 Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
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I wouldn't buy a water cooled bike so looks like it's used from here on.
So when was the last time YOU walked into a dealership and bought a brand new motorcycle?
2005 and paid cash.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
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If that is anywhere close to what it is going to look like it is not just water cooling it is losing the classic look too.
Ya know Ian, I don't think there's ever much that you and I ever agree on, is there?!
'cause I THINK from those spy photos this newer water-cooled Bonnie sure as HELL has retained its "classic retro look"!!!
(...nope, don't think you and I ever agree on much at all, do we!) 
Looks like a freakin' Honda.
So Ian...two questions:
Doesn't the state of Pennsylvania require a vision test before they issue drivers licenses?
(...and if they do, then how the hell do you continue to legally operate a motor vehicle back there???)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,271 Likes: 17
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,271 Likes: 17 |
Ok kids back to the topic. While some of Triumphs designs are quirky (Moto Guzzi / BMW come to mind) I don't believe there's a Triumph model I would not own, I love them all! Let's see what they bring to market. Then we can nit pick it to death. 
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212 |
I get what Ian is saying and i thought about that when i bought the Storm, but now i don't even notice the rad, and it has not stopped the many people coming up and looking at it and going "thats a triumph" cool! There are plenty of really good bikes out there with carbs and air cooled etc that will keep the purests busy for a few life times yet.
2007 Speedmaster and miss it!
2013 T-Bird Storm and Luvin it!
Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at 70 mph can double your vocabulary
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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I drive commercially.
Well then, while you're out there on the road "driving commercially", then ya MIGHT wanna occasionally take a few seconds and glance at some of the motorcycles you see on the road and take note of the different design cues each particular brand of motorcycles bring to the market.
(...and once again notice the earlier points I brought up about how one can distinguish between a Triumph motorcycle and a Honda motorcycle...and yeah, EVEN IF each brand of these motorcycles might happen to be WATER-COOLED!!!!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
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Until the vapors emitted from the exhaust are so clean, they can be piped directly to the riders face in the advent of oxygen deprivation, we will see more and more draconian design changes, all mandated by the worlds different versions of our EPA. Even the mighty Harley is now liquid cooled as stealthily as their engineers could manage. Remember, our EPA now legally considers what we exhale as a pollutant. We might be wearing our own personal cat converters before it's over.
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Well Ryk, all I can say here is that with my formative years having taken place within the confines of sunny and warm Greater Los Angeles California during the 1950s and a time before any thoughts of governmental mandated vehicle emissions had been enacted, allow me to tell you here how the air of L.A. of THAT time is VERY akin presently to what those poor Chinese bastards living in Beijing are breathing TODAY, and ALL because of what the idiots running China today think of "environmental issues"!!!
(...yep, the air in today's Los Angeles is QUITE a bet more breathable than it was in the '50s, and even WITH an increase of registered vehicles of probably ten fold there since those halcyon days of my youth)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
According to my local news, 70% of the air pollution in the Pac NW comes from China, so I must concur.
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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I just got my latest edition of Motorcyclist magazine in the mail and just finished reading an almost full page "sneak preview" write-up on this new water-cooled Bonnie. And yep, evidently the fellas at THAT magazine ALSO seem to think that there are A LOT of "old school" Triumph design cues to be found on this soon-to-appear new model comin' from those lads at Hinckley U.K. (...and funny, but NO mention of "Honda" was EVER printed in that article...but yeah, they're just motojournalists, and so what the hell do THEY know, RIGHT?!!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
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People resist change regardless if its for better or not.
Then again, not so sure oil in frame was the smartest thing on earth.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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The OIF Triumphs of '71 and beyond were actually a great "idea" Ron, as they were patterned after the proven Trackmaster frames which Triumph factory AMA riders were racing in the late-'60s. I always thought the mistake was made in their tinware, as the blokes from the Small Heath factory(the location of the then BSA-owned parent company of Triumph) and many of them with no personal motorcycle design experience at all, would be the ones responsible for the less than successful style of the bodywork on the post-1970 model year BSA/Triumph lineup. And of course, when Honda(saaaay, there's that name again ) introduced the seminal and groundbreaking CB750, it was pretty much all over but the shoutin' by '71 for the "RESISTANT to change" Brits, and as I'm sure you know!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
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I had a 72 OIF TR-6 (Tiger) that I purchased brand new and the oil tank leaked profusely, due to shoddy welding. To me, then and now, there will never be an excuse for workmanship like that. Honda s innovation may get the Lion s share of credit for Triumphs demise, but their own factory workers rightly earned some of the blame.
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
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I sold my T110 for a 1971 Tiger.The worst bike I've ever owned. The oil in the frame could have been a good idea if they hadn't made the bike so tall. The "breadbasket"tank and as you say the "tinware" and poor quality control was a death blow to Triumph.They discounted them very heavily here,but people still bought the 650 Yamahas and 750 Hondas in preference.The Z1 900 Kawasakis came in 1972 and they sold like hot cakes too.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
I had a 72 OIF TR-6 (Tiger) that I purchased brand new and the oil tank leaked profusely, due to shoddy welding. To me, then and now, there will never be an excuse for workmanship like that. Honda s innovation may get the Lion s share of credit for Triumphs demise, but their own factory workers rightly earned some of the blame.
Couldn't agree more with ya here, Ryk. However, least we not forget that the lads at Meriden were not being supplied with the latest and best tools and facilities as were those working in Hamamatsu, and most likely because of the aforementioned "resistance to change" and reinvestment into the core product the Brit management seemed to possess at the time.
And so, I doubt we can lay sole blame at the feet of Blue Collar Clive for the decline of the British motorcycle.
(...remember, the general consensus within the "White Collar" and the decision making part of BSA/Triumph LTD at the time was that "The Japanese pose no real threat to our continued domination in the "big bike" market, and so why change what we're doing?")
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
I sold my T110 for a 1971 Tiger.The worst bike I've ever owned. The oil in the frame could have been a good idea if they hadn't made the bike so tall. The "breadbasket"tank and as you say the "tinware" and poor quality control was a death blow to Triumph.They discounted them very heavily here,but people still bought the 650 Yamahas and 750 Hondas in preference.The Z1 900 Kawasakis came in 1972 and they sold like hot cakes too.
Yeah Paul, the seat height on the '71 models was one of the major complaints by the public, and thus the reason the '72 models came with their frames rear section "subframes" welded lower down to the backbone and oil bearing frame tube.
(...kind'a shocking it only took ONE year for them to figure this out and change it, isn't it?!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
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You learn something everyday.I didn't know they'd done that.but after the awful '71 I went for a 650 Yamaha then a Sportster[another disaster] then came back to Triumph with a 1976 750 Bonneville which was a good bike
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
Quote:
Quote:
I had a 72 OIF TR-6 (Tiger) that I purchased brand new and the oil tank leaked profusely, due to shoddy welding. To me, then and now, there will never be an excuse for workmanship like that. Honda s innovation may get the Lion s share of credit for Triumphs demise, but their own factory workers rightly earned some of the blame.
Couldn't agree more with ya here, Ryk. However, least we not forget that the lads at Meriden were not being supplied with the latest and best tools and facilities as were those working in Hamamatsu, and most likely because of the aforementioned "resistance to change" and reinvestment into the core product the Brit management seemed to possess at the time.
And so, I doubt we can lay sole blame at the feet of Blue Collar Clive for the decline of the British motorcycle.
(...remember, the general consensus within the "White Collar" and the decision making part of BSA/Triumph LTD at the time was that "The Japanese pose no real threat to our continued domination in the "big bike" market, and so why change what we're doing?")
The Bosses supposedly said that little Japanese bikes were fine but when riders were experienced and wanted more they'd switch to British bikes!
I also heard Triumph broughtin a German efficiency expert to sort them out and he supposedly told them not to cut workers from the floor but to cut up the top end of the business.Apparently they took no notice and cut workers from the factory floor with resultant drop in morale and quality control and the business died.
They should have introduced floggings until morale improved.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
They should have introduced floggings until morale improved.
And Captain Bligh would have said...
"Hmmmmm...capital idea!"
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
The American import OIF models didn't come with a "bread basket" tank thank God.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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We got a mixture of breadbasket and traditional bonneville style tanks here.Surprise,surprise,the traditional style sold out fast.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 797 Likes: 17
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 797 Likes: 17 |
So what will the America/Speedmaster 1100 semi water cooled bikes look like? A 790/1100 set of bookends could be a cool combo.
Road Rash Heals. Freckles Grow Back. Ride
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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If it looked like my 2007 BLUE and White America.which is the best looking model ever.  I'd be Happy,Happy,Happy, 
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 797 Likes: 17
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 797 Likes: 17 |
I just got my 2005 America, but every time I get on her I marvel. I am 5 feet 8 inches tall and around 190 lbs and she is a perfect fit. I would like to ride the present model just to feel the ride and see what the EFI is all about.
I did test ride the Thunderbird LT and really did not like the feel. It just felt big and wide.
An 1100 water/cooled America/Speedmaster would be a nice size for two up cruiser/touring. I think there really is a place for a middle weight with class in the market.
If Triumph can get this right it could be big.
There is always room for 2 bikes in the garage. My 2005 is going nowhere. My daughter is asking me to teach her to ride and she could not be better off than with the 2005.
If Triumph messes this up you are correct. Used air cooled models will be around forever.
Road Rash Heals. Freckles Grow Back. Ride
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Quote:
If Triumph messes this up you are correct. Used air cooled models will be around forever.
Not so sure about that with the lack of cam bearings. Once the head wears out you need a new head.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Quote:
Quote:
If Triumph messes this up you are correct. Used air cooled models will be around forever.
Not so sure about that with the lack of cam bearings. Once the head wears out you need a new head.
I say our heads can be line bored to accept two piece babbitt clad or single caged needle bearings or whatev', maybe even a non machine shop method with an epoxy. We will eventually see somebody innovate a proper fix for this obvious shortcoming in the design. At least we have people in the game such as Pieman working on needed fixes like this.
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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Ryk,Ian,There's a flaw in the heads on our bikes? I thought these things'd do 300,000 ks before they wore out. 
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Have you done a valve/shim change on your bike yet? Our cams spin in a simple set of trunnions that are part of the actual head casting, when they (trunnions and caps) wear out due to normal wear through mileage or inadvertent oil starvation, the only fix is to buy another head casting, whereas modern design dictates there should be replaceable bearings in lieu of what Triumph has deemed good enough without. New bare head castings run from $875-975 and will only increase in price as time goes by. The cams are rebuildable by metallic flame spraying and a regrind, the heads as of now, not so much. It's inevitable, the heads will eventually wear beyond spec and there is no pat procedure to rehab them as of yet. Like I posted earlier, I believe there is a viable solution to be worked out here.
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Triumph is not the only company using this method. These motors have proven to be good for 100K just the way they come from the factory, I bet very few bikes ever reach 100K in their lifetime. Look at the low value of used America's, You can get a used low mileage bike for 3K,much like the rest of the metric bikes they are simply not worth rebuilding.
Tin Man 2
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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I'm like my hero "Oddball" Ryk.
"Oh man, I just ride on 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work"
[Actually I'm too crippled up to do much work on my bike these days, opposed to days gone by]
I had my mechanical geniuses, genii?[there's two of them]do the valve shim check at 30,000ks and they were all in spec.and that's when one of them told me there seemed to be no discernible wear on the engine.That made my day.
Interesting what you describe though.Could be a problem in years to come but as you say,someone like Pieman,or maybe BC customs will hopefully come up with a solution.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 1
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 1 |
I have heard of at least one Bonneville out there with at least 155,000 miles on it so I personally am not concerned with the head wearing out. That being said, there are complete low mile motors out there starting at around $1k. As was previously mentioned there are also plenty of low mile bikes out there for low money, heck I just saw a 2003 Speedy with 6700 miles on it going for $2800 a few hours away from me. What I would not recommend us doing is holding our breath and hoping for an 1100cc America/Speedmaster. If the rumor of an 865cc water cooled motor to replace the current one on an entry level holds true, I have a gut feeling that the America/Speedmasters will get saddled with that engine and not the 1100cc. That way Triumph can push those wanting a bigger cruiser engine to the Thunderbird models.
2006 865 Neon Blue/Jet Black Speedmaster,790cams, TTP Stage 2 Firestarter, Epco Exhaust with 10.25" Samson Vrod baffles, UNI pods with 40 pilots, 150 mains,Thruxton needles, 3 turns out.
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Quote:
Triumph is not the only company using this method. These motors have proven to be good for 100K just the way they come from the factory, I bet very few bikes ever reach 100K in their lifetime. Look at the low value of used America's, You can get a used low mileage bike for 3K,much like the rest of the metric bikes they are simply not worth rebuilding.
I beg to differ, I have 21 bikes and most are 1954 through 1972. My 66 TR6C has at least 3 times that on it, probably more. My 54 T110 also has at least twice that on it as does my 58 T110. They have had multiple rebuilds but no major components such as heads have been replaced.
Now that I think of it, I lied, the 58 had the head replaced long ago due to an inherent defect in those old aluminum 8 bolt heads. They didn't change the design when they went from iron heads to aluminum and the valve seats were too close to the head bolts and they cracked. The later 9 bolt heads fit and that has been done on that bike.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Dog, I stand by my statement, very few bikes get the miles you put on. You are a rare bird.
Tin Man 2
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22 |
Quote:
I sold my T110 for a 1971 Tiger.The worst bike I've ever owned. The oil in the frame could have been a good idea if they hadn't made the bike so tall. The "breadbasket"tank and as you say the "tinware" and poor quality control was a death blow to Triumph.They discounted them very heavily here,but people still bought the 650 Yamahas and 750 Hondas in preference.The Z1 900 Kawasakis came in 1972 and they sold like hot cakes too.
I agree the tin work was terrible but the OIF was a problem for me due to height. Why would you take a low center of gravity bike and make it taller? If you had to buy a tall bike, you may as well buy a tall fast bike with 4 cylinders for the same money.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Never a fan of the OIF bikes even though I have 2, they are T120V bikes. Too tall and the styling sucked too. The tank was nice in 72 but it didn't fit the rest of the bike well.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 1
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 1 |
My local dealer just posted some pics of the new bikes on their Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/183709818306233...183709818306233
Last edited by JD13; 10/27/2015 10:25 AM.
2006 865 Neon Blue/Jet Black Speedmaster,790cams, TTP Stage 2 Firestarter, Epco Exhaust with 10.25" Samson Vrod baffles, UNI pods with 40 pilots, 150 mains,Thruxton needles, 3 turns out.
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
I didn't see a cruiser there. I would like to see really good shots of it now that it is public too.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Update on the water cooled Bonneville
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Looks like this is pretty much what was on stage. picturesNot a fan.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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