 Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Hi guy's, I was sent here from another forum and told that Dinqua would probably have more experience with my question than anyone else as you..( he )...has probably @ some point tried nearly all the carbs available  If your reading this, and your not Dinqua, and have any experience with various carbs I'd appreciate any info you could give.
I have a 06 bonnie black, ai removal, airbox removal, k&n pods, BC 904 kit, minor porting, billet intakes port matched to the head, Specialty Spare's mega's...( pred's are otw ), BC ECU, 18 tooth front sprocket...and other stuff that is escaping me @ the moment...( not performance related )
I'm considering different carbs for the bike, thinking my goal for this thing is mid to upper 70's to maybe even 80 hp
I'd like to get some input from those of you that have experience with various carbs...FCR's, Mikuni's, or otherwise that I'm not aware of. I seen somewhere that amal had a new 38mm carb?
Pro's..Con's...what should I be looking for?
What should I stay away from?
Big thanks for any help you can give in advance.
SC
Last edited by SCCTrim; 08/10/2006 9:54 PM.
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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The HSR42mm Mikunis are overkill. You need to jet them down so far it is a waste. You also need to completely disable the accellerator pumps too. These are the same carbs pretty much all the serious flattrackers run too, but they also run WOT all the time.
I am working on a set of 36mm flatside Mikunis and will probably offering them as kits in the near future. These do not have accellerator pumps either, but have the holes so they can always be added later.
The Amals are just like the old Amals, leak, flood, poor fitting bits, stay away.
The 39mm FCRs are very nice, if you just won the lottery. But you have to be careful as they will flood the motor from a dead stop if you give it even a little too much gas. This stalls the bike, it's embarassing and potentially dangerous if the car behind you runs you over before you can restart and get away. This is a well documented issue with them, they are more for serious road racers than road warriors such as us. But I bet they would be nice to have a set, If only I had a spare $2000 sitting around.
I cannot say for sure anything about the other CR carbs out there, but a lot of guys have them and seem to like them.
There is an old Norton guy (racer, rebuilder, restorations) near me I ran into the other night. He told me to come over to his shop and we can talk carbs. He seems to think that a set of the DelToros would be ideal for my Speedmaster, I'll keep everyone posted on that subject later.
Me, I'm most likely gonna go with the Mikunis for my bike once we get them in and dialed in. Ed already has them and his bike is almost as fast as mine, and he is still at 790cc!
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Quote:
He seems to think that a set of the DelToros would be ideal for my Speedmaster
Um, shouldn't that be Del'Orto carbs? 
Has Ed had his bike dynoed lately with the 36mm Mikunis installed?
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Quote:
Ed already has them and his bike is almost as fast as mine, and he is still at 790cc!
Holy CRAP! Are you sh!tting me? 
Get your arse in gear and get those kits on the market!!!!!!!
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Learned Hand
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really ?! Does he also have cams or BB? Just how much are the right carbs alone capable of? I would never have guessed carbs alone could make a huge difference.
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Should be Riding
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If Pat gets them dialed in, then that would be great, cause then those of us with a measly 790 CC could get the carbs, and know they will still work after a BB down the road.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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daz, Carbs alone can make a huge difference. When I had the 42mm Mikunis before I was dynoing in the mid to upper 60s hp. I said "almost as fast" by the way. Sal, Yea, guess I spelled it wrong, either way, I have never seen them anyway, or I have but just don't rmember, lots of beers over the years will do that to old furts like me. 
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Loquacious
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I hear ya Pat. I've never been much of a gearhead myself, but I have heard of the name Del'Orto. I believe Ducati have used them, and BMW, and Moto Guzzi, but I've never owned any of those brands. I'm sure Greybeard will be along to give us the lowdown. I thought maybe carbs would only be good for another 3-5 hp, but it'd be great if those 36mm flatsides will pull more than that.
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Quote:
The HSR42mm Mikunis are overkill. You need to jet them down so far it is a waste. You also need to completely disable the accellerator pumps too. These are the same carbs pretty much all the serious flattrackers run too, but they also run WOT all the time.
I am working on a set of 36mm flatside Mikunis and will probably offering them as kits in the near future. These do not have accellerator pumps either, but have the holes so they can always be added later.
The Amals are just like the old Amals, leak, flood, poor fitting bits, stay away.
The 39mm FCRs are very nice, if you just won the lottery. But you have to be careful as they will flood the motor from a dead stop if you give it even a little too much gas. This stalls the bike, it's embarassing and potentially dangerous if the car behind you runs you over before you can restart and get away. This is a well documented issue with them, they are more for serious road racers than road warriors such as us. But I bet they would be nice to have a set, If only I had a spare $2000 sitting around.
I cannot say for sure anything about the other CR carbs out there, but a lot of guys have them and seem to like them.
There is an old Norton guy (racer, rebuilder, restorations) near me I ran into the other night. He told me to come over to his shop and we can talk carbs. He seems to think that a set of the DelToros would be ideal for my Speedmaster, I'll keep everyone posted on that subject later.
Me, I'm most likely gonna go with the Mikunis for my bike once we get them in and dialed in. Ed already has them and his bike is almost as fast as mine, and he is still at 790cc!
Thanks for the reply, I'm very intrested in the flatslide's you plan to offer up. Any idea of a time frame on this...?
Maybe you need someone else to test something for you...? ;-)
SC
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
I'm very intrested in the flatslide's you plan to offer up. Any idea of a time frame on this...?
Hopefully within a month at most. Mine should have been here 3 weeks ago, they are searching the USPS to see where they ended up. Thye told me to call Monday AM and if I don't have them they will ship another set and cables overnight to me.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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In a perfect world it'd be nice to have a comparo with the 39mm FCRs and 36mm flatslides once you get yours setup and dialed in. I wonder if anybody has put those 39mmm on one of our bikes?
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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so... something to show off/play with at your house in september?
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Learned Hand
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ok here are some fact's about putting the 36mm flatslide on our bike's...
1.will also need to get the high flow pingle petcock..this carb's like gas!!!
2.you will need to make a 2 into 1 cable..
3.will also need to put the freak on your bike..
4.will need diffrent K&N fillter's the ones that come with the freak will fit on these carb's "need bigger one's for the 36mm flatslide"
i have giving pat all the info and what i had to do to make these carb's work..and work they do they pull very hard and are a big step over our stock carb's
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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We all appreciate the work you have done to source and adapt a high performance, reasonably priced carb kit for the New Triumph Twins.
Do the TM's have any hesitation/stumbling, when you wack the throttle open hard at low revs?
The TM 36 and TM 40 pumpers, also designated HS40, these look like smaller versions of the HSR range flatslide pumpers.
Would you consider making a kit with these carbs?
These look more suited for our bikes than the HSR 42 kit which Bonneville Performance sells.
IMHO the HSR 42 kit is too big for a street based motor, probably ok for dragracing or flattracking.
Read somewhere a while ago, that the venturi size of a carb should be 80% of the diameter of the intake valves?
keep up the good work.
Cheers ..............Agro
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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The 36s that are on biker's 790cc 2002 BA have no hesitation whatsoever. You whack, you fly. at any throttle position or RPM. Last time I looked at his carbs, it appears they are ready for pumps already, there is capped off spot that could be reomved and insert a pump assembly, I believe this is what it is for but I am not 100% certain. Some future research will be in line for that when the time comes. The HS carbs are also about twice as much money by the way than the TMs. I agree 100% that the 42 pumpers are too big, been there done that. I had some but could never get them dialed down lean enough to work properly. They were real monsters though and really improved the response. I had about 65.5 hp with them and Tbike pipes when I was playing and dyno'd them. But they just kept machine gunning from the flooding whenever I hit WOT for more than about 5 seconds. They are now available with much smaller jets and needles and I have read where they are now working quite nicely, but they are about $1600+US. Ed's (biker) bike runs really strong and we are going to get it on a dyno soone to see what is actually going on with them too. He also had to jet and needle his down to work with the 790 motor. The good part about them is that you can get mikuni jets/needles in tons of sizes and they are readily available from almost any motorcycle shop. I am certain they are even plenty beefy enough for the 904s, like several of us already run. I should have mine in next week hopefully and will keep everyone posted. that was the whole deal with Jane agreeing (sorta) of getting them. I told her I would recoup my money by selling them to youz guys. So, in a way, you guys will pay for my R&D work. One issue I still have to work out is the main throttle cable. At present we had to take the stock cable and cut it and adapt it to fit the two into one cable that lift the slides in the new carbs. Not a biggie though. I have a source to buy all the goodies to make up cables too. And after playing with the Anals ( ) I have gotten pretty good at making cables by now. Another minor issue to some, may be that you willl end up with two seperate choke knobs. You need to sorta reach in and choke them individually, then remember to shut them down after a few miles. There are some two into one choke assemblies, but after my experiences with this sort of setup before, I prefer the individual chokes. But I'll see whare that leads later as well.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm very intrested in the flatslide's you plan to offer up. Any idea of a time frame on this...?
Hopefully within a month at most. Mine should have been here 3 weeks ago, they are searching the USPS to see where they ended up. Thye told me to call Monday AM and if I don't have them they will ship another set and cables overnight to me.
Just wondering if they have found the carb's...or if they overnighted you another pair as mentioned above?
No pressure...just patiently watching the time pass by
tic..tock
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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the new carbs should arrive tonight, or so they said. I won't hold my breath.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Pat(east coast)..I am working on those 39mm FCRs as we speak. Once I feel the results are acceptable for some of you(and me for that matter) I will post the results(unbiased..as unbiased as I can be), pictures, and most of all cost. Early...and I mean early indicators are $800 for the FCRs(throttle linkage modifications may be neccesary) and $150 for the intakes. Doug(west coast) P.S. I may be testing the new MSD module for the motorcycles This too is expensive but the results are noticable(installed the kit on a 05 KZ 1100)and will allow for bigger plug gaps to power the spark without burdoning the stock ignitor($$$) and coils.
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Could I order 2 of these Mikuni's and make them work? Mikuni's
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Worn Saddle
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They are the same ones I am using, cheaper at Pro-flo or Sudco. Mine are on the kitchen table. I had to brew for the rally today, I'm working on them tomorrow.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Should be Riding
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Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Loquacious
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still waiting on the dyno to see what those cams did for you
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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So Pat... if you get everything dialed in by the NorEast Coast Rally, are you going to abide by the rules at Watkins Glen???
'06 TBA - Black, AI and Snorkel removed, K&N Drop In, Gutted Stock Pipes, 145/42, 2 turns out.
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Dinqua, I have some Mikuni Round slides on my XS650 hardtail project, they are around 350 bucks a set which included (for the XS) the manifold clamps, throttle cables, and basically everything needed to bolt them on.
I think they are 34mm which would be a little small for our bikes, but what do you think the benefit over roundslides vs flatslides is? Flatslides flow better, right? I think one could make up a set of these roundslides pretty cheaply, and they would be much better than stock.
Thoughts?
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
still waiting on the dyno to see what those cams did for you
Frank
Yep, getting there, I have been getting ready for the rally and it's also time to get kids ready for school too, so I need to get my :
Then I'll post results.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Dinqua, I have some Mikuni Round slides on my XS650 hardtail project, they are around 350 bucks a set which included (for the XS) the manifold clamps, throttle cables, and basically everything needed to bolt them on.
I think they are 34mm which would be a little small for our bikes, but what do you think the benefit over roundslides vs flatslides is? Flatslides flow better, right? I think one could make up a set of these roundslides pretty cheaply, and they would be much better than stock.
Thoughts?
Flatsides work much better.
But you need to remove the airboxes from our bikes to mount these. Well, you may be able to cob your box somehow and make them work, but the 36mm Mikunis are pretty much a blot on with new cables, airfilters, a simple brace to hold them together and the fronts foit the intake manifolds already. Thenm you need to dial them in. That's where it gets funner.
Ed stopped in yesterday to offer his help with them since he already has them on his BA. I need to get measurements so I can get some stainless cut for the back brace. I was out clothes shopping with my daughters (by the way, you think motorcycles are expensive? Try shopping for two teenaged daughters for school clothes! Yumpin freakin yiminees are they costly! I could buy a nice BMW for what they cost me)
Anyway, maybe play with them today.
Oh yea, the $350 is way more than I paid at Pro-Flo form the 36mm flatsides. TM-36 and a 2-1 cable and s/h was still less than that.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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That's a good price Dinqua, any idea how much you'll be offering your kits for? Count me in!
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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OK this topic is interesting enough for me to join the forum. Dinqua, you are one dedicated experimenter, many thanks for sharing all your results.
Forgive my ignorance here, but I thought all the direct action carbs worked a lot better with accelerator pumps because when you whacked the slide open you dropped the vacuum and hence induced a transient super lean condition. I thought this was the big problem with the Keihin CR carbs (which don't have pumps) and was solved with the FCRs.
Haven't really studied the Mikuni TMs but I guess they're the original flatslide. According to the Sudco catalog they're available both with and without pumps, and there's also some optional jet for use with two strokes. Very cool stuff, I'm very anxious to hear how it works out.
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Learned Hand
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ok i went with the mikuni 36MM flatslids with NO PUMP and this is why...
first i went with mikuni's because here in the U.S.A i can get part's for them at any bike shop..then i had to find out what kind of mikuni carb i wanted to use.. at first i was going to use round slids but saw that i could get flat slids for only $30 buck's more so i went with the flat slids and guys this is the reasone i went with the mikuni 36MM f.S i can get main jet's from #50 to #200 in increment's of 5 #200 to #720 increment's of 10
pilot jet's #10 to #40 increment's of 2.5 #40 to #100 increment's of 5 #100 to #120 increment's of 10 and at least 6 diffrent needles that give me alot of range to play with and get these carb's set up the way i wanted...ok this why i did not go with the Accelerator Pump first of all it cost alot more and for what one cost i could get 2 with no pump..and i feel that our bike's don't rev fast enough to really need the pump.. meaning our bike does not go from 0 RPM'S to 7500 RPM'S fast enough but that is just me i am sure there are othere's out that feel that the pump works better for them..
and also these carb's go on our bike's very easy with out much work.. yes it take me some time to get the jetting right but now that i have that worked out i am very happy with these carb's and thay are a big step over the stock carb's
BIKER
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Biker, that's good that you did not have to do much to make them fit. I have to machine everything to make my new Edelbrocks fit. I will keep you and Pat posted when I get everything together.....Angelis
1200CC BIG BORE, W/WISECO PISTONS,.250 STROKED CRANK, PORTED/POLISHED HEADS AND LARGER VALVES, CUSTOM WELDED EXHUAST, DUAL 42MM MIKUNI CARBS.
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Hey Pat, hope the rally was a good time for all. Just wanted to touch base with you and check the progression of your project with the mikuni's.... (drool)
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Getting back to work on them soon. I got the barckets made and the new cable just came in this weekend too. I have to try a new product for one of the vendors for the stock carbs first though. But should not be any more than another 1-12 months. 
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Quote:
But should not be any more than another 1-12 months.
Well, that doesn't do us any good!
04 Speedy, 904cc 12:1 CR JE pistons, ProCom CDI, Nology coils, Hotwires, lightened flywheel, CR ll's, 18 tooth front sprocket, freak kit, cocktail shaker and scypter exhaust, bobbed rear fender, headwinds headlight, wires in bars, and Scott Oiler
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
I have to try a new product for one of the vendors for the stock carbs first though.
Thumb screws?
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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1 to 12 months.............awesome
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Loquacious
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BUMPITY BUMP Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
BUMPITY BUMP
Frank
I haven't forgotten about you frank. It has been really really nasty and I have been busy at work and have had no time at all to mess with the mikunis. Ed has been palying wiht his a little but it's so cold and wet we haven't meant up in awhile.
I need to cut up my throttle cable first, need to dig out my rountuit.
I'm gonna go hang out with Jaymo this afternoon, maybe get some work done tonight on them. His bike is nice and broken in since the new rebuild/big bore and is happy as one of my cats locked in the food cupboard.
Don't worry, I'll keep ya posted.
On a side note, a vendor called me and wanted to know all my specs as to the brackets sizes, jets needed and exactly what I am using. Hmmm, I told him they were secrets and I would probably not share the info if I was gonna sell kits. he then told me to make them and he would sell them for me. That may be an option too. Or maybe I'll just make mine up and list everything so youz guyz can just make them up yourself.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223
Big Bore
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Big Bore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223 |
Quote:
he then told me to make them and he would sell them for me
NFW!! Added costs!! 
Quote:
Or maybe I'll just make mine up and list everything so youz guyz can just make them up yourself.
Now there's the Dinqua we all know and love!!
btw, I could wait until spring for you. There's no need to freeze off your itty-bits getting this done!! 
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Hell I'd rather have Pat put the kit together for me and buy it
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Question about FCR's/Mikuni's...Dinqua?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204 |
Quote:
Hell I'd rather have Pat put the kit together for me and buy it
I second that thought......Angelis
1200CC BIG BORE, W/WISECO PISTONS,.250 STROKED CRANK, PORTED/POLISHED HEADS AND LARGER VALVES, CUSTOM WELDED EXHUAST, DUAL 42MM MIKUNI CARBS.
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