Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Custom Corner 865cc EFI MOTOR INTO 790cc Frame?

Honestly, and the Georgia Rally crew knows his well, I can't say "I finally crashed", as I went down 3 times, and off the road 2 of those times in 3 trips over there. (And I fell asleep in the saddle and dropped it in Chy's driveway one afternoon, for the 3rd ) But the bike hardly shows any evidence of any of that.

Well after 106K hard miles on the '04, and a punctured oil filter incident 4K miles ago, that I think must have gotten a bearing or something, she's tired. She's rideable, but sick, in my opinion, and once she gets hot, it's impossible to find Neutral. She runs okay when moving, but seems to lose all oil pressure at idle. Probably down on power, too.

I picked up this '09 almost 3 years ago, with only 6K miles on her, and I've been riding both when I've been riding, but my annual mileage has fallen from 10K miles/year for over 10 years after I bought the '04 new in June, 2004, to closer to 2K mikes last year. My annual riding miles took a nosedive. Back surgeries, unemployment, no serious place to go...new job, lack of vacation time. But the desire is still strong.

A week ago Wednesday I failed to navigate an exit ramp off an HOV lane I had no intention of exiting at the time. Caught in the wrong lane, I panicked and locked my eyes and my brakes up on the fast-approaching barrels and retaining wall, and I laid the 2009 bike down before hitting the barrels. Doing about 60, I should have easily navigated the exit, but panic prevailed. I'm okay. Insurance totaled the bike.

With only 13K miles on the '09, she's remarkably unscathed, except for needing a fork, tank, headlight, light bar, and right front peg - and maybe a frame, as it appears to be tweaked at the steering head stop.

I do not want to scrap her to insurance, as that's a win/win for the scrap yard. There's not a scratch on either fender, sidecover, or the motor. The Willie and Max saddle bags did a job(as did my leather chaps, boots, shirt, helmet and gloves). The chrome Triumph triangle crash bars did their job, too. The motor is totally unscathed.

What would keep this motor, from the 2009 Speedmaster, from going into the 2004 Speedmaster? SURELY SOMEBODY ELSE HAS DONE THIS ALREADY???

Any pitfalls or surprises?

It goes without saying I'm lucky to be okay. Bumps and bruises, yes, and of all things, the only broken bone was the tip-end of my left thumb. Heavy, thick leather knee chaps from LeatherLeg.net - really saved my bacon, as did my Red Wing Iron Ranger boots. I'd be more comfortable now if I had worn a proper riding jacket with appropriate back, elbow and shoulder pads, but after 10 days, I'm all healed up but for a internally sore right shoulder blade. No bruising there, but I may have torn something.

Always wear your gear.

And bump your insurance accessories coverage. I was under-insured before ever getting to the helmet, gloves, boots, chaps, and riding shirt. All non-stock accessories are that - accessories - even if Triumph parts. Touring seat, pipes, light bar, rocker shifter, sissy bar and rack....all counted towards that accessory coverage and it cost me several hundred dollars. Likely cost me $1000-$1500 or more, being under-insured.

Oh, yeah - you have to be carrying full-coverage insurance to begin with, and I had almost dropped mine.

Sorry about your bike and crash, glad you're ok. do you plan to run the EFI in the '04 or just the motor on carbs? I would think that the motor would be just fine on carbs, the spark comes from the ignitor via the coil, the fuel delivery and compression does the rest. Simplicity is suck, squeeze, bang, blow. Motor should be the same, differences are the bolt on bits like throttle bodies and brain box

Glad you're ok.
I don't know about the frame.I hope it's possible for you.

Wowzer Keith, glad to hear you are ok. Things can happen quickly and as long time riders we let instinct take over and make the right choice. It's a thin line and somethings the choice we take may not be ideal. Again glad you're ok.

I would think if the mounting pattern and the offset are similar the swap would be doable. It's a matter of having both engines out of the frames to check measurements. I would wager it's a direct fit.

I never even considered running carbs on the '09 engine. More to think about.

It won't be me doing it, and it won't be a dealership. I guess my preference might be to move the EFI over too, but there may be pros and cons either way.

EFI means mounting a new-style tank and fuel pump, though, and that might be more problematic than the motor itself.

Sticking with carbs and the old tank might require some re-jetting, but that's easy enough.

I appreciate the input!

I would use the carbs as well, I like them better and it would make the swap easier. I have an 865 sitting on the floor for a project I hope to start soon and I see no reason it wouldn't be a direct swap for my 790 if I ever wanted to (I don't).I plan to run carbs on it in my project. I am still in the process of getting my new shop together, hard to do being on call 24hrs 3 days a week. I would upgrade the carbs while you are at it if you can find the cash. Not sure I would swap your cams given the oil issue and mileage. If you do have them inspected closely.

I have a new style tank that you can use to check for fitment if you are interested.

I sold a 2006 SM frame to a guy with a non repairable write off EFI 2014 SM (smoke damaged with 1200km on the clock), he swapped everything from the 2014 straight to the 2006 frame, it all fits even the tank, seeing as a 2004 and a 2006 has only a different CC and CDI unit, I cant see why a 2009 EFI wont fit the 2004 SM

All great information. Exactly what I needed, and what I hoped to learn and confirm.

One of the best features of that 790 motor is the cam. I'm not expert enough to say, and can not remember, whether or not that cam was exclusive to the Speedmaster, or common in both models, but without a doubt, it did make it very fun to ride. I don't know if a similar cam profile is available for the 865 motor, and I wouldn't have ever considered changing cams in the 2009, as it was. It seemed to be adequate as it was. Whether or not that 865 motor with carbs is noticeably different than the 865 with EFI, time will tell. I'm sure I'll get used to it, either way.

I'm still looking at the 865 motor as a "loaner". Once I get the 790 out, we will sort out what's wrong with it, and ultimately, I'd like to put it back in where it belongs.

I could get another bike, but the wife and I wouldn't likely agree on what that might be. A big, honkin' Barca-lounger is not on my horizon.

I'm excited to see what Triumph introduces this Fall in the way of new Bonneville-engined cruisers, though, and certainly won't buy anything before they come out next year, anyway. If I ever do buy anything new again. The 2004 might just be the one and only one I'll ever need.

I expect you will have more trouble with the fuel pump/tank than with swapping the engine.

But then, as Racer Brown once said, with a torch and a big enough hammer, you can fit any engine anywhere.

HOLD THE PHONE

My 790 motor in the '04 is fine. Nothing more than gummy carbs, not wanting to idle, making me think it was dropping oil pressure. Fixed with a fair amount of SeaFoam, and a splash of BG 44K in the tank. Good to go.

The '09 had a bent upper fork shroud, and a tweaked steering head stop. Barely. Not a scratch on either fender, thanks to triangle crash bars and Willie and Max saddlebags (even they're okay). It did waste the tank, the Summer Screen, light bar (just one head), and the front rim of the headlight.

So that bike is now a Thruxton-tank bobber-project, with black powder-coated forks, triple trees, fender struts, headlight - even the back of the speedometer housing. Solo seat.

Hemmi Orange.

Moving the foot controls back 4" with the help of Norman Hyde.

The Sta-In-Tunes survived, with barely a scrape...

Converted headlight to LED unit with turn signals built in.

Bobbed the rear fender for a Lucas-style tail lamp.

I may miss the saddle bags and Summer Screen, but I've still got the '04 for getting out of town on.

Life ain't all bad!

Keith,
Regarding the cams you mention, I was talking to member MastaN about 10 years ago and he had done a straight swap on his 865 Speedy with cams from a 790cc.
He reckoned it was the best single performance upgrade he had ever done (his words).
I don't know if it makes a differece in any way but just mind they were both carbed models.
Hope this helps.