 will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2 |
What would make the blinker relay click when the key is on and you push the start. Last year I had some finicky starts where the starter solenoid would click. I replaced the battery. This year it would not start at all. I tested the solenoid and felt that was the problem and replaced it. There was no change. The blinker relay clicks. My next step would be to test the starter but the blinker relay click must mean something
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 4
Should be Riding
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 4 |
test your battery first. I think the starting current runs through that relay as well, sounds like it might not have enough oomph to even trip the starter solenoid
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2 |
The battery is carrying a 12.75 reading through to the solenoid terminals. The battery was new and kept on charge over the winter. I will try direct boost from the car with the bike battery removed from the system.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
12.75 is a little low for a battery at rest, should be a little over 13V. Try turnning the engine over and see what the reading drops to. Be careful keeping a battery on charge, you have to use a tender that shuts off at full charge or it will over charge and ruin the battery. The 12.75 could be OK if you have run it down.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains. Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
|
Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
12.75 is a little low for a battery at rest, should be a little over 13V. Try turnning the engine over and see what the reading drops to. Be careful keeping a battery on charge, you have to use a tender that shuts off at full charge or it will over charge and ruin the battery. The 12.75 could be OK if you have run it down.
Depends how long a lead acid battery has been off charge whether 12.75v resting is too low. Right off charge, yeah. Three hours or more off charge, probably not.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
I disagree unless it's on it's way out or has a small constant draw on it to draw it down. A fully charged 12V battery will measure 13+V for several days after a full charge, usually even longer.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains. Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152
Oil Expert
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152 |
Quote:
I disagree unless it's on it's way out or has a small constant draw on it to draw it down. A fully charged 12V battery will measure 13+V for several days after a full charge, usually even longer.
My battery instructions called for minimum 12.7v after charging and that’s about what I see
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
I am speaking from personal practical experience as a mechanic.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains. Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
|
Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
My SM has an AGM & has been off the tender for a couple of days now, last run yesterday. I just measured resting voltage at the tender sae connector with a Deltran USB voltmeter...it was at 12.9v resting.
AGM's tend to hold voltage a bit higher than old school wet cell, however I yet to have a wet cell - or for that matter an AGM - hold north of 13v for a long period while off charge.
Cars, boats, motorcycles, lawn tractors, scooters...
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2 |
Sorry, I should have been more specific. The bike does not turn over. The lights and blinkers work. The solenoid is good. The battery is adequate. The blinker relay makes a clicking sound when I push the start button. My first check is from the battery to the starter. I will get to the starter on the weekend. I suspect it will also be good. This leaves the switches to test, clutch, kickstand and start button. The clicking blinker relay is giving me a hint of where the problem is but I do not understand what it indicates.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80
Loquacious
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80 |
The battery may read okay but leave a volt meter hooked up and see what happens when you hit the start button. My money say your battery is bad and your voltage reading will drop dramatically.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
Quote:
leave a volt meter hooked up and see what happens when you hit the start button.
That's what I said 4th post down! 
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains. Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80
Loquacious
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80 |
Great minds think alike... 
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2 |
I took the old battery out of the system and used a new car battery to boost. I replaced the solenoid. I applied power directly to the starter motor while it was still in the bike and it did not turn. You would suspect the starter to be the problem. But, my experience has been starters just don.t stop they have that nasty grind till it catches, Then there is that clicking sound from the head light relay.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80
Loquacious
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80 |
So... you connected battery + to the post on the starter and battery - to the case of the starter and nothing happened? Strange stuff there. Not a good idea to use a car battery really.. lots more amperage, may damage other things.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
If you put the positive power from the battery directly to the post on the starter and the negitive post connected directly to the case and nothing happened you most likely have no brushes left or the armature or commutator are shorted. In other words you probably need a starter. This is assuming that the engine is free and nothing is broken inside binding the gears.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains. Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2 |
I bench tested the starter and there was no response. Ian, I also understand that this probably means I need a replacement. It just seems odd the way it quit. The ticking sound from the headlight relay, from reading does not seem to indicate a problem.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 4
Should be Riding
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 4 |
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2 |
That is exactly what happened with mine. The magnets broke apart. Funny the only indication that something was wrong was the occasionally failure to start first time. Seemed like a loose connection.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 4
Should be Riding
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 4 |
that's weird, because I had never heard of it happening to anyone else before or since mine until now
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80
Loquacious
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80 |
First I had heard too.. as best as i can remember.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211 Likes: 2 |
I replaced the starter motor and still no response other than the ticking from the headlight relay when the start button is pushed. I crossed the starter solenoid and the starter turned. So I know it works. The solenoid is new. In hindsight I think the broken magnets in my starter would not present a problem unless they caused the starter to jamb but this is unlikely as the magnetism still hold them in place against the starter casing. I picked them out in pieces and assumed that was a problem. So back to the headlight relay that plugs into a wiring harness that holds 5 wires that most if not all relate to starting. That will leave the headlight relay to test to find out if the ticking indicates it works or is broken
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 514 Likes: 2
Adjunct
|
Adjunct
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 514 Likes: 2 |
Well if you've tested from the starter back to the solenoid you need to go back further which it sounds like you have. ALWAYS check the ground attachment point to the frame and check the engine to the frame ground and use an ohm meter to make sure you have good reading from the engine to the frame. Is the engine mounted on rubber bushings? If it is then the engine ground point needs to be good.
Have you taken the start button apart and cleaned the contacts in there. Just because you can hear the solenoid "picking up" there may not be enough voltage to really hold it against its contacts inside the relay. I'm no wizard on electrical but did have a bike that needed the starter button internals cleaning.
Last edited by mcfcinusa; 08/04/2019 10:55 PM.
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5
Learned Hand
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5 |
Everything I'm about to tell you is from recollection ( I am not an electrician or a mechanic - nor do I play one on TV)
Many years ago I had a similar problem. I had power to everything but it would not start (I think I recall there was clicking)
I recall having the good sense to check battery voltage.
Someone advised e to jump the solenoid.
It started.
I took the jumper off and tried it again and, as before, it wouldn't start.
In the process I checked my fuses (Visually) on more than one occasion.
After a day on tinkering and cussing, I stopped at my local triumph shop to either get some advice or make arrangements to get it hauled to the shop.
I explained my issue to Don, the best wrench I've ever met, who asked if I'd tested my fuses, I said I did. He asked If I looked at them or really tested them. I had only LOOKED at them. He explained that there is a safety device ( I'll call it an interlock)designed into the system to prevent the bike from starting if the headlight were to burn out. He asked if my headlight was working and I said it was. He told me to get a fuse tester.
The result was a visually undetectable blown fuse. I changed the fuse and many years later it is still starting. I don't recall this happening to anyone else, but, it is a possibility and the fix is dirt cheap.
2004 Triumph Speedmaster (J Lo) 2006 Yamaha Stratoliner (Adele)
|
|
|
 Re: will not start
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
I have seen the blown fuse that you can't see is blown before, you can detect one with a test light if you have one. Ground the wire and use the pointy end through both little access windoes on the back of the fuse.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains. Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
|
|