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Another interesting read

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=072106B

History will be written in the years to come that will cause the hatemongers who so viscerally attempt to destroy George Dubyas fine record in the war on terror to be in gross error.

Much as Abraham Lincoln was eviscerated by his critics during the American Civil so too is GDB.

History will set the record right.

The opportunity for great things to happen in the war on terror are at hand. The Arab world is in a state of dissaray. They simply dont have a clue at this point. You know that something is going on when some Arab factions have actually issued FATWAH's AGAINST Hezbollah.

Unfortunately, history is usually written by whoever is in power. We who are around today will get to see events as they happen, Those in the future will only get to see what is then "politically correct". (God I hate to see those 2 words written as if they belong together!)

I agree Kev. President Bush has made the tough decisions in fighting terrorists.

Heck, even FDR was criticized during WW2. He was re-elected in 1944 but did not run unopposed. lol

An amazingly well written piece and you would be hard pressed to misunderstand what is going on over there.


Are we sure it wasn't written by ladisney?

I didn't read the link. I do know that my (Occidental) oil company's stock has increased from $21 to $104 in 3 years, and it only costs us 3 or 4 USMarines/Soldiers a week. Of course my CEO (who was born in Beirut, Lebanon) now makes over $46 million per year. I can look at my retirement fund with a smile on my face, but our economy is a train wreck. I know, there are 277 billion jobs created in the USA every year, but we can't build a flourishing economy by delivering pizzas to each other - I don't care what GW's daddy says.
Get Real and stop defending this bafoon. I voted for the imbecile because of the other choice. GW can't run again, and I will not vote to re-elect anyone else either, at no level of government. Stand up for America, and get involved - I wish I could serve in the Navy again.
I don't need to be told what's happening in the middle east today. I have known since 1969 when I was 15 years old, that Arab nations will not rest until Israel is eliminated from the face of the earth. More recently, I know that Saddam's WMD were moved to Syria before we invaded Iraq - since GW knew he needed to take 2-3 months to deploy our troups, so the move could take place (to protect oil interest). Those WMD will show up soon.
Wake up. The only weapons we found in Iraq were manufactured in France and Russia just months before they were discovered (weren't we supposed to have a worldwide ban on selling weapons to Iraq for 12 years?).
One thing I wish I could do more than joining the navy again - Move to Israel and declare myself a Penecostal Jew.
Now I know ya'll think I'm crazy - but I'm not Mohammed - I do know the truth, which remains unchanged no matter what I say.

I have met Pentecostal Jews. Even saw a Pentecostal (former) Muslim in chuch one night!

And in late 1969, my fanny was stationed with the 101st Airborn (Airmobile) in Viet Nam, where I wound up celebrating my 25th birthday in Feb. of '70.

If any of you have doubts about how our current economy is doing, read some recent articles by Larry Kudlow.

“The 'big bang,' as invading Iraq has sometimes been called, was meant to reorder the nature of politics in the region. This has been accomplished in a fundamental way. The idea of dividing an enemy force into its constituent parts and then dealing with it piecemeal is at least as old as Caesar's actions in Gaul. It applies no less to US strategy in the Middle East. Every faction there has been made to reconsider its relationship with every other. Rather than there being a monolithic clash of civilizations, thus far the US is dealing with the area in pieces -- in whatever way it sees fit to do so -- whether making it tacitly clear to Syria that what happened in Iraq could more easily happen to it, or threatening Iran on behalf of the region and world, or seeking cooperation with the Saudis in hunting down al Qaeda.”

I think Syria has been fighting us in Iraq for some time. Leave it to the neo-cons to describe the blood on their hands as make-up. Bush was right about WMD and the spurious 9/11 Saddam conspiracy? Like Garcia Lorca said, “The blood of children in the streets is just like the blood of children in the streets.”
try this:

empire

cat

The first casualty when war comes is the truth.
~Sen. Hiram Johnson

(This is in agreement with cat)

Platitudes about the futility of war are ageless. This war like all others will end someday. Preferably after we win.

The war on terror is necessary and will continue regardless of platitudes written by long dead philosophers or for that matter living ones.

The strategy of the war against islamo fascism is progressing however slowly yet meticulously in our favor.

I see Israel is making great strides today. Tneir progress in reducing Lebanon to a mere afterthought in terms of substantive infrastructure is well underway.

They will have their way with Lebanon for awhile and then the blue helmeted UN will move into a buffer zone large enought to keep those Katyusha missiles out of range. Hezbollah will have had its nads cut off for a while anyway.

Collateral casualties? yes. Fortunes of war merely. Let the cliches about the horrors go on.

All that matters is that we win.

Israel/U.S ....1... Hezbollah Zip/zero/nada. Iraqi insurgency.....given pause to think that we are not backing down. They now simply kill each other at a frightening rate. Even that will eventually grow old to them.

This is terrible. My first post and it has nothing to do with Triumphs.
The war in Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with a "war on terror." Please mention just one thing that any Iraqi has ever done to an American. We initially invaded Iraq in 91 because of Iraqs invasion into Kuwait. If Kuwait had been Sudan or Indonesia we would have never acted.
Back to this war. Again I ask what has any Iraqi done to any American prior to our invasion in 91. Hell, Rumsfeld has photos of himself and Hussein together.
We MUST never forget 15 of the 19 terrorists on 9-11-01 were from Saudi Arabia. The country who uses our gas money to foment hatred of the West especially America. BTW, their King happens to be friends with the Bush family.
Okay, 15 of the 19 from Saudi, the other 4 must be from Iraq right? No, not a one was from Iraq and the 9-11 commission stated there was no connection between Iraq and 9-11.
With that said, I have been reading this forum for a month and I thoroughly enjoy the posts. I just could not let this one go by...sorry

Yeah! what he said, and what Cat said and what Bigbill said.

wow! that was easy.

OK, Saddam wrote checks to the families of suicide bombers. Saddam’s intel folks met with Osama and his boys to talk strategy and they jointly set up a terrorist training camp. Saddam killed tens of thousands with poison gas and now reports of finding gas are finally getting out. (Funny how poison gas is longer a WMD.) As for Saddam killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, I guess that was OK and we should have just kept our mouths shut, after all, they are just Arabs so who cares. Unless of course it's Israel doing it in response to terrorist attacks, in which case it's at least equivalent to the Holocaust.

LA I feel a little tension in your post. No need for that.
Osama was originally supported by the US to defeat the old USSR. Therefore we cannot attack someone based on past friendships.
Saddam did kill 1000's, but so has KIm Jung Il in North Korea. It is estimated millions are dying because of his failed policies and for political retribution. What about the genocide in Rwanda that was almost 1 million. What about presently in the Sudan, again 100's of thousands.
Stalin was the most brutal of all responsible for tens of millions of deaths. China currently has untold thousands in camps.
Again, what did Saddam do to America? I am not saying Saddam is a good guy, absolutely not. Those suicide bombers did not attack us and it has been settled, there was NO connection between Iraq and 9-11. Bush has said it, the 9-11 commission has said it.
Why did we not invade Saudi Arabia where we know they foment hatred for us? 15 of the 19 were from there.
The president and his neo cons so sold this connection when they knew and finally now admit there was none. Sorry.
PS...I did not mention Israel at all. The original post postulated that Bush was right. I say history will prove that not true.

The royal family of Saudi Arabia wrote checks to suicide bombers. They are our favorite friends. The royal family and the Bin Ladens love to visit their friend GW. Matter of fact they were here on September 11, 2001 and we allowed them to fly home. Oh, that Osama, boys will be boys I guess. Let me clear your flight for you, no need to stay and explain.

Thats why Clinton didn't take him in 95 and thats why we have never caught him now. We don't want to catch him. The Osama connection and our inability to bring him to justice simply rings out so clearly, I am amazed nobody sees it.

3 days cease fire in Tora Bora! Okay Osama we will stop shooting, go ahead and get over that mountain to Pakistan.

Bush and his Halliburton buddies are all f^&*ing As&*(@s. Those of U who believe in him have already been LOBOTIMIZED. This subject is so divisive it is common on a Triumph billboard website. MY TBA IS A PICE OF RESPITE FROM THE WORLD, MY JOB, (ATTENDING TO THE MENTALLY ILL IN CRISIS EMERGENCY ROOMS ACROSS CT) I WILL NEVER READ ANY SUBJECTS THAT ADDRESS THIS ISSUE AND WISH THE WEB MASTERS OF THIS SITE WOULD NOT ALLOW IT EITHER. When I'm in my 70's 2026 and the American children born in this century are still dying in the Middle East and the oil companies (gas $ 10.00 a gallon) continue to accumulate record profits I hope all the Bush buddies are happy. The children born in the 21st Century will be paying a heinous price for the Bush administration bumbling Foreign Policy. Oh yea Iraq is better off with “Almost 6,000 civilians died in Iraq in May and June, according to a United Nations report. The deaths coincide with waves of crime and attacks from insurgents.” A BETTER SUBJECT TO ADDRESS: HOW ARE ALL THE AMERICAN CITIZEND OF THE GULF COAST ADJUSTING AFTER ONE YEAR??????? BILLIONS FOR TURMOIL IN IRAQ OR FOR THE AMERICAN CITIZEND OF THE GULF COAST, YOU DECIDE. A BETTER SUBJECT TO ADDRESSHOW ARE ALL THE AMERICAN CITIZEND OF THE GULF COAST ADJUSTING AFTER ONE YEAR??????? BILLIONS FOR TURMOIL IN IRAQ OR FOR THE AMERICAN CITIZEND OF THE GULF COAST, YOU DECIDE.

Thanks DW, for pointing out the apparent hypocrisy of our actions.
Sure, Saddam is a dirtbag and I don't think anybody disagrees with that. But our Government (under Dems and Reps) has installed and supported numerous dirtbags.
And the genocides in sub-Saharan Africa are appalling, yet we stay out of there too. It must be something else. Hmmmm, oil maybe?.

Nice to see another voice of reason here .

Jonathan, I appreciate your views and please express them whenever the urge hits you. I also appreciate your frustration at some of the divisiveness.
Quite some time ago there was a long discussion on the board about whether or not controversial subjects should be allowed in the lounge. It was decided that they should be, as this board is a microcosm of many different countries and diverse viewpoints. Since this is a virtual lounge, where we can kick back with a drink and have (sometimes) intelligent discussions about many different ideas (and yes, there are only so many times you can talk about jetting, pipes, tires and the undeniable fact of the superiority of black Speedmasters) very few subjects are taboo. When things start to get a little rough, the mods will step in and shut down the thread (they sometimes share your frustration), but the fact is we do have very different ideas, and expressing them and (for some of us) listening to other viewpoints is a growing experience.

Hmmm, some interesting povs here, some are quite disheartening. The copperheads have done well.

An off topic forum for political/current events would be a nice addition to take from the lounge this type of discussion, but in no way should these discussions/topics end, they are good and necessary.

Good for what?

Maybe this is our form of play oh, and while you are here, Kevin hurt my feelings

I told on you Kevin, nananabooobooo

Our friends on this board from around the world must think we are absolutely out of our minds.

I could care less about what the rest of the world thinks. The free exchange of ideas is paramount to the success of a free state, and in no other nation in this world do the people actually control their own nation. The American democracy was designed to have ideas clash, to flush out the bad and work to the middle. Change takes work, and happens in increments, not as a explosion. I hate ( not personally, but their pov ) those who decry the turmoil in democracy, who think it messy and all, they simply demostrate that they have little understanding of their own govt.

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Our friends on this board from around the world must think we are absolutely out of our minds.

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Eeeh... Well...

Based on my previous post, some examples if I may,

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I could care less about what the rest of the world thinks.

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This is normal.

Quote:

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... and in no other nation in this world do the people actually control their own nation.

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This is entertaining.

Quote:

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The American democracy was designed to have ideas clash, to flush out the bad and work to the middle. Change takes work, and happens in increments, not as a explosion. AND ....they simply demostrate that they have little understanding of their own govt.

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This could be perceived as educational (given further examination).

All war sucks. That's why they only draft young men, old men would say screw this. If you want to see why we are at war, just look at how much $ Bush and Halliburton have made. Follow the money. 2,500+ good men all dead. Probably many thousands of civilians. $420 Billion dollars could feed a lot of the worlds children and improve the education of thousands more. Sneaking around, blowing sh--t up and killing M----F-----. What a waste. Support our troops----Bring them home now. Let Bush and Halliburton fight their own war. By Jim Dunn A Viet Nam Vet. Bush's flunkies will probably put me under survelance now. Is free speach dead?

Support the troops by bringing them home? How lame!Are they not employed to do the job they are doing? They are fighting to keep us free, to take on the terrorists overseas, not here in the USA. So, you would prefer to bring them home and then invite the terrorists here to take us on? DO you not understand that they are testing our resolve, and to cut and run is akin to surrender and invties much more bloodshed ( like in Spain, they ran, they got attacked )? We are not Europe with defenses so weak that they cant protect themselves. They prefer diplomacy only to contemplate how to better surrender. Thank God that the UK and Poland have stepped up and understand the historical battle that we are in. This is only the beginning,on the newest chapter, Islamic totalitarianism is a beast hungry for conquest, similar and really no different than the Nazis on the mid 20th century.

Great post. Surprisingly a lot of people refuse to be informed by history. Today’s Islamofacists are simply following in the footsteps of their ancestors. When Mohammed’s followers conquered the Middle East they did so with the Koran’s blessing. Entire nations were put to the sword. Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus and all pagans were killed, forced into exile or forcibly converted to Islam. The few that remained survived in Dhimmitude, a permanent status of legally and socially enforced subservience to Islam. Islam was spread by the sword, not by missionaries. It spread as far as France and Austria, and was only stopped by military force. Anyone who thinks we can resist a resurgent Islamic militancy by retreating to our shores and burying our heads in the sand needs to read the history of Islamic expansion, the writings of our self proclaimed enemies and the Koran itself.

Actually, the Islamofacists are worse than the Nazis. Unlike Hitler, they can legitimately claim a religious mandate to do what they are doing. A Manifest Destiny to conquer the entire world is clearly spelled out in the Koran and supported by the Hadiths and Islamic tradition. Similarly, any weakness or hesitancy on our part is described, IN SCRIPTURE, as an opportunity for them to further the cause of Islamic ascendancy.

Fortunately, most Moslems want to live in peace. Most want to enjoy the blessings of freedom and prosperity just as we do. The forces of religious totalitarianism are who we are fighting in Iraq, those who would put the whole world under the heel of a global Taliban. The majority of Afghans rejoiced to be free of the Taliban and most Iraqis were glad to be free of the secular dictator Saddam. The average Moslem is no more content to live under despotism than anyone else. But like the Japanese, who had also never tasted liberty prior to 1945, they need a chance to build something better. If we cut and run now we are not only condemning hundreds of millions to the darkest of tyrannies, we are inviting that tyranny to marshal it’s forces until it is strong enough to come after us.

To characterize the Iraq war as somehow being a philosophical and moral fight is to re-characterize what hill of beans we were sold in the first place. At every turn of bad news, the neo-cons reframe the conflict. And what war? We ran the Iraqi army over in less than a month. We were not prepared for the occupation that the neo-cons had planned all along, with their absurd image of roses being thrown at our soldiers’ feet.

No worry, just rewrite the “Mission Accomplished” scenario for clichéd masses—frame our missteps in glorious flag-draped hyperbole—you’re not with us; you’re a traitor. What shallow bs, just like the cowards running the show from Washington; the Chicken Hawks will get there place in history. Future generations will see how we did finally get the government we deserved. Not to worry, let the poor and disadvantaged defend our freedom—no sacrifice for the slobbering fatheads sitting on the couch watching the psychobabble emanate from the FOX box: “were fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here” mantra, which escapes the logic of numbers. Not to worry rich college student person, let the others "defend our freedom." If this is such a moral and patriotic occupation, why aren't the recruiting offices jam with our best? we know the reason, it's neither...



cat
cheny and co

Phil,

Sorry ol' boy, but it seems to me that YOU just don't "get it anymore" when it comes to these posts that Kevin, Larry or a few others of our vast membership start on a somewhat irregular basis!(oh, I remember the day you and I.....well, THAT'S another story, my ol' WSJ reading chum)

I guess that YOU'VE FORGOTTEN that as of yet there is no COMEDY FORUM in which to place some of these heartfelt thoughts.

So, seeing as how YOU, the OFFICIAL ADMINISTRATOR of this fine site, has YET to deem an appropriate forum in which to post "JOKES"(such as these reports about our President and his alleged "insights" into the world of geopolitics...which BTW are ALWAYS good for a few belly-laughs around here) , I sense that YOU seem the SOLE responsible party for these posts that seem to pop up continually on "The Lounge".


So in closing, I URGE you to rectify this dilemma at your earliest possible convenience!

Cheers,
Dwight
(in other words..come on, man! Get on the stick, ol' boy!!!)

We are still doing a fine job in Iraq despite the naysayers who verbalize cowardice with every living breath they take.

Sure, I think some misconceptions on the degree and intensity of the "insurgency" were underestimated but that is so typical in the fog of war.

The tendency to operate with kid gloves on instead of fully releasing the "dogs of war" is in part responsible for the insurgency.

I do believe that once engaged in war it is best to "give them all they can handle and a little more"

As General Sherman said during his march to the sea....
"War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it" Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta, prior to Burning the City.

Perhaps if we had done a little more destroying during the days directly after the intitial military successes we might have limited the insurgency simply by burning and destroying enough cities and enclaves to the extent that places to hide might have been absent.

That is the price paid for being PC during war.

Our casualties have been minimal to this point as I see it and others with much more expertise than I would agree.

At this point they (the insurgents) kill far more locals each day. All that is needed is to hold the line and support the democratically elected government of Iraq.

To run away like a crippled yellow dog is not the answer.



Our military is still a "volunteer force" and still very dedicated to the task at hand.

The perception that most of our military is nothing but lower income types who enlisted just for a job is premature and incorrect.

The officer corps is well educated and all volunteer just as the enlisted crew is.

As for a draft. We may need one someday.

Chicken Hawks? I guess that would include Abraham Lincoln who only served a few weeks in the militia and never saw combat. Wilson, who never served in the military but led us into WWI. Most especially FDR who, like Wilson, did everything he could to get us entangled in a world war while at the same time espousing peace. Unless you’re suggesting that all decisions concerning whether or not to go to war should be made by active duty military officers (so much for civilian control) it might be time to give that particular slur a rest.

i don't think you want to compare Abe, WW, and FDR to Bush-- not a good strategy. the civil war, ww1 and ww2 are not the Iraq War-- it's now an occupation. we won the war in a few weeks. Mission Accomplished. the war on terror is like the war on drugs. it's a package of marketing. Make it abstract and they'll buy it. these people are better at dbl speak than Orwell predicted.

Hey, I just don't trust the neo-cons judgment. If I think they're dangerous, then I would be a bad American if I were to withhold my judgment. Most people in the country don't believe these neo-cons are doing a good job, but the bushies continue to fill our ears with hopeless and pointless dribble, as though we just don't get it, that we're too stupid to understand the greatness we are about to embark on. their condesending tone is almost infantile... so much for civilian control.

we control nothing until novemeber, then their might be some changes-- but don't underestimate the neo-cons, they'll preach the "cut and run anti-flag fag lefties will bring this country down" mantra until they're red in the face.

So how much do we trust the Bushies when they come up with the wmd in Iran? Will the world go along with them? this country is becoming what it hates. all truths contain elements of their opposites.

And while those neo-cons continue to ignore their own generals, why would we not slur the dummies. it's kept pretty quiet, but some things still leak out. this group is so inept as to be a danger to us.

i fear these neo-cons much more than the terrorists right now. and that is the truth, and i'm not alone. it's always the person who's doing it for our own good that we should fear. this country has a long history of helping other people to death. the bush doctrine comes to mind.

cat

Well Cat. You can thank God we Neocons will be around when they come for you.

I promise we will save your hide for you. Whether you like it or not.

Okay! OKAY! I TAKE BACK the 120 I.Q. thing that I mentioned before!!!!

After having to look at this picture o' Kevin's hero....I'll settle for ANYONE with AT LEAST a friggin' one hundred and TEN I.Q., NEXT TIME!!!!!

Cheers,
Dwight