Bonneville America Forums Forums General Motorcycle Forums Other Bikes Entry Level Bike Idea

I know we all love the rumors of newer bigger bikes that we'd love to see or even own someday. Here's a marketing thought that I've been mulling over: I know a lot of people, who would love to get into riding. They haven't because the smaller bikes are too small. Most 400-600cc bikes are crotch rockets. An 800cc bike is fine for me because I am not all into the psuedo-machism thing. Now, the rumor of a 1500cc twin excites me, but new riders would probably prefer to buy a smaller cruiser or standard twin. The Daytona 675 motor would be perfect to cut off a cylinder to create a 450cc twin for people who need time to build confidence and they could keep it longer while they grow into a bigger bike. The average life use of a Honda 250 Rebel is probably 6 months before they are sold or put into the corner of a garage. The Kawasaki Vulcan 500 is a good starter bike that people keep for several years. New riders like my wife are intimidated by CCs. She likes the Kaw 500 Vulcan but she doesn't like forward controls and prefers the standard classics like the Bonneville. Triumph could make this bike a success. It would be an opportunity to resurrect another old Triumph name like the SpeedTwin, Thunderbird or Trophy. Just an idea.

Sorta like the Buell Blast....

I know several people that have bought Bonevilles as their first bike. I think that with some women, they are reluctant to get a bonnie as a first bike, because they feel it is too tall for them.
I think you are right, resurect the Speed Twin name. Use the 790 cc motor, put in a bike that is a couple inches lower than the Bonnie and use a single seat that is similar to the stock seat on the America, and bars like the ones on the Speedmaster.

Soren

Soren 4 inches shorter, all they need to come out with a America platform bike that is a tad shorter
We have been struggling finding a upgrade bike from my wifes 600 vlx. The closest bike that fits her is the 750 hondas the problem is the tank and airfilter, getting around them to get to the foot brake, not comfortable for my height challenged wife
My bike, once she is on it fits fine but its to tall for her at the lights 4 inches Id buy her another America if I knew how safely we could lower one and how low it could get without effecting the handeling

Hey Skillet

A good enough idea to get people into Triumphs but unfortunately the guys at Triumph have said they will not manufacture anything smaller than they already make.

They don't see a big enough market, not when you consider the size of the Japanese manufacturer's and how much they can afford to throw at developing one.

It aint gonna happen ...

I know it ain't gonna happen. Everyone here in the Colonies is looking for a bike to get comfortable riding a bike, so they "can get a HARLEY". What idiots.
I'd love to have a small Triumph to teach others to ride on and let tham borrow for the safety courses that don't provide a bike.

There are plenty of smaller bikes out there that are good learner bikes and yet are adequate for more than just rookies. Someone mentioned the Buell Blast, which is both a neat bike and is short enough for the vertically challenged folks (including my wife, who says it's the only sportbike she'd ever ride).

Others:
Savage LS 650 (what my wife rides)
Rebel 450
Bandit 400
GS 500
Ninja 500
Vulcan 500
VLX 600

None of the above bikes are huge, but they're all more than just 6-month wonders. I can personally vouch for the VLX 600 (used one as a courier motorcycle in DC for a summer) and the Savage 650 (which while being somewhat aenimc on the top end is still a hoot to ride).

For Triumph to put a lot of effort into building a smaller bike... not really worth their time. They'd be better off focusing their money on marketing trying to dig into HD's share.

--Jaeger

Quote:

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Savage LS 650 (what my wife rides)
Rebel 450
Bandit 400
GS 500
Ninja 500
Vulcan 500
VLX 600

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My wife has sat on all these bikes, except the GS500. They are all sportbikes or cruisers. The Savage/S40 is the closest she found to a standard Bonneville/Yamaha650/Honda750 type bike. She doesn't like crotch rockets and she doesn't like the cruiser style either. She did sit on a Heritage Softail and loved it. But she became almost ill because she's the one who made me realize I would only be happy with a Triumph since she taught me to hate the 3 Harleys I've owned in the past. First one, I spent all my time trying to keep it running. Second HD consumed all my money trying to keep it running. The third one cost me time and money trying to make it faster and make it shine, then it fell apart at 25,000 miles. She wants a standard/classic motorcycle. I guess I'll have to settle for a Honda Dream 305 and pay way too much for it. I still think there's a market there, if Triumph would just advertise their goods.

Skillet --

I'll tell ya, with proper jetting and a few tweaks, the Savage really is a kick-butt little bike. It's as easy to work on as the Bonneville variants, and if Mrs. Skillet is like Mrs. Jaeger she'll be perfectly entertained for quite a while (especially if you put a better pipe on it, up the jet size and drill the airbox). As far as looks, there's a dedicated Savage site (much like this site is for BA/SMs) that has all the upgrade and mod info you could want (sorry, don't have the link right here).

We got ours on the road -- with a professional tuneup and brand new tires -- for $2k. Not bad for a 1996 bike that will run virtually forever.

--Jaeger

Doesn't Honda make a smallish nighthawk kinda bike? That's basically a standard...

My wife loves her Savage. The whole bike is scaled for someone her size 5'2". It's low,light enough she can lift it and balanced but has plenty of get up. It has enough power to hit 65 two up. I bought her 96 with 1700 miles for $1400. The carb are increbidly lean from the factory, but that is easy enough to fix. Also you can mount a sportster muffler and it sounds like a half a harley. Also belt driven so there is really no maintence.
It's torquey enough that I have ridden it a couple of times, but my knees hit the handlebars and it just not comfortable for a person my size.

JAEGER,
Thanks for the Savage info. Please let me know the website if she's willing to share it (LOL). I am thinking that's the route we'll take when the time comes.

BEN,
Yes, Honda has a Nighthawk 250 and I think a 450. The 250
is like the Rebel, just too small for an all day ride, but great for a MSF course. If I could find a 450 - that would work.

ALDEN,
That is great information. I can use it. Raynea will be on my America as soon as I can afford a RocketIII.
Life is good.

Yep, PapaDean's got it. Good site, seem to be good folks, and lots of good info.

Also, look on Ebay for upgrades and parts -- you can get 'em really really cheap.

--Jaeger

That's actually a good idea. After japan.inc stopped making the 400 - 450 "commuter" bikes they started pumping out in the late 70's, decent starter/econo bikes are getting hard to find. The toy ninjas aren't really good for that duty because of the seating position. It's hard enough to learn to ride safely without also having to learn to sit like a constipated frog.
That 'Charley Davidson' that someone in San Diego was building in TX from Chinese parts might work, but I doubt it's reliable or tough enough to get the average youngster the experience needed to graduate to a real bike.

Maybe Triumph is right, Why start someone out With Brand loyalty ?

Well today is the last day for the wifes vlx 600 dx
We are picking up her Honda Aero tomorrow
The flaw with the Vlx like a lot of the smaller bikes was a lot of the things we bought it for in th first place. The 600 only had a 4 speed and a range of about 80 miles also on the rare occasion we brought it out on the highway the gearing just was not tall enough and it caused some vibrations. The VLX was a great starter bike and held its value well it just was not a great long term bike

Shaun
the problem was not being able to try it first
Ididnt want to spend the money on the America then lower it and buy the seat to find out it wasnt comfortable enough for her.

Quote:

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Have you thought about Brent's low profile seat in conjuction with lowering? I am sure the suspension could safely be taken down 1.25 inches in addition to the 2.75 inches you would get from the seat?

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Hi Chris,
Your bride will love the 750. Very good ride. As far as lowering, Nukeranger lowered his wife's standard Bonneville to a seat height of 28 inches, added custom oaint and it's gorgeous. He has a couple shots in photopost.

Standard Bonnevilles and T100's are spoke breakers on the left side of the rear wheel!

A lengthy discussion of this topic, entitled If you have had broken spokes - sign in is located on Delphiforums. Note that there are, as I type this, 702 posts to this one thread! http://forums.delphiforums.com/New_Bonneville/start

You'll need to get past the initial advertisement and then go to the Maintenance & Repairs section for the above-mentioned thread. (I tried, but can't get it to deep link.)

The subject is completely covered, including alleged design flaws, warranty repair, post warranty options (custom rebuilds), resulting damage and how to file a complaint with NTSB if you've had a problem with breakage.

By the way, I find no pleasure in noting this problem. In fact, I am very sad about it all.

My wife is taking the rider saftey course in a few weeks and we have gone bike shopping for her. Up until now I have been playing along with the Yahama'a and the Honda's. No way are these rice burners sitting next to my Bonnie in my garage.

Problem is the Triumph's just do not fit her the closest we have come is the retro Bonnie 1100. She just does not like the style, she loves the Honda 650.

I guess I will have to build another garage.

I agree that there would be a market out there. If someone buys a 250 Honda or Yahama and outgrows it in a month they are back buying a bigger Honda.

Triumph, has built in customer loyalty and I'm sure if the made an entry style bike once they outgrew it they would trade up.

My two cents.

Poppy My wifes first bike was the Honda 600vlx The good news is you can get your money on a used one right back on it Suzie drove hers for a year and I got all but a hundred back The VLX just is a easy bike to outgrow

Used bikes are real cheap in New England this year. Grab a want ad or check out craigslist. No sense in buying a new one thats going to be traded in a year, let someone else take the deprication hit.

Thanks Papa,
Isn't this problem a shame - I hate it too. These engines are too good to be fitted on a bike with weaknesses, like spokes. I've heard much on this topic and it hurts Triumph' name. I think we'll go the Savage, Vulcan500 or VLX600 route, if I can get her to drive again. My precious wife is a natural at riding, she digs into the turns like she really trusts her machine. She doesn't try to drag the pegs, but can't wait for the next turn so she can sweep it again. She loves it, but her left knee is so weak, she is afraid to trust it enough to ride alone. And her new Rick Mayer pillion has convinced her to stay on the back seat forever - it is VERY comfy (i've tried it myself).
I'll kick her off the back one day soon.

FYI. My Wife's Custom Bonneville was lowered a couple of inches and a solo seat installed. Additionally, I installed some lowered Foot pegs and took off the rear pegs. My lovely bride is 5'2" and less than 90 lbs. She loves her bonneville. It is faster than my black BA. I think it has to do with being 50 lbs lighter and not the color. Although I do think the lowered look and color make it look fast.