Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums The Vault EFI Tuning and Performance

Should an EFI bike have symptoms of a snatchy/grabby throttle, there is a simple fix. A Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) reset may be required.

A TPS reset is also required if a new tune has been loaded into the ECU.

Using TuneECU (from www.tuneecu.com):

This is done with TuneECU running. The bike is started and idled for a few minutes to do this.

ECU Reset TPS is selected in TuneECU, and then the engine is started. Let the engine idle until the “TPS” status indicator (in the status bar) changes to green (after 10 to 15 minutes). No throttle input must be used during this process!

Some other symptoms that can cause a snatchy throttle is chain slack, and incorrectly adjusted throttle cables.

On my test run today, I can certainly say that the smoothness of the throttle is back, and the transition from off to on is near perfect.

By hyates (03/20/11 06:20 PM)

full thread

Hi Folks. I've been studying this topic for a bit, and thought I'd share my research.

Yes, the AI can be removed in much the same manner as the carb models. Just don't remove any hoses from the throttle bodies!

TuneECU can be used to disable the MIL engine light if the AI electic solenoid is removed. So far so good.

The doubtful point is dependent on what market your bike has been made for. EFI bikes have oxygen sensors in each header pipe. They can be disabled in TuneECU as well. It is recommended to remove the O2 sensors and install a plug if you are going to disable them. O2 sensor plugs: M12x1.25 pitch.

The gotcha is for those of us that have catalytic converters in the header pipes. From my reading, the North American headers and exhaust pipes have the catalyzers.

If the AI is removed, it will be putting out a richer air/fuel ratio which will eventually plug up the catalyzers.

It is fair easy to tell if the exhaust pipes have the cats in them. Look for this weld seam:



I just put on long TORS on my 2010, and it has the cats in them as well, and is a 'see through pipe'.

So, in conclusion, it might be more of a problem to remove the AI from EFI models. My personal take is to sit this one out and see. I should state that not too many people with EFI bikes seemed to be concerned over this, just me

For an in-depth read on this topic, please go here

Please note that with the advent of TuneECU, the use of a resistor to fool the ECU is NOT REQUIRED. The thread above has been updated to reflect that.

I should also add that I'm no expert here. I'm just trying to relay this information to this group. If I've missed something, please share.

H.

By hyates (03/20/11 11:42 AM)

full thread

Hi Folks. Changing exhaust on EFI bikes requires remapping of the ECU to adjust the fuel map. This is known as a 'tune'.

My 2010 Speedmaster came with a 20183 tune. This is the stock tune for a Speedmaster/America with with mechanical speedometer. The LCD/Electronic speedometer models have different tunes.

For modded or aftermarket pipes my 2010 requires the 20184 tune. This will richen the mixture a bit to compensate for the loss in backpressure and reduce popping.

I used TuneECU to do this work here

To read the existing fuel map here

First, you must read the map which can take about 20 minutes. The engine is off, but the ignition is on. There is NO separate fuse for the headlight on the Speedmaster, so it is imperative to have a fully charged battery and it have it plugged into a charger or disconnect the headlight bulb.

Once the map has been read in, you can save it to your computer.

The next step is DOWNLOAD a tune into the ECU. This goes much quicker than the read. It takes just a few seconds to to this.

Once this is done, the throttle position sensor (TPS) needs to be reset. This is done with TuneECU running. The bike is started and idled for a few minutes to do this.

ECU Reset TPS is selected in TuneECU, and then the engine is started. Let the engine idle until the “TPS” status indicator (in the status bar) changes to green (after 10 to 15 minutes). No throttle input must be used during this process!

Tunes are available here

To do this job you need a notebook or netbook computer running Windows XP or better. I use a small netbook.

For data cable and system requirment specs here

TuneECU has been developed privately, and is available at no charge by the developer. I believe that you can donate to the cause if you wish on his website.

I hope this note points those with EFI bikes in the right direction.

Hyates

full thread

I'll start off with my standard disclaimer by saying that I did not do all this work by myself. I have perused some websites, and gathered up this information to put in one place. As with anything, your mileage may vary, but from my research, this is what I've gathered:

This may also be known as a compression or push start. On an EFI bike, you MIGHT be able to bump start succesfully, but not guaranteed. Why the doubt? Well, you still need a battery that has some charge to it.

When the ignition key is turned on, the ECU, and it's various sensors get energized, the headlight and tail light comes on, and the fuel pump primes the fuel system. To do this it takes an 8.5 amp load from the battery. Once the fuel pump has stopped, and the fuel system is at prime, the electrical load is reduced to 5.64 amps. So, your battery can't be completely dead or you'll be calling for help.

Assuming that the battery has enough strength to actually get to priming the fuel system, you can try and bump start the bike. It's pretty much a no-win if the battery is too weak to prime the fuel system. Keep in mind that the headlight and tail light is contributing to a constant current draw. Normally, when the starter button is used, the headlight will cut-out while the engine is cranking. This isn't the case here.

The art of bump-starting a bike is pretty simple.

1. Make sure that you have fuel
2. Ensure that the Kill Switch is in the RUN position
3. Put the transmission in a taller gear like third
4. Pull the fast idle control (choke knob) to the first position unless the motor is hot
5. Turn on the ignition, and hold in the clutch
6. Go for it! Either have some buddies pushing you or go down a hill
7. When you get up to at least 15 km/h (10 mph), quickly release the clutch. Beware of the back wheel locking up, and if the engine doesn't turn over or start, be ready to pull in the clutch to maintain control.
8. If its your lucky day, and the engine fires, apply throttle and pull in the clutch
9. The engine may want to stall as the stator/alternator is pulling a big load trying to charge the battery, so keep the throttle going.
10. It can take approximately 20 minutes to get the battery charged to the point that the bike can idle on its own. Please note that the battery is NOT fully charged at this point and shutting down the engine may repeat a no-start situation.
11. Go for a LONG ride (with backup friends, and/or cell phone) or put the bike on a proper charger.

For those that think that you could generate enough electrical power by simply bump starting the bike to cause the fuel pump to work would be extremely dangerous and the ECU, relays and fuel pump need a constant source of power.

The battery on these EFI bikes needs to have a voltage of more than 12.6 volts to start. Some bikes have required nearly 13.0 volts. Take care of your battery.

You can go around the low battery cut out by shorting the two terminals on the starter solenoid that lives behind the RH side cover. This would work if your battery may be strong enough to prime the fuel system, but be below 12.6 volts. NOTE: that by doing doing, all safety controls are also bypassed . So. kickstand switch, clutch switch, neutral switch, etc are bypassed, so make sure the bike is in neutral first!

Here's a picture of the starter solenoid. Bridging the two terminals with the red arrows will enable the bike to start.



By hyates

full thread

I'll start off by saying that I did not do all this work by myself. I have perused some websites, and gathered up this information to put in one place. As with anything, your mileage may vary, but from my research, this is what I've gathered:

For bikes with carbs, battery care is minimal. Clean the terminals, keep the connectors tight, and if you're type-A like me, use some dielectric grease. Never keep them discharged, and they will treat you well. Batteries in these bikes can last for many years with recent reports up to 9 years. Some folks don't even bother keeping them on a battery tender while in storage.

The standard battery in the carburetted America and Speedmaster is a Yuasa YTX12-BS. The EFI America and Speedmaster has a Yuasa YT12B-BS. This battery is about a 0.7 inches narrower as it shares the battery tray with the EFI ECU. One of the confusing things out there, is that many cross reference charts still list the wrong fitment for the EFI bikes, still quoting the YTX12-BS that won't physically fit. Yuasa themselves have the wrong fitments listed on their site, and the only Triumph they currently list for the YT12B-BS battery is for the 2007-2011 Tiger. Don't be fooled!

YTX12-BS Specs (from www.yuasabatteries.com) Use for carb bikes
Battery Family: Maintenance Free
Battery Type: YTX12-BS
Voltage: 12
Capacity: 10
Dimensions: 6" x 3.4375" x 5.125"
Weight: 7.5 lbs.
Metric Dimensions: 150mm x 87mm x 130mm
Metric Weight: 3.4 kg
Polarity:
Acid Volume: 0.6
Amps: 1.2
C.C.A.: 180


YT12B-BS Specs (from www.yuasabatteries.com) Use for EFI bikes
Battery Family: Maintenance Free
Battery Type: YT12B-BS
Voltage: 12
Capacity: 10
Dimensions: 6" x 2.75" x 5.125"
Weight: 7.6 lbs.
Metric Dimensions: 150mm x 69.0mm x 130.0mm
Metric Weight: 130 kg
Polarity:
Acid Volume: 0.50
Amps: 1.0
C.C.A.: 215



One of the inherent features of the EFI bikes is that there is always a phantom load being drawn from the battery. This load has been known to drain the batteries down in under three weeks of storage. There is also a low voltage cutoff programmed into the ECU of approximately 12.6 volts. Also, the ECU does not turn itself off when you stop the engine. There is a delay. On early EFI models the ECU would be on for up to 20 minutes drawing about 0.265 amps. There was a fix for this by Triumph to reduce that time to one minute after the key is turned off. Again, this fix was for the early EFI bikes. The headlight being on while starting doesn't help the situation, either. There is an 8.5 amp load on the system with the ignition on, and fuel pump priming. The load is reduced to 5.64 amps when the fuel pump stops. This initial load on the battery will also reduce its standing voltage.


So, what does this all mean?

1. If you're not using your bike regularly, or using it for short trips, keep it on a battery tender. I typically put it on a tender if it's been sitting for a week or so. My minimum ride is 30 minutes of mixed highway/city.

2. Be aware of the low battery cutoff. The battery will need to be at more than 12.6 volts to successfully start the engine. Some folks have had to go to 13.0 volts before the bike would start. Keep in mind that 12.6 volts is the normal reading for a charged battery. The battery is over 80% charged at 12.5 volts.

3. Idle speed. If the engine idle is less than 1000 RPM, the battery will not charge. This is important for those that do short trips around town.

4. Forget your old ways of not doing anything for the battery in an EFI bike. You have been informed!

5. I don't know if the batteries in these bikes will last as long as the ones in the carb bikes. I suspect that they won't as they are at a constant state of discarge while at rest unless on a battery tender.

Why did Triumph do this to us?

There are basically two reasons why there is a low voltage no-start programmed into the ECU. ECU's cannot reliably retrieve information from the various sensors. If the voltage is low, the sensors feed back inaccurate information to the ECU, and then the ECU makes some bad decisions based on this. Also, low batteries work the stator/alternator very hard. Stators have been known to overheat while trying to charge a depleted battery. As to why the low voltage threshold is so high is an unknown. As we know, automobiles with EFI can drop down to approximately 11.5 volts and still start the engine.

Motorcyclist Magazine had a question/answer on this very topic in their Oct, 2009 issue:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/answers/122_0910_ask_the_pro/index.html


Hope this sheds some light for those that are joining the EFI crowd.

By hyates

full thread

In light of the low voltage cutoff from the ECU, one could possibly get caught in a no-start situation due to a 0.1 v voltage difference at the battery. So, for example, if the battery voltage is 0.1 volt than the threshold, the starter interlock would prevent the bike from starting. There is a simple modification that you could make to bypass that interlock, and start the bike.

I'll start off with great thanks to Ken D'Ecosse of (www.triumphrat.net) that devised a way to install a
bypass switch between the starter solenoid and starter relay. Ken has graciously allowed me to reproduce his
findings here on BA.com.

The America and Speedmaster models have the starter relay located under the fuel tank on the left hand side of the frame backbone. This relay is also known as the Headlight Relay or Headlight Dip-Switch Relay. This relay doubles as a headlight cut-out and starter relay. It cuts out power to the headlight when the starter is operating. There is also a way to install a manual intercept button directly on the relay, but since the relay is not accessible, a bypass switch is a more viable solution.

This Emergency Start Mod would work if your battery may be strong enough to prime the fuel system, but be below 12.6 volts. NOTE: that by using this mod, all safety controls are also bypassed . So. kickstand switch, clutch switch, neutral switch, etc are bypassed, so make sure the bike is in neutral first!

From Ken:

The other way to go would be to connect a 'bypass' switch between the two white/red wires - if you close that
switch the starter power will transfer directly from the start button to the solenoid, again bypassing all the interlocks. In a pinch, if stranded, (even without having a switch installed), you can pull the relay out of the socket & just stick a paper clip across those two contacts. Once started you can remove the shorting link (paper clip)
& replace the relay in the socket to get the headlight back again. Neither of these methods is drawing any serious current through the starter button, just the starter solenoid current (not substantially different from the relay), And generally operation is essentially the same with the starter button controlling the start function.
And by this method you avoid shorting the ECM output to ground - although a well-designed short-protected
output device, just as well not to tempt fate & test that repeatedly!



By Hyates

forum thread

The OEM Triumph fuel filter is inside the tank on an EFI BA and SM. Triumph schedule a replacement every 2 years or 12,000 miles (20000 kms). One of the replacements here is the BMW filter (a rebranded Mahle KL145). BMW recommend replacements every 24,000 kms. You choose.

Here is a list of replacements for the OEM fuel filter:

o Triumph Stock - T1240850
o AC (DELCO) GF61
o BMW - 16 14 2 325 859
o Fleetguard FF149
o Fram G2
o KNECHT MAHLE KL145
o Motocraft FG-2
o Napa Gold 3032
o Purolator - F20011
o Wix 33032
o Mahle 145

It's hard to source any of these here in Australia, I can only find the Mahle 145 from BMW shops at $24 each. But that is still a huge saving on the Triumph price here. In the USA you should be able to find some of these replacements for about $5 each.

By foglefar

full thread