Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech irrational power loss

so my 2002 bonny american (cali Model) has been acting funny. it started by almost complete power loss a few months ago. took it to mechaninc they said i overfilled the tank and plugges up the charcoal canisters. so it cost me 40$ for them to let it sit and evaporate and tel me something wrong.because it has since done this on a few more occasions. so this is what ive done as time has gone by. ived removed the charcoal evap system and plugged the vaccuum ports along with removed the unneccesary vaccuum lines, i removed the extra AI system after it happened again thinking it was running to lean and choking out the engine, i chaned the plugs after checking them to insure it was running lean... whichi it was. i upgraded to ngk iridium. the next tim it did it i thought it had flooded with gas and thought maybe since i had been running seefoam at one point then switched to k100 that maybe there was some debris clogging the fuel system so i drain the tank and pulled the carbs and gave them all a good cleaning and replaced the inline hidden filter with a visible pod filter, the problem remained. so i thought maybe the exhause had collapsed. so i check the pipes and see the behind the baffle that the pipes was not in proper alignment... on iether side. so i did the only thing i could afford and knocked out the baffle plate at the reear of the exhaust. and boom she started running fine... until the next day and back to the bucking studdering and power loss. there is a slight noise whichi think is valve noise . but after this long diatribe, does anyone have any suggestions? im at a loss, dont have enough money for a mechanic, and am looking for info instructions as to how diagnose/repair this issue.

what do you mean by power loss? pipes inside silencer are offset by standard, are all rubber caps on carbs and intake manifold all right no cracks ,check for cracks on rubbers connecting manifolds to carbs ,carbs to airbox does it happens when engine is hot?

Is it running on one cylinder when it does it. I am worried about the CDI .

Also check for vacuum leaks around the intakes. Does sound like a CDI going wonky though.

CDI? Coil? Vacuum leak? Oil pressure? Oil level? Clutch slippage?

We left out the pick up on the stator, cylinder compression, and crappy quality California gas..

Thought pretty much everything in Kalifornia was crappy.

checked my caps all good sorry forgot to mention i replaced the carb boots to intake head, thought the glue on the airbox boots is deterioratring

Not everything in California is crappy. In fact, if you live back east and want a classic that isn't terminally oxidized (total rust bucket) this is where you come to get it.

oh im not in cali im in upstate ny, and run 91 nonethanol oil level is good as far as pressure no clue. and im a newb to enignes well as far as beyond plugs oild changes and quick easy changes like carb boots. this was the first tiome id ever done anything with carbs, i did a lot of research and watched a lot of youtube videos before i did it. i took my time wrote down all the counts for settings as i dissasembled and reassembled exactly as they were. i know its due for the 12k valvee adjustment and have a little valve noise. that was gonna be my next step. but the cdi? feel like an ass asking but what is it. i understand the coilsthough. and how can i check compression and oil pressure?

yeah but man is there some excessive epa regs out there. all they do is add weight and give something else to break. but it is warm and sunny with year round riding so not all bad i guess.

yes it seems to rear its ugly head most often when hot. occasionaly even after time to sit and clue , hour hour and ahalf.

ha

Capacitor Discharge Ignition. Its the brain that fires your plugs when they are supposed to fire.

Does one cylinder stop running when you lose power? If so is it always the same cylinder that stops running.

Perhaps, pulling one sparkplug wire at a time when your engine is acting up to see if it dies or keeps running the same would be revealing? Another tip off that only one cylinder is firing, would be a comparison of the heat from your exhausts in them being the same perceived temperature or one side noticeably cooler. That your bike being as old as it is and never a problem with your CDI module is kinda rare. I keep a spare in my saddlebag, just because.

I've never had a CDI problem with my 03 America or my 04 Thruxton. Thought I did with the Thruxton, "Does one cylinder stop running when you lose power? If so is it always the same cylinder that stops running". The bike would idle fine and run fine for two blocks, then loss of power in a cylinder. Turned out not to be the CDI, but a bad float.

Rather than chit chatting he still has not said exactly what he means by lost power. Does it stop running or one cylinder stop running? Does it pop, break down?

His closest Triumph dealer is probably 100 miles away living up above Albany.

My point was we need a little more info than irrational power loss as that could be a list of things so long I don't have time to type them.

just to rule out a blocked tank vent. when it starts acting up next, crack open the gas cap a bit, just enough to break the seal and see what happens.

also it may be worth pulling off the petcock and cleaning that out, there is a screen filter in the tank that can get clogged up and restrict fuel flow.

these suggestions assume that it is not a CDI problem (which it could well be). but they are easy to do and will not hurt anything.

If he would say if it stops running, runs on one cylinder etc. when it is hot we can start narrowing it down. I still don't have a clue of what he means by losing power.

i have to go from 1/4 throttle to 3/5 throttle and drop a gear to keep moving
is what i mean by power loss

sorry bout all that yeah it seems to stop one one cylinder, i checked the floats they were good. its been kicking back through the carbs to the air box. i pulled the filter and started the bike and put my hane in the box to see which side was kicking. the left seemed to be the culprit. i was hoping it wasnt electrical.that ****** is expensive. 300 for the cdi, 140 a piece on the coils, or atleast that i could find.
i pulled the tank petcock and everything cleared and cleaned,

Pull your tank and switch your coils/wires. See if the other side acts up. If it stays left it very well could be carbs. I have trouble thinking a float would stick when hot though.

If it goes to the right the coil could be bad or the CDI. I worry about the CDI because it acts up when its hot. The CDI is right on the spine above the motor.

I don't have right answers but you need to start eliminating some things before you can get a direction. If we get electrics out of it then its gas. TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) should have nothing to do with heat.

A hanging up, intake valve would cause a loss of power and a kickback back through a carb, too.

thanks ill try switching the wires tomorrow, is there a way to test the cdi before changing the coils to make sure im investing to the correct repair?

I don't know how to test the CDI. I was lucky enough to have another available my bike would run well for about 20 minutes then die off to one cylinder. I went through 2 CDIs on two 2005 Americas.

hey just doing some research the nology coils, which are cheaper than the gills, are reviewed to be the way to go if replacing, i saw 2 options that fit my bike, a basic nology firestarter (limited description) and nology firestarter .6 ohm. a} what is the differnce b} which would be the better way to go. they both cost the same 70 each.

Do you have a tip over valve still?

Sorry,I haddn't seen all the posts.If one cyl is cutting out I would also think of CDI.

yes still have the tip over valve, after trying all of the suggested test, the only thing i can determine is that its the cdi. i ordered a Performance CDI Ignition Box from procom. supposedly better than the gills and about 70$ cheaper. heres hoping, ill know in about a week if it fixes the problem when it shows up in the mail. thanks for your advice and help guys, ill update when it arrives.

When mine went I ordered firestarter and I'm very happy.

Update. CID worked for a day. Now the bike won't start at all. It cranks and cranks. Them I hear a sound like something is trying to catch them it stops cranking. Hit the starter again and the same thing hapens. Lost right now. Need her to run. Hoping it isn't the clutch. I was liking up things randomly and found a clutch plate kit (cork based) and it said can't be used with synthetic oil. I did an oil changed recently to synthetic. Didn't think to check on what the stock plates were. Could this be a possibility?

No the bike would start in neutral regardless.

It didn't do a big backfire through the carbs on the last time it started did it?

Stop tinkering get your part. Park it.

There is a boss inside that holds your starter gear in place. You really don't want to break that.

Your wet clutch will run on synthetic by the way. It just may not like it.

Synthetic is not a problem but be sure you use a good quality motorcycle oil like Amsoil or Mobil 1. Motorcycle oils do not have friction modifiers like car oils do. Those friction modifiers are bad for the clutch. That being said the clutch is not your problem, sounds like you may have a starter issue now. Bad sprag clutch or broken boss allowing the starter intermediate gear to move out of place. The latter is a major problem, can be fixed but not for the homeowner to do, you need someone skilled to make that repair. It is not a part to be replaced but the case is broken if that boss is broken.

Oil I used was Mobil 1 20w50 full synthetic and added Lucas oil motorcycle le stabilizer. Mind you I've put over 3k in miles on her sine I got her about 2 months ago. I do have a car. I got the bike to help reduce gas consumption and actually earn money from my check. My commute went from 30 min to 1.5 hr. I'm going to check to make sure I didn't randomly blow a fuse. And then to double check for spark. Hoping the new CID blew the ignition coil can't afford the boss repair. I looked that up and saw people saying multiple thousands.

When ever you put an additive in a modern oil all you are doing is screwing up the additive package already in the oil, especially in a high grade synthetic like Mobil 1. Then you choose a poor additive like Lucas. You are basically pouring 90w oil in with your 20w50 in an engine designed for 15w40 or 20w50. If the Mobil 1 you used was not motorcycle specific Mobil 1 you put the wrong oil in your bike that is not compatible with a wet clutch. I have been working on bikes for over 40 years and also managed a tire and lube for 4 years recently so I have some education as far as lubricants go.

The boss can be fixed a lot cheaper than that, multiple thousands is to replace the broken cases.