Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge Parental Control & Adult Web Sites

I have been asked by a friend of mine to setup a PC and internet access for him so his children can do school projects. They are ages 7, 11 and 14 or around that. Now he is concerned about the content on the internet especially Adult site. Now I know that most of the internet security software available now has parental control built into it. Unfortunately I have very little experience with this and would like some advice from those of you that have kids around this age. I am not sure what actually constitutes an Adult site as far as this software goes. Now I know that the hardcore stuff would be blocked on default. However what about chat sites and forums these I am not sure about as some of them could posse a threat I am sure.

As my friend is very protective over his children like most parents I would not like to set it all up and have some loophole that I have not considered. So what type of access do you allow your children and how do you monitor it?

Note – This post is not here to upset anyone on this forum or test the boundaries of any rules and regulation. I have added this as this post was seen to be unfit on another forum and deleted. I am just trying to gather some ideas and information so I am able to do the best possible setup for this.

Unfortunately the parental controlls on most software is fraught with problems...many of them are'nt (were'nt) smart enough to seperate real from fake dangers...for example if they want information on breast cancer most software will (would) screen it out as a hazard...

the best parental controll your friend can have on his computer is himself...

consider passwording the internet window, and have him monitor their activities...I have used the present/past tence because it has been several years since I had them set up on my PC (and subsiquently removed them) they may have improved the filters by now....but I'm also sure those sites wishing to be seen have also improved their methods also...

I have found the best monitoring I can do is to disallow any chat/IM/ membership and restrict the use for legitimate research and have a frank discussion as to the dangers and pitfalls (as well as the good)...

there is no reason for kids to be surfing the web, chatting with their "friends"...

put down the PS2/gamecube/gameboy/PC/ TV and go out side and ...play...use your imagination...be a kid...if you need to talk to your friends...pick up the phone and call them....

Password the entire internet connection...is the best safe gaurd, and honest communication with your kids!

The thing is this friend of mine is a PC dummy, he hates them with a passion this is why they have never had up until now. From my side I have never used any parental control software as it’s just the wife and myself that are at home so we had no need for it. I have also just heard from another source here that the one ISP has a research account that you can subscribe to “MWeb Learning”. So I am also going to check this out as the way I understand it is setup for school use and student. So this also may be one way to approach this.

How do you disallow any chat/IM/ membership? I never thought of this actually this would be a must to do. I think this is one of the danger areas on the net now days.

It is actually quite sickening that this garbage is forced on you when ever they have a chance. Thanks for the feedback much appreciated.

Chat and IM software must be down loaded, deleat those that come "bundled" with other software. AIM and so on...I just refuse the use of it on my system (for my son)

If you password the internet itself (and most ISP's require the use of one to access the internet) then the only time they could access the WWW is if Mom/Dad is home to key in the password...

also keep the PC in a CENTRAL WELL TRAVELED area of the house...NOT in their bedrooms or some other secluded section of the house....

you can not prevent all of this BUT again open, honest communication (of sometimes uncomfortable subjects) with his kids as to the reasons why, will help greatly and if you make it difficult for them to "stray" then thats the best you can do...

kids will be kids and you can't watch them 24/7 but hopefully he's teaching his kids to make smart decisions (but they need to make mistakes or else they learn nothing)

an occasional scan of the history files (and there are some "parental spy programs" available) will help him track their activity and nip issues in the bud, and NO MUSIC DOWNLOADS AT ALL...MORE CRAP(virus's, worms, trojens, AD-Ware, ect) comes onto your cmpt from these site than the "adult" sites

the internet is a fantastic tool, and a great place to learn (this site is a perfect example of how great it can be) but HE needs to teach his kids of the pro's and con's and HE needs to MONITOR their use of it...and not trust that some software will do that for him...

after all how is the software mfg suposed to know what his limitations are...maybe he finds nothing wrong with nudity but has issues with "porn"...perhaps he has issues with Gay people but wants his kids to be aware of the dangers of STD's and AIDS...

most "net nanny" programs are/were VERY "black and white" and have/had little latitude for gray...

I popped into my buddies place on the way home after work. I spoke to him about some of the issues and we will be putting the PC in the family room. They all spend a lot of time here watching TV and playing games on the Playstation.

I am also going to look at McAfee parental control tonight to see what option this offers. I think I am a bit nervous of this story as they have sort of entrusted the kids well being to me as far as the net goes.

I think they have a good open relationship with the kids so this side of thing should be covered quite well. I know they have already spoken to the eldest daughter about the sex issue and she took it very well asking questions and so on. They are quite bright youngsters so I think they will be quite open with the folks if anything seems wrong to them on the net.

I have also pointed out that whatever software we do install to keep it clean is just that software and does not really have any intelligence at the end of the day. I will also need to sit down with him and give him a few 101 computer lessons

sounds good...if he plans to spend any time on the web be sure he has AD-AWARE or some other (i run several) spyware programs...good luck!

I run McAfee Internet Security and I have found that if work to my liking stopping most of the spam and all the popup stuff. I have also had a look at Norton but I found it allowed quite a bit of stuff through that it should have stopped. So I think I will install this depending on the parental control capabilities. What ever one is better here will be what I will use.

I actually think once he gets the hang of the PC he will change his views as he is quite an intellectual type reading books and so on. Some people for what ever reason seem to just get a block when it comes to computers.

The best parental control is a parent, period.

Any software control you may get is nothing more than a 'band-aid' for lazy parents. Put the PC someplace central, where it can be observed. Teach the kids about the dangers of the internet, and to operate in 'stealth' mode by not giving out names, addresses, phone numbers, etc.. or posting personal information on the net for public consumption. Viruses/trojans/malware will always be a never ending battle unless you ditch windows. SPAM can be reduced by using a mail client that has bayesian filtering, and pop-ups can be eliminated by using a browser such as Mozilla (which also has a nice email client with bayesian spam filtering) or Firefox. Access to the internet or internet services (such as AIM) can be controlled at the router if you have one, or you can set up a cheap linux NAT/router/firewall to do it, usually for free using an old PC that was going to be thrown out or given away (you don't need a lot of horsepower.. a 133Mhz 286 box would be more than enough).

As a side note, using the linux box for access to the internet gives you lots of advantages. For one, you can remotely control access from anywhere on the net, like from your work location. You can also set up a cron job to automatically enable/disable access or just selected services at certain times.. I have mine setup so that after 11:00pm (the kids bedtime), access is disabled for their computer, and it comes back on at 6:00pm the next day. Of course I can either log in locally or ssh into the box remotely and change it whenever I like as well. I can also, for example, block access to AIM if I see my daughter being distracted while trying to do her homework.

Cheers,
Brad

As I agree with MrUnix I will also need to argue with him. I think they are right in saying that the only good protection they will have is a parent. Install the computer in a open area like the living room or near the kitchen if mom is cooking. That way the can not do any secret stuff. Glance at them once and a while over your shoulder and every so often just walk up undetected and say hum that looks interesting what are you learning about today. This will teach the kids right off the bat that they are being watched and monitored. Ad-ware and spy ware are hard to deal with but if you use Ad-aware by lovasoft you can get it for free. It will catch the most of it. Use Mozilla Firefox. This will help with all the popups and adware and all kinds of stuff.
I disagree with his intentions of a Unix firewall and router. This is a good theory in concept but most 99.9% of the home user has no ideal how to even start installing one. There is no way that they would be able to administer it and update it. As for the SSH into the box, good luck most people don’t even know what the command prompt is anymore.
There are so many software programs that I have seen out there. So much is yes just a “band-aid” fix to the problem. Parental control is the key. Between all family members there needs to be a agreement about what is right and wrong and then stick with it. I am sure if they got into trouble and had to go back to using the good old encyclopedias they would be more cautious next time.
I worked for a school district k-12. We allowed internet access for over 10,000 students each year. Part of the agreement was we had to provide some type of filter software. The best one we could find was N2H2 or Bess Proxy. I do not know if they will do a home user but I think they have something. The only disadvantage to this is that there is always a way around these things. (How do you think I got my job.) So you are back to the same old saying just be a Parent and put the computer in a public place.
There is not a lot here that I can comment on. I am not a bike mechanic. And I can’t tune a carb for anything. But when it comes to computers and networks, I feel I can say a little piece…

ValDean Lym

I think I am getting some valuable ideas from your post and I thank you for that. One other idea I am thinking of doing is setting the router up so only port 80 is active. This way I can stop all UDP traffic thus eliminating any P2P communication. I think you would all agree that P2P would be one of my main concerns here. I will only allow http and ftp traffic so they will still be able to surf the internet and download information if needed. The Linux theory would just be to complex for them to manage not being computer literate as such. So my other option will be install McAfee Internet Security. I think I will have to stick with as many Microsoft solutions as possible as the older one is taking computer classes at school and obviously this is the schools software of choice so it would make sense to use it on the home PC.


The PC will be in the family room where they spend most of the time. I see that the parental control has options to allow internet access on selected time periods. So we would set the open time around the main period when they would normally all be in the family area. They are going to treat it as a family type project all participating in the use of it.

The unix box was of course an 'advanced' option, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway As for the router/firewall, since more and more people are hooking up to broadband and going wireless, a lot of people already have one and don't even know it. If not, they have got stupid cheap these days, some well under $50. Opening up just http/ftp would work.. if you want them to be able to send and receive e-mail, then you would have to at least open outbound SMTP traffic (preferrably to your providers SMTP gateway only) and inbound POP/IMAP (again, preferrably from your providers mail gateway only). My kids also live on IM as well (ports 5190-5193), 'cause e-mail is soooooo old fashioned I like being able to toggle that one on and off depending on situation.

Most of the routers out there have a pretty easy to use web based interface, so it's really easy to set up and forget it (and monitor it's logs so you can see how many people are trying to hack you )

Cheers,
Brad

Glad you brought up the UNIX box I may look at this option for another setup I am doing. Also glad you highlighted the mail as well I sort of had overlooked this one. I think from all the information I have been given within this post I can quite confidently be sure that I will have quite a safe setup.

One other thing I noticed on the parental control software is you are able to view the logs of the created users. This way we will be able to see exactly what type of usage is being made by each of the kids.

Mr. U is right on this one. The best control is a parent. UDP port probes are automated port scanners. The default settings on most routers block the common ports. The good thing about a router vs. a software firewall is it does not answer meaning a request sent to a software router is interpreted then denied where a router doesn't listen on the port at all. That means the automated port scanner moves on assuming its a fax machine or whatever and does not report to the human hacker you are even there. IMHO there is no replacement for a hardware firewall. The very inexpensive Linksys router is really a mini cisco router with a good and easy interface. Netgear and D-link are also good products along with Hawking.

Parental controls are a tough one. The software makers of this stuff get paid to put sites on the block list, they also charge to take sites off. They block way to much. For example, if your kid has to do a paper on Breast Cancer most sites will be blocked, dog websites will be blocked if breeding or ****** or whatever is in the metaheaders. They are very restrictive, unreliable and not needed if the parenting is there along with the family values.

Before computers remember the kid down the street who had his fathers Playboy magazines. I think you get my point. If a kid wants to get to porn the kid will get to porn. If not on your computer on some other source.

Predators don't come from porn sites. They join kids chat groups. Net Nanny type software does not block that.

I cant believe I had to run over here and post this reply here. Roadwasher, they deleted your post again
MrUnix has the right idea. You need a Security Appliance that handles Upstream HTTP PROXY Request with content filtering.
The downside is there isnt to many options that will do that for you "Out Of The Box" for a Home User setup and is free.
So the only 2 options I can think of off the bat that will provide this functionality is Astaro and IPCOP. Astaro is my first choice, I sell it, I use it both home and office, and swear by it. You can get a free home licence with Astaro minus the Antivirus/Spyware Protection.
IPCop will do the same thing, it will just take a bit more work to get the content filtering setup.

Aaron

Well I have setup the computer and thanks to all the information received here and those that PM me some I think I have quite a secure setup. I did a bit of configuration on the router as suggested and also installed McAfee Internet Security. I have also setup a profile for Mom & Dad and one for each of the kids. You should have seen the fight as to who would be the first to use the computer, Dad however won this one.

Once again everyone thanks for your input on this it really did help me in making sure some of the loopholes were tiered down.

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Not only did they delete it but I got booted off the site but that is how things go

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Wow, thats rubbish and uncalled for. I see no reason why they did that and looks to be very poor moderation on their part. The whole thing has left me dumbfounded and slightly offended.

Aaron

Which web site are we talking about?

Oh, they don't have any kind of a lounge forum, do they? Still, booting you for that is a little bit like ridiculous.

They have the general chat biker hangout and I posted it there.