that doesn't work, you might have to pull the side cover off to check the starter drive mechanism. If you do pull the starter, engine oil will come out.
Good luck.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Thanks for posting Gregger. I seen you had a problem with the sprag clutch before? How did that go with repairs?
The noise I thought I heard was definately coming from in front of me where the starter is. Because I have the solenoid moved to under the seat (battery relocation). I had the seat off so that wouldve been right there making noise.
I guess I'll go buy a new battery and see what happens first. I think its my 4th year on that battery without any charging during the winter so I had a good run with it.
Is it possible that my solenoid has gone bad? I always wondered about it since its been relocated under the seat with very little room. What would be the symptoms?
thanks
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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If the starter is always engaged, then it will/should always be spinning??? no??? 
'04' Black America
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Quote:
solenoids mounted else where use the speed of the gear spinning to slide on the helix and engage the starter.
So is this still a possibilty then? It makes sense that if the gears were always engaged, the backfire would kick that gear back and break the casing. No?
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Think that Joe has summed it up. Your battery does not have enough grunt to engage the starter pinion with the ring gear so it just spins insitu. Your relay will sound like a chattering or clicking noise as the contacts close and seperate as there is not sufficient power going to the coil to hold them together. Your battery may have sulphated if left for enough time-over about 8 to 10 weeks watch out as you could be in for a new battery! 
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Well Tom, I guest I would put some heat in your shed, charge the battery and rock the bike in gear (to move the gear,if it has a chipped tooth)and see if you have any luck. fingers crossed
'04' Black America
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Does it start if you clutch start it?
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Stickman Yogi
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Once again, I would sure as heck wanna take a voltmeter to that battery.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Quote:
Think that Joe has summed it up. Your battery does not have enough grunt to engage the starter pinion with the ring gear so it just spins insitu. Your relay will sound like a chattering or clicking noise as the contacts close and seperate as there is not sufficient power going to the coil to hold them together. Your battery may have sulphated if left for enough time-over about 8 to 10 weeks watch out as you could be in for a new battery!
To state it again....the starter gear does not move back and forth against any ring gear. The starter drives an idler gear which meshes with another gear which has an integrated sprag clutch. This gear is in constant contact with the crank through the main clutch. When the engine is running the sprag clutch prevents the whole gear train from spinning backwards all the way to the starter but when the starter is activated it spins the whole gear train starting the engine.
As Keith stated....put a voltmeter across the battery and let us know what the voltage is when the starter is activated.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Second Wind
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Like everyone else here I think its your battery
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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I just read the last fellow that had the same problem with a spinning starter and all he had a bad connection at his battery. I think the combination of a cold stiff engine and a slow cranking starter could cause the sprag to slip into a kind of neutral position (I've never seen it). This was the only explanation we could think of the last time it happened. Check your battery connections, then check the battery. Look for the simple things first. Read This Thread
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Fe Butt
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Unusual for the sprag clutch not to catch in cold weatherm hope that is the problem and not the broken cases. I dread that issue as we have 2 04s and not sure how long Triumph would do a good will fix on those.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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You can pull the starter itself and check to see if it's spinning
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Thanks for your help fellas. Just read that other thread Gregger, and I'm feeling good right now. Saxtron replaced his battery cable in the end. I definately felt some tension in those cables cause they were so frozen. I'll be checking the volts tonight, hopefully it will just be the battery. Ive really been lax on keeping that thing on the trickle charger. I seen this pic in the other thread. It scared me like those STD pictures in health class..haha 
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Check the frame ground point as well
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Fe Butt
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But those STD pictures didn't stop you from the fun, did it? 
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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wheres that ground point at again?
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Ian theres nothing fun about syphilis....haha.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Stickman Yogi
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Quote:
wheres that ground point at again?
If ya follow the negative lead on the battery it will lead to a spot on the frame right in front of the rear tire.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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thanks, its been a while since Ive played with those wires.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Hey Tom, did you get it sorted? Inquiring minds want to know! 
Live in the sunshine, drink the wild air... - Emerson
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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When my case broke Tom it didn't do sh7t no spinning no clicking,nothin.I think most those problems were in early 05 models,good luck,sounds like a power problem to me too.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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sorry fellas, the snow here has been keeping me far from the shed at the moment. I dont have a light in there yet either so its limited to weekend daylight. Which is hard to come by.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Complete Newb
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G'Day Tom.
I had a starter problem a few years back, it was broken teeth on the idler gear. I got my bike second hand so I don't know its full history.
I would pull the starter & check pinion gear, idler & then the sprag clutch. Good luck,let us know.
Also, what is snow? Its been 90 degree plus for a week here.
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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PRAISE THE LORD!
Had some extra time/money and a 55 degree day, and BAM...new battery, installed, she fired right up.
so yes, a whirring sound can be just a dead battery.
Ran like a champ yesterday too, I was nervous cause I hadnt been able to start it for a while.
Thanks for the help everyone
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Re: Starter is Whizzing Away....IS IT WHAT I THINK?
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Stickman Yogi
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Live to love, love to live.
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