 Bush bans protests
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Pres. Bush has just signed the "Respect for Fallen Heroes Act" which makes it illegal for groups to disrupt a military funeral...punishable by huge fines and possible jail terms. Even if you disagree with Bush politically, you have to respect this decision...IMHO.
'02 Blk/Slvr BA, Jireh fishtails, Freak, no AI, 160/42, 18T
She is the Beauty, I am the Beast.
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Loquacious
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HERE HERE!!!! (but you know it's only a matter of time before the ACLU or some other group chalanges it in court)
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Anyone who disagrees with this new "Act" is nothing more than an anarchist. I dont think we will see to many who are in opposition to this.
Whoever they are , wherever they are. if they really think it is ok to desecrate a funeral for the fallen then...#### Em. May they eat #### and die.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Should be Riding
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I am glad he did that. It has absolutley nothing to do with politics or political veiws, but repect for he fallen.
Soren
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Old Hand
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That's great as far as it goes. I was sort of hoping, Him being from TX and all, that the law would open season on assholes who would protest a furneral.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Quote:
...Him being from TX and all...
just curious...'Him' being capitalized...unintentional, intentional or a kind of 'Freudian slip'? 
'02 Blk/Slvr BA, Jireh fishtails, Freak, no AI, 160/42, 18T
She is the Beauty, I am the Beast.
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Pres. Bush has just signed the "Respect for Fallen Heroes Act" which makes it illegal for groups to disrupt a military funeral...punishable by huge fines and possible jail terms. Even if you disagree with Bush politically, you have to respect this decision...IMHO.
I respect the idea behind it, but I don't respect any attack on freedom of speech or assembly. I disagree strongly with the asshats that cause the problems, but as soon as you start restricting one groups freedom to express their opinions, everyone is fair game for whatever political prostitute happens to be in power.
Don't you people know anything about history and human nature?
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
That's great as far as it goes. I was sort of hoping, Him being from TX and all, that the law would open season on assholes who would protest a furneral.
Yep GB!
I hear CHENEY is just chompin'-at-the-bit for THAT SEASON to start!!!
Cheers,
Dwight
(And I'LL even supply him the buckshot for THAT hunt)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Bush bans protests
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bigbill, these asshats still have the freedom to speak their minds (and I use the term loosely)...they just can't do it at a military funeral anymore...no one is taking away their freedom of speech, but if they don't have the brains or the common courtesy to find a more appropriate place and time, somone has to say "you can do this, but you can't do it here".
Do I know anything about human nature? I think so, and it's maybe a cynical viewpoint...there will always be people who abuse freedom of speech. I don't think freedom of speech is intended to be abused in this fashion. again, IMHO.
'02 Blk/Slvr BA, Jireh fishtails, Freak, no AI, 160/42, 18T
She is the Beauty, I am the Beast.
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Fe Butt
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Bill, I've heard the "Slippery Slope" argument used so many times to rationalize a strict adherence to whatever dogma both extremes of the political spectrum espouse, that I think my ears bleed sometimes. The "Right"...."If you have take away our handguns......." The "Left"....."If you take away our right to say anything at anytime we please......." So excuse me for agreeing with Dave here, but "moderation", whether self-imposed OR by government mandate is quite alright in MY book. Cheers, Dwight (unless you're talkin' 'bout LAME JOKES...THAT is something that should NEVER have limits placed upon it)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Loquacious
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While I'm not great on political discussions....
What about the right for the families to grieve? If my cousin had been sent to Iraq and killed (he was in the US Army), I'm sure my aunt, uncle, gran, the rest of my family and my uncle's family would not have would not wanted to been the subject of a protest. We'd have wanted to grieve in peace.
I'm not saying that agreed or disagree with the battles in Iraq, just that grief should be a private thing. Not another battleground.
Gina
03 America - Pretty stock - except the TBS wheel... 
06 America - missing, presumed in bits. With it's TBS wheel... 
09 America - It's very blue....
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Right or wrong, I like this bill. Isn't there a group of motorcycle owners that go around to military funerals and 'protect' the family and friends of the fallen soldier from protesters? I thought I read that somewhere. But I have a question: how can you protest at a funeral of a soldier KIA who died to protect your right to freedom of speach?
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the group is called the Patriot Guard...I'll let one of the members give you more informed details. With regard to your comment on freedom of speech...of course you're right, but these morons don't see it that way. They believe it's divine punishment because the U.S. supports freedom of sexual orientation ie gays and lesbians...they could give a rats a$$ about anybody else's rights, such as the right to mourn a loved one without having to deal with their crap.
'02 Blk/Slvr BA, Jireh fishtails, Freak, no AI, 160/42, 18T
She is the Beauty, I am the Beast.
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Loquacious
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Quote:
but I don't respect any attack on freedom of speech or assembly... restricting one groups freedom to express their opinions, everyone is fair game for whatever political prostitute happens to be in power.
Like your ability to yell FIRE In a crouded theatre..or your ability to go on National news and tell the world that your next door neibor fu(ks dogs, when it isn't true!! This isn't an assault on free speach...just a wise exception like the Cause harm/slander clause!
Last edited by RobBA05; 05/29/2006 4:22 PM.
THE VOICE OF REASON
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Bar Shake
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Damm, government imposed "moderation". Now there's an oxymoron for ya. If the Goverment can take away your right to pizz people off, most members of this board would be in big trouble  . As far as the slippery slope argument, history shows it to be a fact. The Republican party has made a plank of its platform out of trying to stifle the rights of their opposition, under the misnomer "campaign finance reform" ever since their infamous "contract on America". We have to jealously guard all of our rights, or risk losing them. Amendment ICongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.There's a reason that's the first amendment, the first of the enumerated ten that were passed concurrently as the "Bill of Bights". The reason is that the citizens have a right to express whatever opinion they have whenever and wherever they want, without fear of retribution. The right to express an opinion, however unpopular, is foundational to our republic. After all, we aren't meant to be a nation of sheep. People have died to protect these civil rights. And not just miltary. I trust that the courts will find that W has overstepped his authority on this.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Like your ability to yell FIRE In a crouded theatre..or your ability to go on National news and tell the world that your next door neibor fu(ks dogs, when it isn't true!! This isn't an assault on free speach...just a wise exception like the Cause harm/slander clause!
Now Rob, there ya go gettin' all emotional  . Freedom of speech was never about slander, libel, and yelling fire in a crowded theater. We all know that, and the courts have upheld that.
What the first amendment is about is political and social commentary. Which is exactly what the scum protesting at military funerals are doing.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Bush bans protests
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These people aint doing this peaceably, they are disturbing the peace of those at the funeral which is already against the law. you cant Harass people and yell obscenities at people in a public place, also against the law, and that is exactly what these fools were doing, and trying to hide behind the constitution. i'm glad someones showing some common courtesy and COMMON SENSE!
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
These people aint doing this peaceably, they are disturbing the peace of those at the funeral which is already against the law. you cant Harass people and yell obscenities at people in a public place, also against the law, and that is exactly what these fools were doing, and trying to hide behind the constitution.
If they're breaking laws against harrassment and obscenity, then they should be prosecuted under those laws, and there would be no need for any more.
(Many juristictions have a "fighting words" statute, which can be presented as a mitigating circumstance for impulsively punching someone in the nose, as I'm sure they know).
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Loquacious
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He's NOT saying they Can't say it...he's just saying they cant say it at a military funeral...now I agree these scum have the right to say what ever they want, however moronic it is!!...but you (the general cicilian public) can't assemble on military bases...you can't go to a court room and start screaming your political views...so there are exceptions and they are in place for good reason...this is a wise and well intended plan...and I supose if you squint hard you could almost see this as his right as commander in chief of the military....these are American Military events so why shouldn't the Military be able to have some control...these families have the right to mourn and pay their respects without some fargin a$$hat yelling and screaming for more IED's and dead! you cant yell fire in a croud, you cant go into a court room and start spouting your political and social views...you cant go on base and parade around spitting your venom toward the curent administration...and now thankfully you cant go to a MILITARY funeral and do it either!!!
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Bar Shake
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If they're on private property, they can be arrested for trespassing. If they're on a military installation, same thing. If they're on open public property, already defined by the courts as a public forum, the law won't pass the test.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Obviously you dont understand common human decency so i'm done here
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Bar Shake
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You don't get it Stone. I think that what they are doing is reprehensible.
The point is that the Constitution of the U.S. of A. has to be defended.
Even if it means allowing someone to say things that assault the sensibilties of others.
Quite frankly, if they were to show up at the funeral of one of my friends or family members, it would probably be me in jail.
Last edited by bigbill; 05/29/2006 5:39 PM.
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I think most of us understand the need to protect our right to free assembly and our right to freedom of speech. But that doesn't give blanket policy to stomp on other peoples rights. The last thing most people want is more government, more laws that dictate what we can and cannot do...but it seems to me sometimes that sometimes our governments are forced into passing these laws because there are those who can't use common sense in the application of these freedoms.
'02 Blk/Slvr BA, Jireh fishtails, Freak, no AI, 160/42, 18T
She is the Beauty, I am the Beast.
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Too often the reasons we end up legislating every little trifle is that with out constraint, we will do the most incredibly ignorant of things under the banner of freedom. And most always those freedoms affect others and remove their freedom.
The freedom to smoke in a public place removes from me my freedom not to smoke. The freedom to drive 130 miles per hour often results in negative affect on the lives of others.
The freedom to express hatred for war has it's place, as does the freedom to smoke and run 130 miles per hour. There are acceptable places and times for expression of freedom. Freedom is not the reckless expression of right, but the thoughtful execution of that right in the appropriate place and time with thoughtful consideration of those whom it may affect.
It is clear that some in society often lack judgment in execution of those rights, and steal the freedom they profess to express (and protect) from those whom they, without thought, push their freedoms upon. Just because I can do something, does not mean that I must do it. And there are those who simply "do", because they can, without regard to the consequences and the affect it has upon those around them.
Freedom is also, choosing to do what is right, and in the right way and with respect to those around us. It is a sad thing that we have to in-act ordinances and laws to curtail the infringements of acts of freedom by those who are only focused upon themselves and their cause and not those around them.
Though most would agree the current topic centers upon what most consider the obvious infraction of common decency, we as human beings seem to have the need to be restrained by law or we will push the boundaries of acceptable limits on any and every issue and use the excuse it is our right to expression, even if it usurps the rights of those around them.
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A much more eloquent and detailed statement of what I was trying to say above...thanks, Ed.
'02 Blk/Slvr BA, Jireh fishtails, Freak, no AI, 160/42, 18T
She is the Beauty, I am the Beast.
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Thank you Ed, for a reasoned response. One question though. Quote:
Freedom is also, choosing to do what is right, and in the right way and with respect to those around us. It is a sad thing that we have to in-act ordinances and laws to curtail the infringements of acts of freedom by those who are only focused upon themselves and their cause and not those around them.
Who gets to decide what is right? And who gets to say which cause or which viewpoint is the protected one?
Yeah I know, that's two .
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
If they're on private property, they can be arrested for trespassing. If they're on a military installation, same thing. If they're on open public property, already defined by the courts as a public forum, the law won't pass the test.
Yeah well... we already change the rules for the dead (stop signs and red lights for the funeral procession) so if that means that public property becomes Military property for the duration of the funeral then so be it!!! Plus the federal government ALREADY has the power to "take" private property (eminant domain) they can just "take" the entire route and the cemetary, church, and such...then return it at the end of the cerimony....
Sorry Bill I understand FULLY your defence of the first amendment and I hear what your saying...
But these people are never going to get me to defend their right to desicrate the funeral of a fallen Military fighter....
But as I stated in my first post on this it's only a matter of time before the ACLU or some other group challenges this in court!
Plus the federal government already tweeked part of the first amendment...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... didn't they ban prayer in public school (thanks to the ACLU the same a$$holes who want to get rid of the "pleadge of allegiance") after all we (in our "glorious" P.C.ness) wouldn't want to offend anyone...unless it gives us some "air time" defending those who offend others!
Now I have to bow out of this (for a time) because these sh!theads and "stupid" ACLU fights (not you or your oppinion) are really p!ssing me off and I'm starting to rant and rave and getting WAY of track...next thing is I'll be typing in al CAPS and pounding the keys and I'll prob break the {.} key...so lets finish this by reminding me that MJ still has the publishing rights to the Beatles song book and I'll go sulk over a beer and pizza! 
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Loquacious
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quote...
What the first amendment is about is political and social commentary. Which is exactly what the scum protesting at military funerals are doing.
Bill.....turn in your American MAN card right now. If you really believe that ya need to have your American man card officialy revoked.
Cause ..DUDE. These so called PEOPLE...and I use that term loosely ...are not making any kind of social or political commentary that is herewith protected under the bill of rights. They are being disrespectful to the honored dead. They deserve only to be shunned, ridiculed, made light of and in general made a mere mockery of by the greater society withing wich they reside.
Sorry Bill ...you are way wrong on this.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Loquacious
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Quote:
it would probably be me in jail.
I'ld post your bail....unfortunatly I'ld be a cell mate...and not much "probably" involved there...unless the local "boys in blue" were willing to look the other way I WOULD be in Jail....and happy to be so under those circumstances...and willing to "let a jury of my peers" decide my fate!
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
.so lets finish this by reminding me that MJ still has the publishing rights to the Beatles song book and I'll go sulk over a beer and pizza!
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Bill.....turn in your American MAN card right now. If you really believe that ya need to have your American man card officialy revoked.
Sorry dude, someone'll have to take that. (And just so ya don't act rashly, it can't be done).
I'm not defending them, I think I've made that clear.
I'm simply stating that once a law is passed to silence anyone, it can and will be used in ways that were never intended.
As an American Man, I believe that the rights of our nation have to apply to everyone, even those people that I can't stand. And, so sorry, but disrespect is protected.
I salute and respect the Patriot Guard for using their right of free speech and assembly to counter the idiots. And yes it's sad that they have to.
FYI, I am one of the few (anymore) who stand and salute when the flag passes by or the national anthem is played. I offer thanks to The Lord before my meals, wherever I am.
I am truly thankful that I live in a country where all opinions are allowed to be expressed (so far anyway).
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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If someone wants to call me evil thats ok he is allowed to have his say Im allowed to call him a fool and move on
Someone wants to call my brother evil at his funeral in front of my mother and his wife, then there is going to be a problem.
Americans have the right to do lots of things
Americans have a duty to protect the innocent
The innocent like the wives husbands and parents of the brave men who are serving, Most of the ones serving are kids who thought they were getting college money.
It is are duty to protect the familes of these people
its not are right its are duty
You can hide behind a piece of paper for the sake of argument. Or you can put yourself in the familes shoes
Bill imagine its your mother who has some idiot in there face
Im sure you would not be quoting any law of the land
im sure your reaction would be quite against the law
Im no done with this very stupid discussion
Last edited by stern12; 05/29/2006 9:51 PM.
Chris
Pain heals, Chicks dig scars, and Glory last forever.
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Re: Bush bans protests
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What Bush did is a good and honorable thing. I just hope that they throw the book at these subhuman POS when they pull this stunt at a funeral of an American soldier. I hope they lock them all up and treat them like al qaeda because they are enemies of the state. Torture them, make ever living moment of their incarceraton a living hell. Resurrect a few 1950-1960's overly sadistic Marine D.I and give them carte blanche to reeducate these folks. You get em Bush ole fella. Get er done! Dont worry about any of the liberal whiners who clown about their Rahts! We just need to read em those rights once...before we incarcerate em.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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I fully admit to not really reading any of this thread, but I saw a bumper sticker that I think is appropriate. It said
"Debate the war, support the troops."
There are people on both sides of the argument that can't separate the issues in their mind.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Thank you george w for protecting us from these evil protesters. Now why don't you figure out how to get us out of this frigging mess you got us into. And while you're at it why don't you take a look at energy prices, global warming and the national debt.
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Here is a link to the Patriot Gaurd Riders. BigBill I agree, you can not legislate common sense. That being said, God forbid, if the WBC group show up at a funeral of one of my family members, I will spend the rest of my life in prison. This picture of my son was taken this morning.  PGR I haven't seen this law, but I don't think it is going to change anything. The a$$hats will show up at funeral homes, or stand on the side of the road along the funeral route, they have already indicated any legislation will not change anything for them. If you are passionate about this issue, do something about it, I don't think anything is going to change. For every protestor, we need 10, 100, or 1000 people waving the flag for our fallen hero's.
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Bill imagine its your mother who has some idiot in there face
Im sure you would not be quoting any law of the land
im sure your reaction would be quite against the law
Im no done with this very stupid discussion
I addressed that Chris.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Bar Shake
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Thank you for understanding my point, Robert.
I agree with your sentiments.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,425
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,425 |
He is not from TX. He just bought a ranch here and moved in,
In fact here is his Bio...George W. Bush Biographical Information
Birthdate: 07/06/1946
Birthplace: New Haven, CT
Religion: Methodist
Family: Married, 2 daughters
Political Experience: Governor of Texas, 1994-2000 President of the United States, 2000-Present
Mal: "Y'all see the man hanging out of the spaceship with the really big gun?{ref, Jayne} Man's lookin' to kill some folk. So really, it's his will y'all should worry about thwarting."
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Re: Bush bans protests
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 582
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 582 |
The group from Kansas came to New Paltz last year to protest the gay marrage ceremonies performed by the Mayor of the village & a Unitarian priest. At the protest site by the church my wife goes to 15 WBC clowns were met by over 200 people protesting them (being a college town helps).
I wanted to have a good old fashioned TAR & FEATHERING & plop them back on their bus. I lost.
"Got the wind in my face the road goes on for miles...."
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