 Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Thruxton vs. TBS. Let's hear it.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
I tried the TBS needles and felt they didn't really help me in the middle range so I sent them to Iceman; then I put in a set Thrux needles and I'm not really interested in going back. The bike pulls strong and hard from idle to WOT and is very smooth; at last my butt dyno doesn't feel any dips. I'm running the stock airbox with a K&N filter and this home-made bellmouth:  42 pilots and 125 mains, gasses exit through set of Specialty Spare Long Cannons. It runs 75-80 on the Interstate with ease at 4-4.5K rpm (18 tooth front sprocket), will pass anything in a heartbeat and averages 45-48 MPG.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416 |
I wrote in another thread that I just this morning put in a pair of Thruxton needles. The bike flies! I have no idea what happened to the A/F mix, but the feel put a big smile on my face. Today's second ride confirmed it. However I'm also waiting for a pair of Factory Pro needles (the ones that gave Ramsound his fantastic dyno numbers). We'll see if they are even better...
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5 |
I want to get a set to try, everything I've read says they perform better.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I want to get a set to try, everything I've read says they perform better.
Do it, then try to wipe the grin off your face 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
It's sounding like I might have to give them a try myself. I have noticed a bit of a flat spot in the mid-range.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5 |
I want my mid range dip to go away. We'll see what they improve on the bored carbs with a dyno. 
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61 |
I tried TBS needles and went back to the stock ones. Haven;t tried the Thruxtons yet
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Still running TBSs but never tried the Thruxs. Intend on trying them when I get my hands on some hopefully within the next couple of weeks. Should be at the dealership in Ottawa then.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,174 Likes: 15
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,174 Likes: 15 |
I am happy with the thruxton needles, they seem to be more even in the mid power range than the SM needles
05 speedmaster - 1100cc, 11:1 racing pistons, Carillo rods, thunderbike cams, ported and polished head, 2mm over intake and exhaust valves, Barnett kevlar clutch, scepter pipes, oversize manifolds, 45mm HSR's, TTP stage 4 firestarter
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Pardon my ignorance but what is a TBS needle?
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 198
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 198 |
Ive been considering changing needles. After reading this it sounds like the thruxton ones are the way to go. Is the dealer the best source? Part #'s? Cost? Anything else that should be done or replaced while the top of the carb is off?
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Thank you, feel smarter already.
Ummm, come to think of it, the dealer put in new needles when I got my bike dyno tuned in June. They came with the dynojet kit along with the 124 mains. I'm not a techy but I suppose they coulda contributed to the 10 hp increase from that tune? Any feedback on that?
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416 |
#T1245031 and yes, your dealer can get them for you. While you have the carb top off you can drill the slide or change into lighter carb springs (Kaw). Do a search and you'll find all the info you want. Hope this helps!
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 286
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 286 |
I've tried a lot of different combinations on my bike (drilled airbox, short TORs, #125 main) but what I found out was that Thrux needles were a little richer than TBS. If you never changed out the stock pilot jet and only went up on the main jet, either Thrux or TBS needles can fix the mid-range flat spot nicely. If you went up on the pilot jet, (say to the #45 pilot) the Thrux and TBS needles will probably be too rich. After running with TBS and then Thrux needles, I finally changed to the #45 pilot and then had to go back to a shimmed stock needle. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5 |
My Thruxie needles will be here next week!
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 23
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 23 |
There are 2 diferent needles 790, 865 cc. im running 865 type NBZT. still tweaking it. Went to 46 pilot, no shims, 144 mains. biggest difference is now instead of rpm launching at 2500ish. its around the 2000 range. and lot more torquey.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Yes indeed, the 790 Thrux is a NBTZ and the 865 Thrux is NBZT. I'm running the NBTZ in my 790 America with good results. My seat-of-the-pants guess is that you should match the needle to your engine's displacement for best results. In Dave's big bore case I believe the NBZT will give the very best results.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 122
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 122 |
Well, to confuse the issue on an even higher level I checked with Bike Bandit and found at least 5 different needles for the Thruxton, T100, Speedmaster/america and Scrambler. So I suppose that if you have an 904 and like the top end go for the latest Thruxton needles and if you like low end torque try the Scrambler needles. At least the needles are cheap to experiment with.
Hasse
Last edited by Hasse; 08/11/2009 8:25 AM.
Hasse TBA -02 Pre-Fire Cardinal Red, Wiseco 904, Thunderbike pipes, Freak
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Well, to confuse the issue on an even higher level I checked with Bike Bandit and found at least 5 different needles for the Thruxton, T100, Speedmaster/america and Scrambler.
Quite true. Added into the mix you also have: NAGB, stock 790 Bonnie thru 2005; NFCD from 2006. NBAD, stock 790 America and Speedy; NBZY stock 856 Speedy. N3RL stock 865 Scrambler. Choices, choices, choices...
I only wonder how long it will be before someone tries a Scram needle in a big bore to test the low end torque.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Will ya'll just STOP! I'm getting NBTZ's for my 05 BA, thats that, and your just mak'in my head start to spin! 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
Will ya'll just STOP!
I'm getting NBTZ's for my 05 BA...
Are ya sure ? 
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
damng it...now I had to order a set of NBZTs...they sound too good.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
I went from stock 865 needles shimmed 1mm to Thrux needles shimmed .46mm & the improvement in midrange response was remarkable. NBZT for me.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5 |
I hope I got the NBZT coming and not the NBTZ. I just had my dealer order 2 Thruxton needles. I guess tomorrow I should call and see which ones are coming.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 23
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 23 |
OH yeah just in case some people dont know, if in all this needle excitement the jets need to be changed remember, there is no standard in making jets the numbers 42, 46, 130, 140 are not the same in different manufacturers. if you got stock keihins and your going up or down sizes GET a KEIHIN jet. otherwise you might be chasing your tail.
another topic all together.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5 |
Picked up my needles today, I'm going to install them tomorrow and report back. Going from stock needle with 2 shims to Thruxton no shim. Not sure yet if I will drop back a size from 45 to 42 pilot.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5 |
Put in the Thruxton needles today. I have to admit, they feel better in the mid-range and the roll on acceleration is much improved. I would like to put it on a dyno again now to see if I'm still rich at cruising rpm, and to see if the mid-range richness is gone or at least better than it was. It also seems to be a little better right off the line, I had a slight lag in my acceleration, but maybe it's in my mind. It seems that when summer came and it got hot it started running differently than when I had it set up in the cooler weather. Anyway, they are in and I like them so far, so they stay in. 
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 410
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 410 |
Leave the pilots at 45... just my opinion as Im running them and its running great.. 1.5 turns out on the airscrew 
TrOjAn
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,493 Likes: 6
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,493 Likes: 6 |
I have to try it( the needles) w/o a shim, right now I have drilled slide w/ Kawi springs and NBZT needles w/ one shim.It pulls strong right now but it's something to try.
'04' Black America
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5 |
For anyone who actually wants to see the difference, the Thruxton needle is longer and thinner than the America needle. 
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 122
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 122 |
And here are all three! From above - TBS, Thruxton and America. As you can notice the TBS is longer and thinner then the Thruxton. But it has the same tapering, as far as I can make out.  A curious question; Anybody knows exactly which part of the needle that is working at 4 000 rpm? Is it still on the parallel part or on the tapering part? Hasse
Hasse TBA -02 Pre-Fire Cardinal Red, Wiseco 904, Thunderbike pipes, Freak
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Almost have to measure the thickness in say, 1/8 increments and compare between the three needles. The top of the needle would be the starting point.
Question, does the needle come right out of the needle jet at WOT?
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
...Question, does the needle come right out of the needle jet at WOT?
If you mean when the slide is fully up, is the tip of the needle exposed out of the lower tube in the carb bore that the needle rides in , then no.
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 122
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 122 |
My own measurement of the three needles are
Diameter: TBS 2.46 mm, Thruxton 2.47 mm, America 2.49 mm
Length of parallel part TBS 22 mm, Thruxton 21 mm, America 20 mm.
Tip of the needle diameter TBS 1.65 mm, Thruxton 1.65 mm, America 1.94 mm
Hasse
Hasse TBA -02 Pre-Fire Cardinal Red, Wiseco 904, Thunderbike pipes, Freak
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
I remembered on Friday that I had actually ordered a set of these I picked em up and installed them a bit ago. Of course I immediatly took her out for a spin. Local roads, some freeway, some 15-35mph twistys and back home. I cant say the difference was overwhelming but I did notice that on full throttle getting onto the fwy there was no flat spot. Previously it was minimal but not bad. Today was like someone was pushing me. I did also get a chance to get her into 5th gear and drop the rpms down to about 2500-3000 (I was on the fwy, slow lane, no traffic behind me). The diff here was that letting the RPMs drop that far down would normally allow a significant lag, what I always assumed was the "flat spot", was gone. The RPMs rose steadily without downshifting. Not to say theres more power, more so the RPMs rise steadily. Heck...if it did that then it was worth $14 and a few minutes of work.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Needles... Which is better?
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 85
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 85 |
Quote:
I tried the TBS needles and felt they didn't really help me in the middle range so I sent them to Iceman; then I put in a set Thrux needles and I'm not really interested in going back. The bike pulls strong and hard from idle to WOT and is very smooth; at last my butt dyno doesn't feel any dips. I'm running the stock airbox with a K&N filter and this home-made bellmouth:
42 pilots and 125 mains, gasses exit through set of Specialty Spare Long Cannons. It runs 75-80 on the Interstate with ease at 4-4.5K rpm (18 tooth front sprocket), will pass anything in a heartbeat and averages 45-48 MPG.
I can't wait to try this setup. Mine sounds like it will identical to yours.
2007 Speedmaster w/ SS Long Slash Cuts, K&N, Polaris Bellmouth, and AI Removed
132/42/2.0 Turns Out/No Shims
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