 Ooops
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22 |
Always suspected that it's not an entirely brilliant idea to mix electrickery and fuel anywhere other than in the cylinder.
Can't understand why every bike with an in tank pump doesn't just explode.
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374 |
I'm with you, pretty much every new car and bike has a electric pump in the tank, I would think they would all explode at some time, yet nothing. I guess it's sort of like the old drop a match in a full bucket of gas trick, nothing happens.
Tin Man 2
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Trouble is as the tank gets empty the pump is no longer submerged. Also very hard to service in a car, no reason not to have it located under the hood or on the frame under the car. Some used to mount them in both places.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
I'm still trying to understand how gunpowder works never mind tall that snap,crackle, and pop electric stuff
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Trouble is as the tank gets empty the pump is no longer submerged. Also very hard to service in a car, no reason not to have it located under the hood or on the frame under the car. Some used to mount them in both places.
I'd like fifteen minutes alone in a room with the sob engineer that thought up the idea to put the gas pump in the tanks of cars and trucks. 
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
and by the way, I learned of another brainiac practice on a modern car. A friend of mine bought a pretty nice used Cadilac for a song last week. It wouldn't start. Everybody thought it was the "smart" key, and they only had one. Turned out that the starter was bad. And get this, the starter is INSIDE the engine. You have to pull the intake manifold off to service it! 
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
Quote:
Quote:
Trouble is as the tank gets empty the pump is no longer submerged. Also very hard to service in a car, no reason not to have it located under the hood or on the frame under the car. Some used to mount them in both places.
I'd like fifteen minutes alone in a room with the sob engineer that thought up the idea to put the gas pump in the tanks of cars and trucks.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Quote:
Quote:
Trouble is as the tank gets empty the pump is no longer submerged. Also very hard to service in a car, no reason not to have it located under the hood or on the frame under the car. Some used to mount them in both places.
I'd like fifteen minutes alone in a room with the sob engineer that thought up the idea to put the gas pump in the tanks of cars and trucks.
It has to do with pump mechanical advantage, at first cars had a tank pump and a secondary high pressure pump as well, no more. Same reason many water wells have the pump all the way at the bottom of the casing, more efficient. Having changed a couple of shot out in the tank pumps, I can relate to the frustration. And why do they always seem to quit when the tank is completely full of fuel? 
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Quote:
and by the way, I learned of another brainiac practice on a modern car. A friend of mine bought a pretty nice used Cadilac for a song last week. It wouldn't start. Everybody thought it was the "smart" key, and they only had one. Turned out that the starter was bad. And get this, the starter is INSIDE the engine. You have to pull the intake manifold off to service it!
A very few are smart enough to put an access door for the pump in the floor of the trunk or under the back seat.
Fords like Taurus and Explorer you have to pull the intake to change the sparkplugs.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374 |
In my youth I had a 1960 Chevy with a straight 6, You could about sit next to the engine to change the plugs. Of course you had to do the plugs about every 10K or so, I think the new Fords need plugs at about 100K so there is that.
Tin Man 2
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
100k on a set of plugs? The most I ever heard of was about 20k on iridium plugs.Technology certainly advances faster than I can keep up with it.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Quote:
Quote:
and by the way, I learned of another brainiac practice on a modern car. A friend of mine bought a pretty nice used Cadilac for a song last week. It wouldn't start. Everybody thought it was the "smart" key, and they only had one. Turned out that the starter was bad. And get this, the starter is INSIDE the engine. You have to pull the intake manifold off to service it!
A very few are smart enough to put an access door for the pump in the floor of the trunk or under the back seat.
Fords like Taurus and Explorer you have to pull the intake to change the sparkplugs.
Agreed, my Volvo fuel pump is readily accessible through the trunk floor. But they rarely fail. Knock on wood.
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
In my youth I had a 1960 Chevy with a straight 6, You could about sit next to the engine to change the plugs. Of course you had to do the plugs about every 10K or so, I think the new Fords need plugs at about 100K so there is that.
And "that" is a lot.
I wouldn't want to have to go back to 1960s & 70s maintenance requirements. YMMV
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Quote:
Quote:
In my youth I had a 1960 Chevy with a straight 6, You could about sit next to the engine to change the plugs. Of course you had to do the plugs about every 10K or so, I think the new Fords need plugs at about 100K so there is that.
And "that" is a lot.
I wouldn't want to have to go back to 1960s & 70s maintenance requirements. YMMV
I would in a second if the low cost of repairs and ease of getting to the parts came with it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 514 Likes: 2
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 514 Likes: 2 |
Electric fuel pumps don't explode because they are enclosed in fuel.
Having no oxygen means no combustion, Air is approx 78% nitrogen and 20% oxygen with traces of other gases. The best thing for an in tank fuel pump is to keep it submerged and this helps keep it cool. My 944 has an external fuel pump mounted next to the fuel tank so it's not too bad to change out.
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374 |
I do a bit of wrenching on cars and have seen some ugly blackened and half melted fuel pumps, shocking that I have not heard of a single fire. The pumps are not submerged in fuel when the tank is on E. None the less they seem to work out just fine. DUH
Tin Man 2
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22 |
Oh arrh....these new fangled fings....I've run good few Guzzi California's and the early fuel Injection ones have a pump and filter external to the tank...much better in my humble.
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
Quote:
Quote:
In my youth I had a 1960 Chevy with a straight 6, You could about sit next to the engine to change the plugs. Of course you had to do the plugs about every 10K or so, I think the new Fords need plugs at about 100K so there is that.
And "that" is a lot.
I wouldn't want to have to go back to 1960s & 70s maintenance requirements. YMMV
I do love the reliability and longevity of the modern stuff.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688 |
Quote:
and by the way, I learned of another brainiac practice on a modern car. A friend of mine bought a pretty nice used Cadilac for a song last week. It wouldn't start. Everybody thought it was the "smart" key, and they only had one. Turned out that the starter was bad. And get this, the starter is INSIDE the engine. You have to pull the intake manifold off to service it!
Common practice for some Toyota and Nissan V8 engines as well they mount the starter in the valley under the intake manifold like the Toy Tundra 4.7L.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688 |
Quote:
Quote:
and by the way, I learned of another brainiac practice on a modern car. A friend of mine bought a pretty nice used Cadilac for a song last week. It wouldn't start. Everybody thought it was the "smart" key, and they only had one. Turned out that the starter was bad. And get this, the starter is INSIDE the engine. You have to pull the intake manifold off to service it!
A very few are smart enough to put an access door for the pump in the floor of the trunk or under the back seat.
Fords like Taurus and Explorer you have to pull the intake to change the sparkplugs.
Just the upper plenum not the whole intake. Many modern V6 engines are built that way the engineers are trying to get the optimum size intake plenum and runner length for the best powerband yet keep the intake low enough to fit under the hood. Pulling the upper plenum once every 100,000 miles to replace the spark plugs really isn't a big deal. The payoff is a modern 3.7L v6 gets 305 horsepower and 31 MPG without a turbo on regular gas.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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Re: Ooops
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688 |
I don't mind the tank mounted fuel pump/filter/gauge sending unit modules so much because they are usually very reliable and quiet and of course the all in one unit is quicker and simpler for assembly line workers. The thing I hate is the new high pressure direct injection engines. Direct injection is the new high tech BS that is over complicated and in the real world causes intake valve carbon fouling since fuel is not being sprayed behind the valve to keep it clean. The performance return is hardly worth the cost and complexity of the secondary engine mounted high pressure pump and combustion chamber injectors.
Last edited by outerbanks; 11/27/2016 10:05 AM.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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