Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods TDC for cams?

Grrrrrrrrrrr this is starting to get me urinated off, ok not starting, already there.
For the life of me I cannot find anywhere in the manual that tells the CORRECT procedure for putting the speedmaster at TDC. It is spelled out nice and clear for the Bonnies and T100s, but not the 270 crank which is at 270º therefore not the same!
I called chy about it last time I looked at the bike, but I don't think the right cylinder should be at TDC, maybe the left should. Trouble is the manual says to line up the "line" on the rotor with the case line, but I have TWO lines, one says L, the other R, natch. I can't figure which one I should use, the firing order is left to right, 1-2, so maybe I am retarded and should just go with the left?
I need an exact absolute answer if anyone has it.
I's sitting here staring at the screen so I can get back to work. It's been a long weekend and I haven't gotten around to finishing it because of the holiday and such. Time to Git Er Done!

Pat, don't know that I'll be much help, but the photo in the manual shows using the front edge on the rotor to line up the TDC. Also, it shows a small tab on top of the Alternator rotor(when the rotor is aligned properly), if there is not an identical one on the opposite side of the rotor, this may be helpful. But, you are right, it doesn't seem to say anywhere which cylinder will be at TDC at this point. GOOD LUCK!

Just got an email for the wild swede, he says to use the left, then the R mark lines up at 12 o'clock which matches your description of the case mark and the alternator nub.

Pat,
I think I may have a newer version of the service manual then you do. Mine includes the Thruxton as well as the rest of the Bonneville line. According to my manual it's fairly clear;
(this is directly from the manual)

4.) On America & Speedmaster, the alternator rotor has two lines, marked 'L' & 'R'. Align the line marked 'L' on the alternator rotor with the crankcase joint at the front of the rotor to bring the engine to its timing position.

Hope this helps.
If you want the associated pictures just let me know and I'll either scan them or copy and fax them.

Keith

Pat, Jango just went thru this with his BB Upgrade... Maybe he can shed some light on the subject.

We finally rode last night for the first time since Jan.

Keith,
Thanks, thats what I needed to hear. I guess I set it up wrong and now gotta pull the top again to check things out.
Oh well, someday I'll get it all together. Its supposed to snow later in the week anyway. I just take my time and make sure it's right.

Edit: For clarification I want to say that when I called chy he figured should use the left, but Mr know-it-all (that be me) figured it should be the right since the book shows the right being setup on the cams.
Don't want ya to think he gave me bad info!

Dinqua, You and I are doing exactly the same mods and I wondered if you would run into the same issue I did. The book is unclear and after talking to many I finally realized this. It is on the L mark and what happens is the left cylinder goes to TDC but the picture description does not tell you that. Once I figured it out it was easy. BY the way be very carefull with the banjo nuts. They break easy and fall into the effin hole which I did not cover. Grrr I was ready to flip the bike upside down and shake the bastard out. As it was the copper washer is down in there still.

By the way. I am up and running with big bore and cams and it feels real good. Woody type good. New lights, mirrors, cut fenders. ****** thing looks and runs great. Dyno in 500 miles plus after a little tunning and will advise on my results. I left the Truxtons needles out although I have them until I find out what pilots or setups are the Truxton carbs. Any ideas anyone?

jango,
Thanks for the input. If I would have listened to chy I would be riding around already too. But Nooooo, I hadda do it my way. As it sits now I need to again remove the cams and realign the cam chain gear and stuff again. I will do a compression test on the cylinders too and check to valve specs again to be sure I didn't buggar anything up. With my luck (all bad these days) I did and will probably have to replace a few exhaust valves. Expensive lesson may be in store for me. Friggin service manual, I'd like to meet the guy that did it and neglected this part of critical information.
And oh yea, one of the stupid little bolts that holds the cam oiler assembly may also be stripped. Probably have to tap it out and fine a slightly bigger banjo bolt too now. I can't believe how cheesy the al-U-minnie-um cam caps are. And of course they cannot be purchased seperatly, you need to buy a new cylinder head assembly to get them. sigh...

I had my share of issues as well with the " al-U-minnie-um" and about stripped a lot of stuff. Yup I am a little heavy handed from working on large equipment. I really screwed up the bolt the holds in place the cam chain and gear. I opted for the green threadlock. It is not coming out ever again. Be very aware that in the R position the exhaust do hit the cylinders. I had resistance with stock cams but really knew it with the performance cam. They do hit the piston tops. Fortunately I was not heavy handed there and that was when I found out this TDC line up was out of wack. I seem to be running ok and no parts are flying off "knock on wood" running around town. Only put about 10 miles on it and taking it easy for the first hndred. I did get on it a bit and all I gotta say is wow. I was so pissed at one point I almost bought that speedmaster engine that was on EBay. Thank God for beer.

jango,
Don't know about you but I would be worry about the washer, even if it is just copper. I would try taking the sump pan off, it's most likely right there anyway. When you change to the synthetic oil I would do it for sure.
What oil did you put in to do the new breakin? I was gonna use the Shell Rotella Dino for about 200 miles then back to the Amsoil or the Rotella T Synthetic.
Anyway, I feel like a complete marroon for screwing up the cam alignment. But I can always blame the manual. I did go to the dealer at lunch today and they inserted my backlash retainer for me, used the R3 tool by the way. I also went home and measured the valve gaps per jojje's suggestion to see if anything was bent - nope! Good to go, exact same specs as before. Appears I dodged one this time. Wheew, big relief. Now to get it done, supposed to be 65ºF+ and sunny next couple days too.

Pat ,
I know how you feel it can be very frustrating. Don't take this the wrong way but in a way it sorta relieves me to see that you guys are having some trouble - it makes me feel like I'm not the only one out there screwing things up and getting frustrated.

Also remember two things;
A lot of us look up to you and the few other guys who have really gotten into doing these mods and upgrades. You guys sort of give us the courage to take on more of our own maintenance and upgrade tasks and do things we would otherwise be paying the dealer big $$$ to do.

Second, you are blazing the trail for everyone else. You have no one to tell you "watch out for this or be careful of that". You're finding all the mistakes in the service manual because you're one of the first guys to use it to this extent.

So when you get frustrated just remember there are a lot of us out here pulling for you guys to make this stuff work and find most of the potholes and pit-falls along the way so we of lesser talents won't fall in them when it's our turn.

Thanks,

Keith

I did drop the pan and will likely again when I change oils to synthetic. Copper as soft as it is is very forgiving so I am not too too concerned. It will probably make it's way to the pan. I went with 20W 50 Castrol. I am not too concerned about the break in oil. Afterwards I'm guessing likely the Amsoil. Not sure what the dealer sells but I think it is the Amsoil. My backlash retainers are in a box next to the bike. The people I bought the cams from never put them in and told me they never do on the cams they sell. I have a little more noise than normal but will see what happens after a little more time. I did have to put all new shims on the exhaust buckets. The intakes remained the same. I will keep you posted on how things go. By the way did you have trouble torqueing the heads? Some torqued fine and others kept turning. My dealer told me they have had issues with that. I dropped the setting some before I twisted one off. I was lucky there.

I too feel like an idiot missing the gear alignment but I have never done a bike engine before. That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it. And the manual was not clear.

keith,
Good points, it makes me feel better. I will defenitely list all the pitfalls and mishaps when I finish my writeup, and there are several others that I haven't mentioned yet.
I'm still hoping I am safe to go, I will still be worried until I pull the headers and take a peek with my light inside at the valves themselves. Fingers are crossed and I have been thanking the bike Gods all afternoon. The last thing I want to do now is pull the cylinder head off for a 3rd time. I forgot the stupid breather tube the first time I had it about 90% re-assembled. Grrrr, had to tear it all down again just to put that sucker back in. Almost broke my foot kicking the tree in the backyard at midnight for that one. Woke the kids up with the swearing too.

Jango:
I had no problems torquing my head nuts down either. Them babies are tight!

Keith, good points indeed. I too have had my frustrations and I have been apart since January 7th for one reason or another. Dinqua you are the man. And like Keith said we all do look up to you and others. Your program by the way was excellent and worked well for shimming. Oh and the comment you made about the washer on the cam chain shaft. About being effed if you drop it. Done that too. I never kicked a tree but I had to walk away before I torched it. Went as far as pricing new bikes. Your report will help many.

Pat, if logic is followed, YOU would be right. After all, the Bike is built in England, where they drive backwards, so why shouldn't Right be the right one (per the factory), when logic tells us colonials that Left is logical. Must have been a Yankee working as a temp on the line that day....