 HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823
Learned Hand
|
OP
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823 |
web page very good write up Ed 
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,133 Likes: 52
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,133 Likes: 52 |
This is the first I have heard of this, at first I thought BS or rider error but I guess if it has happened to police both in the field and under testing there may be some validity to it. Wonder if it is anything like the wobble our bikes seem to be vulnerable to that a tire change seems to cure? Mine personally has never had it happen though.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
My bike wobbles when I take my hands off the bars.
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,133 Likes: 52
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,133 Likes: 52 |
It shouldn't Keith, I ride mine down long hills around corners and everything without ever touching my bars with no wobble.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
One of these days I'll replace the steering head bearings. Hopefully that will cure the problem.
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 124 |
Keith, have you tried to re-torque the head bearings? That should resolve it. Also, low front tire pressure will bring it on.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
I had a bad set of tires cause a noticeable wobble at speeds of about 30-35 MPH, but was smoooth as silk at all other times, even over 100 MPH. The only time I noticed it was when I took my hands off the bars at 30-35 while coasting. It was a little freaky but not a "death wobble". 
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212 |
i used to have a wobble in the front if i let go the bars,since i changed the rear end front tire it seems to have gone away, still pulls to the right though if i let them go. I just don't let go :-) i am not in the circus LOL
2007 Speedmaster and miss it!
2013 T-Bird Storm and Luvin it!
Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at 70 mph can double your vocabulary
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
since i changed the rear end front tire...
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,133 Likes: 52
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,133 Likes: 52 |
Quote:
Quote:
since i changed the rear end front tire...
That's the front tire on the back. 
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,628 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,628 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
One of these days I'll replace the steering head bearings. Hopefully that will cure the problem.
That worked for me. The originals aren't all that great.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Our neck bearings are the same as the ones that come with a cheap Chinese import bicycle. Ball bearings caged in sheet metal. They're crap.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
I remeber seeing ads for a product that cured the wobble or shimmy experienced on HD baggers in a magazine. Not sure if it was Baggers or another custom bike rag. Either way I thought it was odd that there was a need for a product like that until now.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
since i changed the rear end front tire...
That's the front tire on the back.
LOL rear "and" front tire! LOL
2007 Speedmaster and miss it!
2013 T-Bird Storm and Luvin it!
Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at 70 mph can double your vocabulary
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
since i changed the rear end front tire...
That's the front tire on the back.
LOL rear "and" front tire! LOL
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152 |
Keith: easy to test for the front bearings. Remember we found the problem with my bike by putting the front end on your jack and we could feel the notch.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
My 04 America had a terrible wobble between 30-45 when I brought it home and a new front tire cured it immediately. Didn't hurt any that I went to Avon from the OEM either, those Venoms gripped like glue compared to the originals.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847 |
Seems like I have more wobble then my bike ever did.... 
Warren
04 Caspian Blue and Silver America
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,445 Likes: 1
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,445 Likes: 1 |
I had the beginnings of a tank slapper once (another bike) and just leaned it into a lane change to get it off the axis it was on. Problem solved, but I was a wreck for a while. I saw the end result of one of the Cannonball bikes' tankslapper and it totalled that Allstate. Probably started at no more than 45mph. I 'd hate to encounter one at speed!
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,251 Likes: 13
Saddle Sore
|
|
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,251 Likes: 13 |
Death wobble, I first thought someone was hitting the sauce  I've been hearing about this death wobble for a couple years now but that's the first article I've read. This, and the latest recall for front brake lockup aint looking so good for the Milwaukee crew. Damn !
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,445 Likes: 1
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,445 Likes: 1 |
Probably the best thing to do for a death wobble is to get the front wheel up in the air and then set it down again, but that isn't an option with our bikes.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,931 Likes: 1
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,931 Likes: 1 |
the st1300 honda had this problem too. i think it has killed several
we should do this every weekend!
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 874
3/4 Throttle
|
|
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 874 |
My bike doesn't have it, but a few of the Honda Magna's had the death wobble as well.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,931 Likes: 1
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,931 Likes: 1 |
we should do this every weekend!
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
I read an article on this a few years ago. Its been happening long enough now that some of my friends in other countries actually call Harley riders "wobblers". Any way. According to the article it is the soft rubber motor mounts. The motor works like a gyro scope in affect, when the bike is leaned down into a corner the gyroscope affect doesn't allow the shake of the motor to change angles as quickly as the bike can be pushed down so the bike in leaning and the shaking force of the engine is still vertical thus pushing the bike up and down while trying to lean into a corner.
Harley is the only company with this problem because their engine shakes like a paint shaker and the motor is rubber mounted which is the only anyone can sit on one at idle.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
On other bikes you may deal a wobble when leaning hard into a turn. This is because you are a point where the rate of travel is not creating enough force to maintain the low angle. Give it a slight amount of throttle and let the force raise the bike a bit and it should smooth out.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
I've been told that with a HD, once committed to a turn, it's hard to modify the turn to go tighter or wider. I haven't ridden a HD (I'm pure) and I puzzled why that could be so. This explains it.
But I wonder why, with modern technology, HD can't build a better balanced engine? Every other manufacturer has no problem.
Last edited by foglefar; 07/15/2014 5:00 PM.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,707 Likes: 3
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,707 Likes: 3 |
they could, but tradition...
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
I've experienced extreme wobbles at Irish weddings and wakes.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
Quote:
I've been told that with a HD, once committed to a turn, it's hard to modify the turn to go tighter or wider. I haven't ridden a HD (I'm pure) and I puzzled why that could be so. This explains it.
But I wonder why, with modern technology, HD can't build a better balanced engine? Every other manufacturer has no problem.
Back in the dark ages[1974] when I rode a sportster.Even that sportster once committed,seemed to take quite some effort to modify it's turn,if I remember correctly
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 663 |
When I had my 2010 Road Glide, there were a number of riders on the RG forum that had the front end "shakes" when they decelerated - it seemed that tightening the head bearings helped for some, but didn't on others. From the stories told, it seemed very dangerous. I had no problems whatsoever with mine, and found that it was great going into corners for a big bike.
2013 Speedmaster Matte Black
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
On other bikes you may deal a wobble when leaning hard into a turn. This is because you are a point where the rate of travel is not creating enough force to maintain the low angle. Give it a slight amount of throttle and let the force raise the bike a bit and it should smooth out.
True to a certain degree Chad, however in many cases a wobble effect while in a turn is often the result of shocks not possessing enough rebound damping in order for them to more slowly return to their non-compressed state, and with this lack of damping often creating a bouncing effect which contributes to the wobble effect in turns especially.
And this does not just pertain to Harley-Davidson motorcycles, of course.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
I've been told that with a HD, once committed to a turn, it's hard to modify the turn to go tighter or wider. I haven't ridden a HD (I'm pure) and I puzzled why that could be so. This explains it.
But I wonder why, with modern technology, HD can't build a better balanced engine? Every other manufacturer has no problem.
They do and have for quite a few years now, Richard. Some of their Big Twin models have had balance shafts inside their engines since around 2005, as had their V-Rod model and their new line of water-cooled smaller V-Twins just hitting the market now.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
I had a wobble on my America at 110kph too.After friends trued the wheels, stiffened up the front fork springs with a couple of washers,changed and put heavier oil in the forks,
I changed the front tire and it cured it. The original Metzler had cupped.I went to Bridgestone from then on.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,200 Likes: 10
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,200 Likes: 10 |
Quote:
Harley is the only company with this problem because their engine shakes like a paint shaker and the motor is rubber mounted which is the only anyone can sit on one at idle.
Funny story about that here.
Guy buys a Sportster. Rides out, comes back the next day saying there's something wrong with the bike, it shakes too much!
Trying to explain to the guy that it is a Harley "thing". Guy couldn't believe it. Left the bike overnight for the shop to "fix" it. They rode it, tried to see if there was something loose... nope.
2 months it goes like that, guy comes back to shop, complains about the "shake". After 2 months, guy asks the shop to buy back his bike....
I tried it. Didn't like it... not one bit. And yes, it shakes like crazy!
The name... "Sportster"... is it because it is a sport to just stay on that bike?
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Quote:
On other bikes you may deal a wobble when leaning hard into a turn. This is because you are a point where the rate of travel is not creating enough force to maintain the low angle. Give it a slight amount of throttle and let the force raise the bike a bit and it should smooth out.
True to a certain degree Chad, however in many cases a wobble effect while in a turn is often the result of shocks not possessing enough rebound damping in order for them to more slowly return to their non-compressed state, and with this lack of damping often creating a bouncing effect which contributes to the wobble effect in turns especially.
And this does not just pertain to Harley-Davidson motorcycles, of course.
True, I was assuming that all mechanical mechanisms were functioning appropriately. However this can be the case on many stock bikes with OEM suspension, small cruisers in particular.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Quote:
I've been told that with a HD, once committed to a turn, it's hard to modify the turn to go tighter or wider. I haven't ridden a HD (I'm pure) and I puzzled why that could be so. This explains it.
But I wonder why, with modern technology, HD can't build a better balanced engine? Every other manufacturer has no problem.
They do and have for quite a few years now, Richard. Some of their Big Twin models have had balance shafts inside their engines since around 2005, as had their V-Rod model and their new line of water-cooled smaller V-Twins just hitting the market now.
Yes they do have what amounts to two balance cams driven by the crank, they work about as well as our VA hospital system. and here is some I formation on it. The balancers not the hospitals
http://www.hotbikeweb.com/twin-cam-b-motor-balancer-mods/?image=5
Last edited by locopony; 07/16/2014 1:23 PM.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
|
|
Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
But I wonder why, with modern technology, HD can't build a better balanced engine? Every other manufacturer has no problem.
They do. The Softail suspension doesn't adapt well to the rubber engine mounting system, so they developed the 'B' series engine with counter balance shafts. The big deal with the rubber mount system is that, at idle, there is a hint of traditional engine vibration harking back to the days of the Duo-glide. This smooths out at around 1200 - 1500 RPM so there is little impact on rider comfort. The engine mounting system is very complex with stay rods preventing lateral movement. If the stay rods are loose, bent or maladjusted, the engine flops all around and causes all kinds of handling problems.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,133 Likes: 52
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,133 Likes: 52 |
They should just bolt the damn thing like any other normal engine and let it vibrate, problem solved.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: HD death wobble
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,628 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,628 Likes: 7 |
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
|
|
|
|
|
