 Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Why does every thread always turn into a political pi$$ing match... I know intelligent people debate...but this should be a thread were everyone should agree that the world is a little better off today minus one bad guy...as far as the folks who get soooo worked up over this crap may I suggest, get a hobby, start drinking or maybe try taking a nap...
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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General W. Westmoreland was widely quoted saying, "We have reached an important point, when the end begins to come into view," and in a televised news conference in late 1967, repeating the words of others about a "light at the end of the tunnel" to describe improved U.S. fortunes. Ten weeks later came the Tet Offensive.
Oh yes, the Tet Offensive. General Giap considered it a disaster that almost destroyed the Communist cause. They thought it was the end until they discovered that the US press was covering it as a victory for the VC and NVA and a massive defeat for the US and ARVN forces. I remember the talking heads saying that this proved we could never win when the truth was we had destroyed the Communists ability to fight effectively. This was a case where the military was right and the press was wrong but the press won the argument by relentlessly playing down all good news and playing all bad news as a disaster. I’m sure we’ll see a replay with the Haditha case. It’s funny how the failure to get Osama is portrayed as a major failure but the death of Zarqawi is already being played down as a minor blip.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Thrilled Zarqawi is gone...Let's enjoy a fantastic victory, instead of making it a referendum on Bush for once. And it is a victory.
That was exactly my intent when I started this thread.
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there is usually a good reason that a virgin is a virgin.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Oil Expert
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Quote:
Quote:
General W. Westmoreland was widely quoted saying, "We have reached an important point, when the end begins to come into view," and in a televised news conference in late 1967, repeating the words of others about a "light at the end of the tunnel" to describe improved U.S. fortunes. Ten weeks later came the Tet Offensive.
Oh yes, the Tet Offensive. General Giap considered it a disaster that almost destroyed the Communist cause. They thought it was the end until they discovered that the US press was covering it as a victory for the VC and NVA and a massive defeat for the US and ARVN forces. I remember the talking heads saying that this proved we could never win when the truth was we had destroyed the Communists ability to fight effectively. This was a case where the military was right and the press was wrong but the press won the argument by relentlessly playing down all good news and playing all bad news as a disaster. I’m sure we’ll see a replay with the Haditha case. It’s funny how the failure to get Osama is portrayed as a major failure but the death of Zarqawi is already being played down as a minor blip.
Can you imagine CNN covering Gettsburg?
In Between the Dark and the Light..
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Old Hand
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Okay, I'll tread lightly a little further.
What is the difference between the Tet Offensive and the Battle of the Bulge?
Well, the communists had already infiltrated Hollywood and the press and wouldn't let the Nazis in?
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Can you imagine CNN covering Gettsburg?
For one thing, they wouldn't have taken sides, considering it was Americans against Americans.
Did anyone hear the press conference this morning? When they found out the pig was extracted alive and died while they were acessing his condition to apply first aid, there were a few reporters trying to make it sound like someone shot him.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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It’s funny how the failure to get Osama is portrayed as a major failure but the death of Zarqawi is already being played down as a minor blip.
Minor blip? Heck, it's all the news outlets can talk about.
That however does not remove the fact that attempts to get Bin Laden have been a major failure. After all, the Authorization to use military force, granted by congress days after 9/11, specifically targeted those responsible for the 9/11 attacks, and Bin Laden was the top dog of that attack. Zarqawi was not even a player, and was even an opponent of Al-Quadi at the time. It wasn't until October 2004 that he became a supporter and changed his groups name in response to our invasion of Iraq.
But the timing could not have been better. The administration has been trying to divert attention from things like the illegal domestic surveillance by the NSA, the actions by US soldiers in Iraq resulting in the military initiating 'ethics' training and the use of presidential signings to bypass congressional and legal controls placed on the administration. The recent push for the Marriage Protection Amendment failed to divert much attention, so the timing on Zarqawi was perfect.
Cheers,
Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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"Did anyone hear the press conference this morning? When they found out the pig was extracted alive and died while they were acessing his condition to apply first aid, there were a few reporters trying to make it sound like someone shot him."
No. I had not heard that. Typical and even more damning of the turncoat press. Just a bunch of weasels looking for a story to "further" their careers.
find something to damn the military on and make a name for themselves...ats all that matters to many of em.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
It’s funny how the failure to get Osama is portrayed as a major failure but the death of Zarqawi is already being played down as a minor blip.
Minor blip? Heck, it's all the news outlets can talk about.
That however does not remove the fact that attempts to get Bin Laden have been a major failure. After all, the Authorization to use military force, granted by congress days after 9/11, specifically targeted those responsible for the 9/11 attacks, and Bin Laden was the top dog of that attack. Zarqawi was not even a player, and was even an opponent of Al-Quadi at the time. It wasn't until October 2004 that he became a supporter and changed his groups name in response to our invasion of Iraq.
But the timing could not have been better. The administration has been trying to divert attention from things like the illegal domestic surveillance by the NSA, the actions by US soldiers in Iraq resulting in the military initiating 'ethics' training and the use of presidential signings to bypass congressional and legal controls placed on the administration. The recent push for the Marriage Protection Amendment failed to divert much attention, so the timing on Zarqawi was perfect.
Cheers,
Brad
Point Proven
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Remember, it was the members of the press who killed Lady Di, and have crashed into a number of entertainers cars.
Responsible reporting went out the window when the Times announced that Dewy had been elected president in '48.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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from Scrappleface....bogus of course but deserved sarcasm
June 9, 2006
Democrats Vow to Fight On After Zarqawi Loss
by Scott Ott
(2006-06-09)  As Blackberry devices and cell phones on Capitol Hill hummed with news of the death of terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi yesterday, Congressional Democrats vowed that despite the loss they would fight on in “the war on the war on terror.â€Â
“Zarqawi will be missed because he put a human face on the futility of the illegal U.S. occupation of Iraq,†said one unnamed lawmaker, who assured a reporter that “Democrats are still optimistic. We’re still looking for the silver lining.â€Â
Rep. John Murtha, D-PA, a former Marine and vocal critic of the military occupation of Iraq, immediately denounced “the Zarqawi massacre†and suggested that the F-16 pilot who dropped the bombs had snapped under pressure and murdered the al Qaeda leader “in cold blood.â€Â
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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FYI http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5564Quote:
What will the American people make of this effort to downplay such a significant victory? One would think that they would reward the Democrats for their loyalty by refusing to give them the responsibility for winning a war whose prospects for victory took such a large step forward yesterday.
Downplay the victory? Isn't just the new services.. Bush seems to do a pretty good job as well:
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Zarqawi is dead, but the difficult and necessary mission in Iraq continues. We can expect the terrorists and insurgents to carry on without him. We can expect the sectarian violence to continue.
President Bush, June 8th 2006
and since you brought up Haditha
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5566
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This time, I’m betting the consequences to the press which rushed to judgment will be more disastrous than it was to Dan Rather. I surely hope so.
Sure seems funny that if the whole story is bogus, along with other reports of abuse by military personnel, that:
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The U.S. military on Thursday ordered coalition troops in Iraq to undergo special training in ethics and "the values that separate us from our enemies" in the wake of the Haditha allegations.
Source: Fox News  (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197938,00.html)
Additional sources:
Washington Post
CBS News
And I'm sure you can find others to verify it's accuracy.
Cheers,
Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
Downplay the victory? Isn't just the new services.. Bush seems to do a pretty good job as well:
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Zarqawi is dead, but the difficult and necessary mission in Iraq continues. We can expect the terrorists and insurgents to carry on without him. We can expect the sectarian violence to continue.
President Bush, June 8th 2006
Cheers,
Brad
Right, and what would be said if he crowed about it and called it a "turning point" or "the light at the end of the tunnel" or maybe "mission accomplished?" There is absolutely nothing he could possibly say that would not be immediately attacked.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Loquacious
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resulting in the military initiating 'ethics' training
The LAST thing I want is a "Kinder, gentler" Military...now we got to be politicaly correct when we kill the Mother Fkers...please!!! Lest we forget these are the same SOB's that behead their captives WITH A STEAK KNIFE!!!!! Sawing and hacking their head off while they scream and fight!!!
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Fe Butt
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Right, and what would be said if he crowed about it and called it a "turning point" or "the light at the end of the tunnel" or maybe "mission accomplished?" There is absolutely nothing he could possibly say that would not be immediately attacked.
YEAH! Isn't it GREAT, Larry??? 
The PRESS and the PUBLIC holding our Elected Official's FEET TO THE FREAKIN' FIRE!!!
Ahhhh....That's what I LOVE about AMERICA!!! 
Cheers,
Dwight
(OH CRAP! I said a while back I wasn't gonna get anymore involved in this stupid-a$$ed name-calling thread anymore than I did....well it JUST GOES TA SHOW YA, you just CAN'T trust ANYTHING a guy who's NOT a friggin' Right-Winger would say, HUH?) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Can you imagine an ethics training program for the military under a john kerry admin?
1. Day one. A french officer would be recruited to teach all our guys the proper surrender procedure.
2. All weapons would be issued with no bullets. Any action in the field that might precipitate a need for real bullets would have to come from the CIC before lock and load could proceed.
.....Egads ...unimaginable
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Lest we forget these are the same SOB's that behead their captives WITH A STEAK KNIFE!!!!!No they weren't  Cheers, Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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YES they did!!! I saw the video (and you can too) thats the part they couldn't/wouldn't report. I can't post the web site that has the videos on it here due to the some of the other "adult content" the site has! but it is available to view for any who doubt it (although I would recomend against viewing it!!! it aint holywood and it's all to real)
THE VOICE OF REASON
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Saw that video.. those were not innocent civilians, which is what prompted the military to begin 'ethics' training.. that was kind of the whole point, which I guess you missed Cheers, Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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I've seen it and had to stop watching, to in any way diminish the killing of this murderer, is not only unamerican but inhuman, to take the life of one to save the lives of many innocent people, is the way of the human race,historically. For anyone in the media to show this for anything but what this is, which is a victory for mankind, is completely rediculous and self serving. I am a registered voter, registered as a non partisan, i have always voted for who i believed in and never along party lines, I now find myself being pushed from the left, more than being drawn to the right, by the rediculous actions of the left wing media. but that still puts me right of center, and I know there are a lot of Americans that feel like i do. I want the left wingers to know that people like me who WERE straddling the fence think that a little common sence goes a long way in this world.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Loquacious
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Yeah same site has other videos of these Innocent civilians dancing and passing the head of one of our boys around and showing it off as a trophy...
SOOO not being there and not witnessing the act I think I'll leave the innocent part up to those who were there in the situation at the moment and not to some PR dude who's tring to pander to those back here who think that stacking some naked guys up at Abugrabi is an atrocity....
THOSE pics all made the news complete with the "Thumbs up" shots....yet we "can't see the footage of people jumping to there deaths from the WTC buildings...or for that matter we can't see the footage at all unless your watching some documentry on the history channel..."because it might insite us"!!
AND we can hear about Bill "cigar" and the BJ he got but don't show us how these bastards parade our dead thru the street, or just HOW they "became" dead...
innocent civilians isn't that what they said about the kids in Nam who were killing our boys buy blowing themselves up after one of our guys stoped to help them out....then they come home to "baby killer" comments for defending themselves against those same innocent children....
sorry not buying the innocent part....these people prey upon our PC ness and use it for their own ends at the cost of our boys lives...Line up a bunch of innocents around key targets...then film the carnage and say how "bad" WE are...
sorry war SUCKS and innocents die in them...lets talk "collateral damage" (another nice PC word) during WWII can you IMAGIN being hamstrung by some PC SH!T head ...oh you cant bomb Berlin innocents might get hurt....and lets not even go down the Japanese road!!
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
Quote:
Right, and what would be said if he crowed about it and called it a "turning point" or "the light at the end of the tunnel" or maybe "mission accomplished?" There is absolutely nothing he could possibly say that would not be immediately attacked.
YEAH! Isn't it GREAT, Larry???
The PRESS and the PUBLIC holding our Elected Official's FEET TO THE FREAKIN' FIRE!!!
Ahhhh....That's what I LOVE about AMERICA!!!
Cheers,
Dwight
(OH CRAP! I said a while back I wasn't gonna get anymore involved in this stupid-a$$ed name-calling thread anymore than I did....well it JUST GOES TA SHOW YA, you just CAN'T trust ANYTHING a guy who's NOT a friggin' Right-Winger would say, HUH?)
Finally, an admission that no matter WHAT George W Bush says or does the left is going to attack him. Now please explain why ANYTHNG the left says should be listened to.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Fe Butt
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Stone,
Well, let me clue ya in Bro! NEITHER the extreme Right NOR the extreme LEFT has the CIRCUMSPECTION required to find this COMMON SENSE of which you(and MOST PEOPLE) are longing to find!
Cheers,
Dwight
(okay...NOW that's IT for me here)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Finally, an admission that no matter WHAT George W Bush says or does the left is going to attack him. Now please explain why ANYTHNG the left says should be listened to.
Oh, you mean like how no matter WHAT George W Bush says or does the right is going to support him. Now please explain why ANYTHING the right says should be listened to.
Kind of like Rob saying that if they look Iraqi, they should be taken out, regardless of being innocent or not. Please, give it a rest already!
Cheers,
Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
Finally, an admission that no matter WHAT George W Bush says or does the left is going to attack him. Now please explain why ANYTHNG the left says should be listened to.
Oh, you mean like how no matter WHAT George W Bush says or does the right is going to support him. Now please explain why ANYTHING the right says should be listened to.
Kind of like Rob saying that if they look Iraqi, they should be taken out, regardless of being innocent or not. Please, give it a rest already!
Cheers,
Brad
Question still not answered! As to the second part of your comment, the right was, and still is, all over him on the amnesty for illegals issue.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
Finally, an admission that no matter WHAT George W Bush says or does the left is going to attack him. Now please explain why ANYTHNG the left says should be listened to.
OH CRAP!
I CAN'T FIGGIN' BELIEVE I'm going to respond to you here, Larry...DRAT!!!
I SIR, AM AN EQUAL-OPPORTUNITY "NAYSAYER"...WHENEVER I SEE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE MEASURES UNDERTAKEN IN MY NAME AS AN AMERICAN, BE IT FROM "THE RIGHT" OR "THE LEFT"!!!
now...BYE!
Dwight
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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I'm finding a he!! of alot more common sense on the right side of the fence lately bro because im not stuck on party lines and tend to take a more objective point of view. To set in the middle and look both ways and to look at the history of our country and to look at the reality of the world we live in, and then to see the left wing media bending the truth to fit their agenda, its pretty obvious to us fence straddlers that they are cutting their own throat. and they dont have to be "extreme" either to show their true colors.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Fe Butt
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Stone, my friend!
All I can tell ya is....FEAR has never been conducive to the ulitization of "common sense", pragmatism or realism. And the "Right" seems to me to utilize this emotion far "better" than the "Left". And BOTH extremes are to be watched because of BOTH of their tendencies to capitalize on this strong and sometimes overpowering emotion.
Cheers,
Dwight
(oh....and BTW...I don't "fence sit"...I jump to the side that makes the MOST (common) SENSE for the occassion)
Last edited by Dwight; 06/09/2006 4:31 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Kind of like Rob saying that if they look Iraqi, they should be taken out, regardless of being innocent or not.
Cheers,
Brad
Man, I have read and re-read all of my posts and I'm having a real hard time finding ANYTHING that even REMOTELY looks like that....
nope....
still don't see it....
I even looked to see if you could "cut and paste" to make those words out of my posts.....
nope....
must just be your "soundbite" for the day!...
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
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wot i don't get is why didn't the SAS just go and shoot him the yanks dropped loads of bombs on the guy
must have cost a bomb LOL
one bullit to the head sorted
i think it was a bit of over kill LOL
sorry they just came out that way seriouly they should have got special forcs to shoot him would have been cheaper
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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This seems like a good time for the insertion of a "YAWN!!!" folks. Yes, Zarqawi is dead. No, Al Queda is not going to let up, because it is NOT a centralized organization like a standard Army, with a solid Command and Control structure, but a loose-knit group of like minded terrorists who cooperate and coordinate more than taking orders from certain key individuals. And, we will continue taking swipes at each other because we have a moron for a President, and people blindly following him, just like we have morons in the Democratic Party and those blindly following them. Sooner or later, the rest of us morons will realize that 2 WRONGS (the Democrats AND the Republicans) do NOT make a RIGHT. Till then, the non-stop whining about the "liberal media" on Fox & Friends and Hannity & Colmes, et al, and the incessant sniping by the Pelosis and that crowd will just continue to further divide this country instead of uniting it. The sooner we get a third party that shakes both parties to their cores in an election and gets them to realize that, we the people, are tired of, them the sellouts to special interests (on both sides of the aisle), the better off we as a country will be. With the current administration, and the current crop of politicians in the Congress, there will be no united front in the War on Terror.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2 |
I think what I said was... Quote:
SOOO not being there and not witnessing the act I think I'll leave the innocent part up to those who were there in the situation at the moment and not to some PR dude who's tring to pander to those back here who think that stacking some naked guys up at Abugrabi is an atrocity....
BUT maybe YOU missed it...so let me repeat....NOT BEING THERE and NOT WITTNESSING it I THINK I'LL LEAVE the INNOCENT part up to those who were in the situation AT THE MOMENT...
See THAT was the PART where I said I couldn't JUDGE if they were INNOCENT or NOT!!!!
AND NOT willing to let the MEDIA (the same Media that LIES CHEATS (both sides ) in an effort to gain RATINGS tell me they were!...THEY (the media) will PANDER to THEIR audiance and SPONCERS!!!! It's got little to do with reporting the news! ITS RATINGS...PAY THE BILLS!!!
They sell it and we buy it!
I have yet to find 1 broadcast outlet that isn't pandering to THEIR audiance....
Christ I've taken to watching foreign coverage just so I can keep the DEM/REP slant out of the coverage...
and THEY'RE (foriegn news) Pandering to THEIR own adgenda...
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
The sooner we get a third party that shakes both parties to their cores in an election and gets them to realize that, we the people, are tired of, them the sellouts to special interests (on both sides of the aisle), the better off we as a country will be.
HERE HERE!!!
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,477
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,477 |
How 'BOUT them Oilers, eh? Oops, wrong thread.  Sorry. 
JB
"Long live the Duck Force!"
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
What?! Houston got their football them BACK????!!!!! 
OH! I get it, JB!
You're not only tryin' to "calm the waters" around here...BUT....get those d*mn HOSERS and that there HOCKEY crap in on this "most enlightening" conversation TOO, HUH???!!!!
Cheers,
Dwight
(man...and I thought I WAS the "Eddie Haskell" around here...you TWERP you!!!)
Last edited by Dwight; 06/09/2006 4:57 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,664
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,664 |
JC,
The Oilers are back?
Of all the things said on this thread, I must vent. I want our troops home. I know the time is not right because their job is not finished. I want them here to guard our borders. They are risking their lives for oil politics, while our country is eroding and being consumed from within.
We should have gone to Iraq, taken Baghdad and used it as the command center for carpet bombing, bulldozers, and fresh shiny new oil wells. Steadily working ourway outward, expanding our perimeter. If we did, our troops would be home and that land would be inhabited by western oil workers. Israel would have peace.
Just My Thoughts.
Ride Safe,
Dennis
Triumph, it's how I live and what I ride.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 885 Likes: 2
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 885 Likes: 2 |
must just be your "soundbite" for the day!...
Sorry if I misconstrued the intention of your post.. but it seemed to be the logical conclusion of your 'innocents are not always innocents' reasoning, and your statement: I'll leave the innocent part up to those who were there in the situation at the moment and not to some PR dude who's tring to pander to those back here.
Notice that my original post on the topic dealt with the military reaction, not the news reports. I don't buy into the press unless there is compelling evidence to do so. Recently, there have been numerous reports of such incidents coming out of Iraq, not just from the press but from military and Iraqi officals as well. Are the accurate? Maybe, maybe not, but look at the military reaction to them!
The inital military report blamed the killings on a roadside bomb followed by firefight with insurgants. The military has now stated that was inaccurate and didn't happen, and is planning on filing charges against those involved, and not just for the incident in Haditha, but others as well. Army Brig. General Donald Campbell, the chief of staff of the Multinational Corps-Iraq, said "It doesn't excuse the acts that have occurred, and we're going to look into them. But I would say it's stress, fear, isolation and, in some cases, they're just upset. They see their buddies getting blown up on occasion, and they could snap". There are at least three or four incidents being investigated according to Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, spokesman for U.S.-led forces in Iraq. It may well be cases of colateral damage, but you usually don't press charges unless there is some substance to the claims.
But now, the military is going to begin 'ethics' training as a result. To me, that doesn't seem like an action to be taken if there wasn't a problem. A much more reasonable apporoach would be to conclude the investigations and THEN decide on an action to take if necessary. Why spend the time and effort otherwise?
If you didn't drink, and your neighbors started talking about you having a drinking problem, would you go and sign up for AA?
Cheers,
Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223
Big Bore
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Big Bore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223 |
Quote:
If you didn't drink, and your neighbors started talking about you having a drinking problem, would you go and sign up for AA?
Hi Brad,
Motorola has a recently enacted policy in place that if someone accuses you of harassment, you are required to take ethics training. There does not have to be ANY evidence, just the word of co-worker.
See the correlation?
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2 |
"Sorry if I misconstrued the intention of your post.." No problem Brad I just don't like having words put in my mouth....often there's no room for any more than those that are there ...and my foot "Army Brig. General Donald Campbell, the chief of staff of the Multinational Corps-Iraq, said "It doesn't excuse the acts that have occurred, and we're going to look into them. " It would seem to me if he can say that these events did occure then they have an answer "But now, the military is going to begin 'ethics' training as a result. To me, that doesn't seem like an action to be taken if there wasn't a problem. " Just my opinion but more PC crap to make us,US "more likeable" in the world view and keep public opinion of "suport the troops" from erroding into the the disaster that was "welcome home Nam vets" BUT IF THESE "ROGUE" TROOPS REALLY DID WIPE OUT TRUE INOCENTS THEN THEY SHOULD BE PUNISHED TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW And as far as the Media coverage is concerned I have friends and "Brothers" who have been there and back (and in some cases back again and they ALL agree that the Media coverage is focusing on the Negative" and doing very little coverage of the good...  wheres the story covering the new schools and medical facilities these guys are establishing... what about those pictures of our guys being greeted with cheers and flowers (it does happen and more often than we know) But then Butterflies and flowers make for pretty boring news...what we really need is a good scandle Don Henley said it best... I make my living off the evening news Just give me something-something I can use People love it when you lose, They love dirty laundry Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here I just have to look good, I dont have to be clear Come and whisper in my ear Give us dirty laundry Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre up Kick em all around We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who Comes on at five She can tell you bout the plane crash with a gleam In her eye Its interesting when people die- Give us dirty laundry Can we film the operation? Is the head dead yet? You know, the boys in the newsroom got a Running bet Get the widow on the set! We need dirty laundry You dont really need to find out whats going on You dont really want to know just how far its gone Just leave well enough alone Eat your dirty laundry Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre stiff Kick em all around Dirty little secrets Dirty little lies We got our dirty little fingers in everybodys pie We love to cut you down to size We love dirty laundry We can do the innuendo We can dance and sing When its said and done we havent told you a thing We all know that crap is king Give us dirty laundry!
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: Zarqawi is dead!
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 885 Likes: 2
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 885 Likes: 2 |
See the correlation?Loosely Can I ask why they implemented that policy? Might it have anything to do with the fact that Motorloa is a government contractor and the Federal Acquisition Regulations (FAR) were recently updated with regards to contractor ethics and accountability to federal laws (including labor laws that are geared towards workplace harassment)? But that is still a one to one relationship. A better correlation would be if Motorola policy would require the whole company to take ethics classes in the event of a single accusation I might also add that, according to Motorolas ethics policy, they are required to take any such charge seriously, unlike the military in relationship to press reports. According to the Motorola Ethics and code of Business Conduct: Quote:
Taking action to prevent problems and protect Motorola's reputation is part of the Motorola culture. If you see possible unethical or illegal conduct, you are expected to report your concerns.
Retaliation against any employee who honestly reports a concern to Motorola about illegal or unethical conduct will not be tolerated. At the same time, it is unacceptable to file a report knowing it to be false.
Cheers,
Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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