Settle down Brad

I think you mistook my statement.. I was just batting around your idea of culture being a key factor, when I think that it might not be as important as you suggest

What we have in the Middle East is a culture of violence and terrorism.

And along those lines, I agree there has been a history of violence, but how much of that is a result of culture? How different is it really from the history of violence in europe? One thing I do see in common is that when a single individual or handfull of individuals rule the people unconditionally without any input from those governed, we generally see the most violence.

So we have "beaten Saddam Hussein" but the fighting continues. The enemy is a guerilla group that exists even though we have "installed" a Democratic government.

True, Saddam is outta there.. but I think it's a bit premature to say that we have 'installed' a democratic government, or at least a functioning one. And doesn't that take us to the solution portion of this discussion? How did we install that government? How could have we done it differently and in a non-agressive fashion?

What happened in Turkey to set it apart, and could that apply today?

Exactly.. what happened. First off, the change was not forced upon them. If anything, history has taught us that the use of force generally just produces more resentment and violence. Think from the perspective of those in Iraq.. we invaded their country, bombed their cities, destroyed their infrastructure and have thrown the country into turmoil. We had no real plans for any kind of temporary government, other than a military one, and no real plans on how to provide the infrastructure necessary until one could be created (even though we knew that infrastructure was going to be destroyed by our actions!). It's hard for the people to see long term goals when they are busy just trying to live day to day, no matter how grand those long term goals are.

If we look at Turkey, and I'm sure Tad could provide a much greater insight, I see that the major change occured after the invading British and French forces were repelled and the country liberated. This prompted the formation of a National Assembly and the first steps towards democracy and a goal of modernization. Then in 1947, the US declared the Truman Doctrine (in a large part to thwart Soviet intentions), which guaranteed the security of Turkey and Greece, and later began providing large scale military and economic support. Several iterations of government followed, eventually resulting in a true democracy while maintaining the cultural herritage of the region. What I see as a lesson from this is that it was the people of the country who initiated the change when given the chance, along with assurances of non-agression and aid.

To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.