 Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Al
DFW, TX
'03 Triumph America
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
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I have grown tired of the helmet debate. My final word is that I would wear a helmet 99% of the time even if it was not the law. However, it has to be a choice! It has to be my choice, not the goverments.
How come nobody ever talks about the moron in a car that rear ends a bike or cuts off a bike in traffic? Why do they always make every accident involving a bike, the bikes fault no matter what? And then they say, "Well, if he was wearing a helmet". Oh yea, that's right, I forgot, if the rider was wearing a helmet it makes it completely ok for a car to hit a biker.
It's getting very tiring.
Soren
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Old Hand
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Old Hand
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Looks more to me like a video promoting the case for not riding/driving with yer head up yer bum. Now, where is the publicity for the OTHER studies? The ones that found that helmets also are instrumental in: Having more accidents for a variety of reasons. 1. blocked peripheral vision. 2. heat/weight induced fatigue. 3. false sense of security. 4. aerodynamic head twisting/buffeting at critical times. Transfering injuries to other vital body parts such as neck and spines. You wouldn't need any helmets, airbags, crumble zones (really little more than justification for making flimsy tinfoil cars) or any of that crap if the police could trouble themselves to start enforcing age old laws that make it safer to drive. How often do you see a string of cars driving at 70 - 80 MPH in a 65 zone 10 feet apart with a patrol car there, not ticketing anyone for tailgating, but driving along just like the rest, except he's following 5 feet behind? 
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
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Amen, Amen, to that.... Ever since Big Ben wrecked his Rothlisburner, we have been inundated with helmet B.S. in every media source. Just reading some of the tripe from all the "experts" makes my blood boil. The only good thing to come out of this is the fact that it seems to have made the general public more aware of the presence of motorcycles on the roads. At least I thought so til some airhead cellphone SUV mama pulled out in front of me today, slammed on her brakes, and made a left turn........... 
More flags
More fun!
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527 |
Ditto in spades. I am sick and tired of all the expert "safety nazis" and their self rightious BS for the last week.
I'll wear or not wear a lid as I see fit if and when I do or do not want to in the state of Az. If I die in the combat zone then .....cross my arms around my chest and send my body home to Mom.
But I dinna wanna hear any more BS helmet crapola. !!
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 60
Member
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Member
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Don't usually chime in and don't want to pi$$ anyone off but...here it is " HELMETS SAVE LIVES " period! The debate is not who is at fault, there are s**thead car drivers out there, and I've seen just as many A-hole bikers doing stupid things. Bottom line is when your head hits the ground...is it protected or not. I've been there and done it at 70 mph. Yes my back is screwed up and will be for life, yes my knee is screwed up and will be for life, both have healed to the point of usability and rideability. My helmet had a 4 inch gash 1/2 inch deep, I can't even fathom what might have happened to me if I had no helmet on. Today I spent a great day out riding with my wife.  She bought us both new helmets for my birthday last month at my request, ours were a bit shoddy. That poor dude in the video don't look like he's ever riding anywhere again...  you choose, NUFF SAID.
Never Stumble When You Run With A Pack Of Wolves!!!
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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"you choose".... That's the point.... 
More flags
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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In the overall scheme of things, I agree, helmets can save lives.
I also think that
not smoking can save lives
exercising can save lives
not eating fast food can save lives
banning firearms could save lives
Wait a minute, here's an idea: If we outlawed riding a motorcycle, we could save thousands of lives a year!
Bob
04 Speedmaster
07 Ulysses
16 Sportster Roadster
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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It's fascinating how many of the people here (and on the other helmet threads) who "don't want the gubment tellin' me wut to do", are the same ones who want the government to restrict free speech on a previous topic. Just an observation  .
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Helmet saved me from a persistent vegetative state in 1983. Riding my 74 Bonneville, I got clipped by a car pulling out of a parking spot. At that point I figured MC's are safer than bicycles. I never would have had a helmet if I had been on a 10-speed. Back then, I might have been going just as fast! Ahhh the good old days of youth and wasted physical conditioning!
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one.
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
People should choose not to rob people or shoot eachother or rape people or many other things we have laws against too. But some people do it, that's why we have laws. I know a helmet is a much different story, but I also think a LOT of the debate is people just don't like being told what to do, even if it's the right thing to do.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527 |
Quote:
It's fascinating how many of the people here (and on the other helmet threads) who "don't want the gubment tellin' me wut to do", are the same ones who want the government to restrict free speech on a previous topic.
Just an observation .
And what ..pray tell ole Bill might that be? Whatever it is I am sure the analogy you presume is not a close justification.
Its just like a liberal to think in this obviously skewed manner. One does not equal the other Bill.
Think about it. To want the gubment to restrict idiot scumbag &&&&suckers who toil in an effort to use so called free speech to defame our military dead is not analagous with an indvidual taking umbrage with a helmet law.
Get real.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Ok... this is really my final word on this... Wearing a hemet does not prevent accidents. Regardless if it is the riders fault or the drivers fault, wearing a helmet does not prevent accidents.
Soren
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Exactly. Hlemets will not prevent accidents. Only YOU can prevent forest fires and or accidents. In the case of motorcycle accidents no amount of armor, helmetry, draggin jeans, titanium underwear, fancy schmancy jackets...none of that will save your keister if you just happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and some four wheeled wonder hits you at a high rate of speed. You will be just as dead as if you were riding in your freaking birthday suit.
Once again ...it is in states where the law allows....A PERSONAL CHOICE.
In states where helmets are optional thousands of motorcyclists are all riding right now without helmets. They represent a cross section of all of us..professionals, ditch diggers, doctors, lawyers, soldiers, sailors, young men, old men and women....and we can sure assume they are all intelligent to a degree and informed on the benefits of safety gear of all types.
It just means they CHOOSE to live a little free for the moment.
Some of us regardless of who or where we live and what we do for a living CHOOSE to willingly take the risk. We should be able to do so without any Safety Gestapos continually lecturing us when some celelbrity football weenie gets hurt. Remember if John Doe gets hurt no one gives a rats nest nor will it elicit any undue controversy ...it wont even make the front page of most local newspapers.
We might as well stay in bed all day and simply not venture out at all.
IN other words...all safety Nazis are hereby invited to Kiss my nether regions.
Last edited by clanrickarde; 06/17/2006 10:00 AM.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,685 Likes: 20 |
Gear, gear, gear! I grew up on motorcycles. The bike shop had about 3 helmets on display, all from Bell. Nobody bought them.
We rode naked bikes with aviator glasses, T-shirts and jeans. We loved it, we loved life, we were alive.
We ride because it gives us a feeling of freedom. If you want to own a dresser that looks like a rolling house, put on all your leathers, boots, and lids go for it.
But on the flip side --------------- you have no moral athority for what others wear or don't wear. ......period...
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Quote:
It's fascinating how many of the people here (and on the other helmet threads) who "don't want the gubment tellin' me wut to do", are the same ones who want the government to restrict free speech on a previous topic.
Just an observation .
And what ..pray tell ole Bill might that be? Whatever it is I am sure the analogy you presume is not a close justification.
Its just like a liberal to think in this obviously skewed manner. One does not equal the other Bill.
Think about it. To want the gubment to restrict idiot scumbag &&&&suckers who toil in an effort to use so called free speech to defame our military dead is not analagous with an indvidual taking umbrage with a helmet law.
Get real.
So sorry if the analogy went over your head Kevin.
It's all about government restricting freedom. And I am actually with you on the helmet thing, should be your choice, of course I will always choose to wear a helmet. I'm apalled to think that a "conservative" would really think that the right to become a vegetable is more important than the right to criticize the actions of the government in any non-violent way. Oh. Wait. I forgot about your leader.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
By Jove!!!!! I think he's got it!!!!!   .
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Mar 2006
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It is and has been legal. (freedom that is) not soemthing that liberals comprehend to any degree but its been legal for some time ...even before George Dubya...who BTW is doing his level best to keep it that way..... Ole Geroge is saving Big bills keister whether he likes it or not.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
I've ridden without a helmet and I must admit I enjoyed it. The wind blowing, the sound of the exhaust and freedom of it were great. By the same token, having sex without a condom with a woman you don't know is pleasurable too but, like riding without a helmet, there are some risks inherent to the activity. Each of us must weigh the risks versus the rewards ourselves and make the decision that suits us. Although I must admit, riding without a helmet would probably get me in a lot less trouble with my wife.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
It is and has been legal. (freedom that is) not soemthing that liberals comprehend to any degree but its been legal for some time ...even before George Dubya...who BTW is doing his level best to keep it that way.....
Ole Geroge is saving Big bills keister whether he likes it or not.
It must be nice to be able to live in denial by applying simplistic labels to those with whom you disagree.
Ole George (I'm probably an "elitist" because I spelled it correctly) has done more to erode the freedom of the citizens of this country under the guise of "security" than any in recent history. His attempts at shutting up those who oppose him are well known, but fortunately quite transparent, so that the majority can see just what he's doing. Unfortunately, every leader has his acolytes who endorse anything and everything that he wants out of blind allegiance.
Most of us are smarter than that.
Oh BTW, the whole definition of "political correctness" that you like to assign to the "Liberals", is to make it unacceptable to offend anyone. That's exactly what Bush is trying to do by making it illegal to be offensive at military funerals. Sorry Kevin, but the right is as "PC" as the left, they're just offended by different things.
Dumb, Dumber, Dubya.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
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True, helmets save lives. Also true is that they take a few more than they save.
The real reason behind insurance companies back helmet legislation? CA is a typical case. When the helmet law went in, new bike registrations dropped some 38%. Number of miles ridden dropped over 50%. Lots of long time riders left the state, the group who typically have the fewest accidents. Motorcycle deaths went down some 25%, and the CHP carried on as if the larger reduction in miles ridden didn't make that a net increase in deaths per mile. A study sponsored by the MMA (and quickly hidden by the gvt) also showed there was a slight increase in deaths per accident. The insurance companies know very well that lid or no lid doesn't make a whole lot of difference overall. They also know that a lot of people will ride less if at all, depriving their idiot cage driving customers of very expensive targets. In the long run, the insiurance companies want you to die in a crash, it is often cheaper than rebuilding survivors.
Sure, there are individuals here and there who were in the right circumstances that their lid saver their arse. Unfortunately, there are a few more there and here that would have faired better without. In all, the difference is slight, but real and it favours not wearing a lid. It varies from year to year, but it us usually around a 4% greater chance that you will be in a crash if you wear a lid, and around a 3% greater chance you will either die or be paralysed.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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I'd like to see where those stats came from... It's not that I don't believe you, but you know what they say about statistics. I mean there are probably people who wreck on some back road, their head (with helmet) hits the pavement and they get up and ride away. It never gets reported or added to some tally somewhere, and nobody is the wiser. Whereas if they didn't have a lid, they'd be in an ambulance getting added to the other tally.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Wish I could remember if it was Pensylvania or Delaware, but one of them had a helmet law then repealed it. Studies showed no decrease in deaths when factored for drivers and bike numbers over the years with a helmet law. They also noted periferal vision issues on some models of helmets (full faced). Two of the years they had an increase and attributed that to broken necks when the chin area of the helmet was hit.
It appears the first vital organ to stop working is the brain with head trauma so it was listed as cause of death but the statistical forms never asked the medical examiner if he would have lived with a helmet considering his neck was broken, both legs, flailed chest, internal injuries etc.
Many of the studies also claimed helmetless death on all deaths when in fact the guy was cut to ribbons by a truck and they had to pick up pieces. Everybody that dies without a helmet didn't die because they didn't have one. But everybody that didn't have one was included in helmetless death statistics.
I do think helmets save more lives than they take. I still say the stats don't matter. I say ride your own bike and respect the guy thats riding his.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
I'd like to see where those stats came from... It's not that I don't believe you, but you know what they say about statistics. I mean there are probably people who wreck on some back road, their head (with helmet) hits the pavement and they get up and ride away. It never gets reported or added to some tally somewhere, and nobody is the wiser. Whereas if they didn't have a lid, they'd be in an ambulance getting added to the other tally.
I agree Benny. Any post citing statistics should have a link. Otherwise, it's just hearsay.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Quote:
It appears the first vital organ to stop working is the brain with head trauma so it was listed as cause of death but the statistical forms never asked the medical examiner if he would have lived with a helmet considering his neck was broken, both legs, flailed chest, internal injuries etc.
I think it would be nigh on impossible for someone to predict the "if" thing. Even an expert. Unless there was super hi-res slow motion film of the accident, there's no way of telling what could have happened in a with/without helmet scenereo.
Bill, I agree anything without stats to back up is hearsay, but my last post was meant more out of curiosity than anything.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Parachuteist jumps outta plane,
chute fails,
cause of death?
failed chute or the fact he was not wearing a helmet?
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
My dad's drill sergent gave him some good advice. Nothing calls out of the sky except bird sh1t and idiots.
Last edited by bennybmn; 06/19/2006 7:13 PM.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
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And when you hit something on your motorcycle over 50MPH the last thing to go through your mind is your butt.
Cause of death butt traveled faster than brain.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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That's what I'm talking about, Ron.
I think all of us know that in a high speed crash (especially one with an auto or solid object) the most likely cause of death will be internal injuries. The best thing is to avoid them  . At lower speeds and single vehicle accidents, such as lowsiding, the head is more likely to bear damaging impact (my opinion).
Here's a full NHTSA report, I didn't read it all and it's from 2001.
web page
Here's the NHTSA home page:
web page
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Ok, Agreed, helmets and Joe Rocket suits probably won't protect your life. But at least you'll look good at the viewing. The main issue seems to be government intrusion into our lives. Well I don't even think we really care about that too much either. As we seem to keep voting the same ole boys club into office year after year. Change is scary and most of us just don't want to rock the boat to much.
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,074
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Seeing as I don't jump no more would that make me an ex-idiot? I know I wasn't bird doo cause I never went SPLAT!!!!
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Posts: 12,877 |
No I think it makes you smart for stopping Actually I think the guy musta just had it out for the airborn guys. You know how the different branches love to pick on eachother...
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,074
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Ya I know! We called non jumpers LEGS. Cause CHICKENS have legs! All in all it comes down to one thing, Why you do what you do. I jumped cause I wanted to go to Egypt and see the pyramids. And yes, I got to not only see them but got to go INSIDE!!! No way I could have done that at 20 some years old without facing one of my big fears. Heights!!! Would I jump today?  Better be a Rocket III involved!!!!
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
I was lucky enough to do some traveling in college that I wouldn't have otherwise done, and the only fear I had to conquer was stage fright But I hear ya.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,074
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Posts: 1,074 |
I learned a long time ago, as the saying goes, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.  Yet I still hate spiders and snakes! Can't get over those creepy crawly critters!
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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I will never be without a full face helmet for two reasons:
1. I do believe they help prevent serious injury or death far more than being the cause. No one has ever shown me any data to prove otherwise.
2. All active duty members of the military riding motorcycles are required by regulations to wear helmets at all times, whether riding on or off post, as well as full fingered gloves, over the ankle shoes or boots, and wrist to ankle clothing. As a retired soldier subject to recall, I choose to remain subject to that regulation as well.
Keep your powder dry
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Posts: 12,877 |
Let's not forget road debris...
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Okay... I know that everyone is talking about there right to chose and all... but I'm just curious... how many of you who ride without helmets wear your seatbelts?? Why???
"Reality is for people who lack Imagination"
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