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Focus Groups
#370631 01/16/2010 12:07 AM
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Quote:

U.S. Department of Defense Engages Motorcycle Safety Foundation to Conduct Focus Groups
.
IRVINE, Calif.--As the popularity of motorcycling and motorcycle registrations continues to rise among
military service personnel, so does the number of fatal motorcycle crashes. That is why the Department
of Defense (DoD) continues to seek out aggressive countermeasures in the campaign against
two-wheel Private Motor Vehicle (PMV) mishaps among military personnel, and military sport bike riders
in particular.


To that end, the DoD has engaged the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) to conduct four focus groups
for the Defense Safety Oversight Council (DSOC) PMV Task Force. The focus groups will take place at
different locations across the United States in close proximity to military installations. The participants will
represent the dominant motorcycling culture in the military that is statistically at highest risk, primarily sport
bike riders. Officers and commissioned personnel will be sampled separately to ensure that command
structure perspectives are also considered. The initiative is being implemented through the National
Defense Center for Energy and Environment (NDCEE), operated by Concurrent Technologies Corporation
(CTC).

“This initiative falls in line with the PMV Task Force’s strategic plan for the overall reduction of PMV mishaps
across the Department of Defense,” said Major General Fred Roggero, DSOC PMV Task Force Chair. “These
focus groups have the potential to identify core issues, target initiatives and ultimately save lives.”

In 2008, a small focus group was conducted by Al Hydeman, MSF’s director, research, design and development,
with service members who were sport bike riders.

“That focus group was successful in identifying the habits, behaviors and attitudes inherent to this population,”
said MG Roggero.

The projected team for the new series of focus groups will be led by Hydeman, and will include MSF’s Director,
Quality Assurance and Research, Dr. Sherry Williams and Quality Assurance Specialist, David Crouch. Building
on the results from the 2008 effort, the MSF team will plan, coordinate and conduct the four focus groups in
order to identify attitudes toward motorcycling and motorcycling peers, effectiveness of current
countermeasures, barriers to change, and other relevant feedback.

“We’re honored to be part of the Department of Defense’s ongoing efforts to make motorcycle riding safer
for military service personnel,” said Hydeman. “Conducting focus groups is an effective way to get past the
stereotypes and focus on core issues and solutions.”

The project’s expected outcome is to provide guidance to the DoD in identifying the most effective means
of reducing military motorcyclist fatalities and mishaps for all branches of the service – through technology,
education, enforcement, and other areas as illuminated by focus group participants.

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation promotes rider safety through rider training systems, operator licensing
tests and public information programs. The MSF works with the federal government, state agencies, the
military, and others to offer training for all skill levels so riders can enjoy a lifetime of safe, responsible
motorcycling. Standards established by the MSF have been internationally recognized since 1973.

The MSF is a not-for-profit organization sponsored by BMW, BRP, Ducati, Harley-Davidson, Honda, Kawasaki,
KTM,Piaggio, Suzuki, Triumph, Victory, and Yamaha. For RiderCourseSM locations, call (800) 446-9227
or visit www.msf-usa.org.





Am I missing something?
It seems to me that these folks believe that a focus group or class is going to make people safer.
From what I understand of military guidelines for riders they mandate ridiculous measures concerning
gear and safe riding practices yet are baffled when people die anyway.


If there's nothing wrong with me, maybe there's something wrong with the universe! -Dr. Crusher
Re: Focus Groups
Rev #370632 01/16/2010 12:14 AM
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Nope, you're not missing anything. Focus groups, commitees, six sigma studies and such are just the new polictically correct way people think that they are saving mankind from themselves while wasting all kinds of time and money just so they can feel good about themselves.

Re: Focus Groups
Soren #370633 01/16/2010 1:01 AM
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See it all the time I work near LRAFB u can hear them comin a mile away sport bike goes by so fast it's blury (170+)but the wearing camo and the reflective vest required for base and a helmet


2005 America 145 mains, , #48 pilots, , k&n pod filters, ported intakes manifolds, nology coils and wires, pro com CDI, 62 HP at wheel 68,000 hard miles still runs great gone "traded"
Re: Focus Groups *DELETED*
Rev #370634 01/16/2010 3:27 AM
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posting while drunk again


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Re: Focus Groups
roadworthy #370635 01/16/2010 9:10 AM
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Hopefully I can better explain this for you gents so you have a better understanding of what's going on. I'm career Navy so I can't speak for the Army or Air Force, merely what I'm seeing for the Navy and Marine Corps. Our side of the house has taken a VERY SERIOUS look this starting about 5 or so years ago. Kids are kids and inexperienced riders are simply inexperienced. Now you throw on top of that someone that just came into the military and was nearly immediately shipped overseas for a year to march through the sands. They come back with not only a ton of cash but also pent up energy and feeling of being invincible. They buy the fastest bike they can find (never riden before mind you) and end up being shovelled off the pavement by the time the first weekend is over. That's what really started all this. The military has always has regulations on what to wear and such (and I'll get to that shortly), but this is what really kicked it into high gear.

Regarding gear, we have changed some over the years, but currently it's not all that bad; we pretty much fall in lines with the MSF: approved DOT helmet w/ eye protection, long sleeves, gloves, pants and hard-sole shoes that protect the ankles. Yeah, by law we're supposed to wear something reflective if riding at night but no big deal.

We are required to take the Basic MSF course before we EVER ride a bike. We have to take the Experienced MSF course every 3 years after that. And, if you ride a sport bike one must take that course also; although I'm unsure if it's a one time deal or repeatative. The Basic is common sense...ensuring our warriors simply know how to ride instead of trying to figure it out when it's too late. The retaking of the Experienced course makes sure those basic skills remain fresh. A lot of people won't ride for years then climb back on; they can be just as dangerous. It brings back sound skills and really gets you comfortable with your own bike.

For the focus groups, anyone who knows me knows that I am not a touchy feely kind of b--ch. But, I think there can be some success in this. At least in the Navy/Marine Corps we have programs set up where the more experienced riders mentor and coach newer riders. It's not a big deal; we do it here in the forums all the time. With the focus groups, simply, you cannot fix the problem if you don't know exactly the problem is. And that's what they're trying to get at. We, the military, are doing so much to try to prevent all these motorcycle related deaths and still losing the battle. I find there's nothing wrong with asking for help to try and find a better solution. I fully understand that up front it seems touchy feely BS that's a huge waste of time and money. But if it saves one Commanding Officer from having to stand in front of momma and tell her that her son that just came back from a very successful tour of duty in Iraq 4 days ago is now dead because he slammed his crotch rocket into the back of a truck, then it was a success.

Merely my two cents.


2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
Re: Focus Groups
Dupre97 #370636 01/16/2010 1:16 PM
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I wuz gonna say just another gov't job that we have to pay for, but Dupre97 makes a valid point.


06 in Mulberry. AI, Dunstalls, Nology coils, TTP Keep your faith in God, but keep your powder dry. -Oliver Cromwell
Re: Focus Groups
luvdemstillers #370637 01/16/2010 4:00 PM
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I don't believe there is one bit of data that would show military crashes more or less than civilian crashes.

This is a NHTSA thing and that organization is already huge and in place to handle this "focus group". We need to spend not one dime on it. We already have a federal organization in place. Task NHTSA with it.

Is a military son more valuable than a civilian son? If it is that valuable a program it should NOT be just military should it? The larger, better equipped organization should be used so all benefit.

IMHO


I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
Re: Focus Groups
satxron #370638 01/16/2010 4:34 PM
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You make a valid point there, Ron. However, I'm thinkin' here that your following question here does have a variable of which you may not have considered....

Quote:

Is a military son more valuable than a civilian son? If it is that valuable a program it should NOT be just military should it? The larger, better equipped organization should be used so all benefit.

IMHO




Could possibly the idea that YES, a military son(or daughter, for that matter) IS more "valuable" to our government(the entity responsible for this particular focus group) than are their civilian counterparts, because of the all the time and money invested into the former's training and wellbeing?

(just a thought)


Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
Re: Focus Groups
Dwight #370639 01/16/2010 5:57 PM
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I'm not saying that I fully understand the system in place or the targeted objective,
but it seems the intent is to form focus groups to reach those who would otherwise
circumvent the safety measures in place.

My point was that I fail to see how anyone can force someone else to be safety
conscious regarding bikes or anything else for that matter.

Oh, and I too would like to see those comparison statistics Satxron.


If there's nothing wrong with me, maybe there's something wrong with the universe! -Dr. Crusher
Re: Focus Groups
Dwight #370640 01/16/2010 5:59 PM
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So NHTSA can't do it for them at no cost to them? Why would they think they know more about motorcycles and vehicle safety than NHTSA. I don't get it.

Unless its just to explore making ownership and use on bases more restrictive than it is. Most here don't ride to base anyhow. Here in San Antonio we have a lot of military. Most of the muscle bikes stay home in the garages during the day.

The odd thing is we have a lot of bikes riding to work to BAMC. (the hospital) One would think they see so much eye and head injury everyday there would be less bikes there.

You already have to have the helmet, silly little reflective vest, hard shoes, license, safety course. What else can they make these guys do cept maybe push the bike onto the base.


I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
Re: Focus Groups
satxron #370641 01/18/2010 6:28 PM
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I really think you're missing the military aspect of it Ron. The NHTSA does great work I'm sure, but, do they really take into account the military mindset? We really do live and work under rules and regulations most civilians cannot fathom. That, I believe, is why there is this need for focus groups. It's not to see how to enforce current laws or to see what additional protective measures the military can impose on its riders. It's to find a way to get into the mindset of these young men and figure out a ways that can be used to prevent them from becoming cheese spread on our highways.

I see where your fustration is coming from...wasted time and money, the military is doing too much. On the other hand if we didn't do this and the trend continues then others will be b--chin' we didn't do enough. We're almost caught in a lose-lose situation; no matter what we do someone's not going to like it. Frankly, tough s--t. I'm all about saving the lives of any man or woman that gets up every morning to ensure Americans have the freedoms they do and can sleep soundly.

My two cents. Ok, maybe a nickel by now.


2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
Re: Focus Groups
Dupre97 #370642 01/18/2010 9:06 PM
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I understand everything you are typing, I promise I know it very well indeed. I am asking for documentation of the trend. There is no indication that our soldiers crash more or less than our civilians.

That statistic and the age group along with the type of vehicle should be captured for them before they spend a dime. IMHO. You have to have something to focus on to have a focus group.

Unless naturally they have no other need of the money and the VA couldn't use it. They have everything they ever needed I guess. Walter Reed comes to mind.

Firefighters, police, nurses, EMTs, everybody that ever served. Those personality types are riddled through our society? I think they could be well served by a broader study couldn't they?

I am sorry to give you a hard time. My thoughts are that as long as we have our walking wounded on long waiting lists for care that focus group can kiss my butt. Our wounded should be placed well above worry over a speed freak on his own time tagging a guard rail. The wounded vets played tag with other types of steel and deserve the money and concern first.

In a way Dwight, you are probably right. The wounded ones have no value anymore. We can't send them anywhere. They are just a negative on the books.

I will leave this tread alone before I put in a dollars worth.


I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
Re: Focus Groups
satxron #370643 01/19/2010 12:08 PM
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Points understood but I'll add in one more piece of the puzzle...and I never really knew, much less understood, this until my current assignment in the acquisition world. Federal funding is planned and placed years in advance. And once in place it seemingly, sometimes literally, an act of Congress to re-funnel those funds. The simplicity of taking from one pot and dumping into another just doesn't happen...unless you are Congress and taking from Social Security, but that's another thread.


2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
Re: Focus Groups
satxron #370644 01/29/2010 1:13 AM
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Quote:

I don't believe there is one bit of data that would show military crashes more or less than civilian crashes.

This is a NHTSA thing and that organization is already huge and in place to handle this "focus group". We need to spend not one dime on it. We already have a federal organization in place. Task NHTSA with it.

Is a military son more valuable than a civilian son? If it is that valuable a program it should NOT be just military should it? The larger, better equipped organization should be used so all benefit.

IMHO



The military OWNS the military son. They can require him to do almost anything. Including a LOT of things the non-military sons cannot be required to do. The Navy did a lot of things to me that a civilian employer could never do. MSF was a very minor item on that list.


We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
Re: Focus Groups
Dupre97 #370645 02/02/2010 7:09 AM
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Quote:

Hopefully I can better explain this for you gents so you have a better understanding of what's going on. I'm career Navy so I can't speak for the Army or Air Force, merely what I'm seeing for the Navy and Marine Corps. Our side of the house has taken a VERY SERIOUS look this starting about 5 or so years ago. Kids are kids and inexperienced riders are simply inexperienced. Now you throw on top of that someone that just came into the military and was nearly immediately shipped overseas for a year to march through the sands. They come back with not only a ton of cash but also pent up energy and feeling of being invincible. They buy the fastest bike they can find (never riden before mind you) and end up being shovelled off the pavement by the time the first weekend is over. That's what really started all this. The military has always has regulations on what to wear and such (and I'll get to that shortly), but this is what really kicked it into high gear.

Regarding gear, we have changed some over the years, but currently it's not all that bad; we pretty much fall in lines with the MSF: approved DOT helmet w/ eye protection, long sleeves, gloves, pants and hard-sole shoes that protect the ankles. Yeah, by law we're supposed to wear something reflective if riding at night but no big deal.

We are required to take the Basic MSF course before we EVER ride a bike. We have to take the Experienced MSF course every 3 years after that. And, if you ride a sport bike one must take that course also; although I'm unsure if it's a one time deal or repeatative. The Basic is common sense...ensuring our warriors simply know how to ride instead of trying to figure it out when it's too late. The retaking of the Experienced course makes sure those basic skills remain fresh. A lot of people won't ride for years then climb back on; they can be just as dangerous. It brings back sound skills and really gets you comfortable with your own bike.

For the focus groups, anyone who knows me knows that I am not a touchy feely kind of b--ch. But, I think there can be some success in this. At least in the Navy/Marine Corps we have programs set up where the more experienced riders mentor and coach newer riders. It's not a big deal; we do it here in the forums all the time. With the focus groups, simply, you cannot fix the problem if you don't know exactly the problem is. And that's what they're trying to get at. We, the military, are doing so much to try to prevent all these motorcycle related deaths and still losing the battle. I find there's nothing wrong with asking for help to try and find a better solution. I fully understand that up front it seems touchy feely BS that's a huge waste of time and money. But if it saves one Commanding Officer from having to stand in front of momma and tell her that her son that just came back from a very successful tour of duty in Iraq 4 days ago is now dead because he slammed his crotch rocket into the back of a truck, then it was a success.

Merely my two cents.




sir, you must have been a chief before you went mustang?


I am but a Jester in a court of Kings. 08 America, Baffelectomy, Freak, Hard Bags w/ blinkys, Stock Pilots/158 Mains, ISO's, Procom CDI my bike
Re: Focus Groups
scubadude #370646 02/03/2010 6:54 PM
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Once a Chief, always a Chief...even if I did go Mustang.


2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
Re: Focus Groups
Dupre97 #370647 02/03/2010 9:34 PM
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I have to side with Dupre on this. And I would not be surprized if the study showed that military riders crash more. Again it has to do with kids getting big lumps of cash; whether it be savings following deployments, lump sum resigning bonuses (some are quite large), or the shrewd slush funder. Add to this the thrill seeking of youth and you have a formula. I can speak to this from personal experience. The average 18-19 YO in the military can probably amass more liquid cash than a civilian counterpart. Room and board are taken care of as well as health and dental. No worries for the young footloose single navy lad. He can probably afford the bigger, badder machines as well. I don't think they need a brain trust for that, but the concern is genuine. Back in the day, I invested everything to super hot cars, then moved onto motorcycles. Thankfully, I did MOST all of my stupid stuff in cars, before getting to bikes. Then I only did SOME stupid stuff.


Pacific Blue/White 2009 America in the TX Hill Country Not all that glitters is gold. Tolkien. Hmm Must've seen the chrome on my TA coming down the road.

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