 Police/press query
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
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This is not to encourage politics. After watching the terror in Boston, and earlier national tragedies, I am of the opinion that the police and the press post too many details of how a case is solved. They go on at length about how the "cell phone records" will be traced, how they tracked down the suspect/s using such and such a device, etc. It seems to me that this could be a mistake. Especially to real nut case/terrorists who are planning their next attack. They easily learn what not to do and how to get around certain police strategies. Am I wrong in thinking this? Do we have a right to know all the details of how a crime is solved? I'm all about freedom of the press as a check for those in power, but this kind of thing seems short sighted to me. 
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Police/press query
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I'm sure there is plenty the public doesn't know about how these things really get investigated. The just caught the 2nd bad guy tonight. Nothing highttech about how that went down. A citizen called about someone being in a parked boat. The true terrorists know the only way to get away with this stuff is to blow up along with the victims. The boston bombers weren't true terrorists they were just 2 stupid kids ,ones dead and the other wishes he was too.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
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Arstaren, you have a good point. Showing all your cards off at the table may not be the best strategy.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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The extent of the media coverage was ridiculous.
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Re: Police/press query
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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and yet they still caught/killed them.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
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We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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OP
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
The TV networks (over the air AND cable) were as bad as they are on election nights. Hours and hours of meaningless speculation, no facts and then hours of self congratulatory talk once it's over. I wish they would just shut up until there is actually something to report, report it, then shut up again.
  
The thing that drives me the most nuts is the speechs, especially any by the President. First, the talking heads tell you what he is going to say. (cause they have the speach in advance) Then the President/speachmaker tells you what he has to say. Afterwards, the talking heads tell me what he DID say, and then graciously tells me what he meant by what he said. (Like we're all idiots)
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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OP
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
The boston bombers weren't true terrorists they were just 2 stupid kids ,ones dead and the other wishes he was too.
I don't think I can agree with this. The older brother was 26 years old and an engineering student. The younger was 19 and in college also. "Stupid kids" would be a description of young guys throwing a beer bottle out of a window at a crowd. Not two educated men planning and setting off massive bombs, designed with shrapnel, intended to kill and maim hundreds.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Now, you fellas DO know that the thing sittin' on your coffee tables that looks like THIS...  ...can be used to either turn that thing off that's causin' all your consternation here, OR can also be used to CHANGE THE FREAKIN' CHANNEL, right?!  (..I mean right now I'm watchin' a pretty good old Tracy and Hepburn flick on TCM...though yeah, it IS in B&W, and I know how that kinda turns some people off TOO!!!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
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Quote:
Arstaren, you have a good point. Showing all your cards off at the table may not be the best strategy.
+1
There was a case overhere,I think it was bike gang related, that was blown because of media coverage.I'm sure it has happened a lot.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
What really bothers me is how the TV networks describe in great detail where the weak points in the power grid, defense systems, etc are and how to exploit them. When we were officially at war, they would try to show as much as possible that would give away the locations of our troops.
I remember when newsreels would start with "Somewhere in the Pacific" and never show anything that could narrow the location down to anything less than 2000 miles.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
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Quote:
Now, you fellas DO know that the thing sittin' on your coffee tables that looks like THIS...
...can be used to either turn that thing off that's causin' all your consternation here, OR can also be used to CHANGE THE FREAKIN' CHANNEL, right?!
(..I mean right now I'm watchin' a pretty good old Tracy and Hepburn flick on TCM...though yeah, it IS in B&W, and I know how that kinda turns some people off TOO!!!)
+1 A voice of reason lifts above the crowd. You make a good point, Dwight!!
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Heck Keith, I'm surprised YOU even know what THAT IS???!!!  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
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Quote:
Heck Keith, I'm surprised YOU even know what THAT IS???!!!
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,202 Likes: 11
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,202 Likes: 11 |
And for sure... the "true" terrorists are already a step ahead of "cell phone records", and such... Police and media will always be a step behind about this stuff... it has to be used once to know about it and track it down that way. Trouble is the real "nutcases" like you say have a lot of imagination... And like Keith, I don't have a TV...
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 68
Member
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Member
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Here's a real "FOX NEWS ALERT"... you are so correct about the media!
Bluto
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Re: Police/press query
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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There wasn't anything sophisticated about the bombing. It required no engineering degree to make the small bombs they used. There was no connection to any of the terrorist groups other then the crap that they absorbed from them. They were 2 stupid kids who wanted to be real terrorists but they didn't have the guts that a real terrorist would have. They placed the bombs and got out of the way instead of going off with them. This thing could have been pulled off by anyone with a sick mind and internet access.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
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While I would never censor or hinder free press. I think it would be prudent for police to keep some of their methods under their hat.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Police/press query
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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They do loco. Do you think they just throw it all out there for the press?
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
The press reports everything they can get their hands on. One New York news paper printed the pictures of a couple of guys calling for citizens to turn them in if they see them, and they were not even suspects. Point being the press reports what ever they get their hands on in these cases. For the sake of the police being able to do their jobs it might help if they were able to not do an interview while on a man hunt, and tell exactly where they are looking. I followed the news on this as best as I could, and many times thought, gee if they had a radio they would know where police are.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Police/press query
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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My wifes side of the family are all police or agents . I can tell you that the police and fed agencys keep most of the key evidence and focus of investigation to themselves. Thsee 2 dumba$$e$ were caught pretty quickly and the press does what it does because its as much for entertainment as for news. I would certainly have a press the way it is now then infringe on even one freedom of speech right. This thread is nothing but armchair quarterbacking.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
+1 A voice of reason lifts above the crowd. You make a good point, Dwight!!
Good grief don't say that. He already has to have his helmets specially built to fit his head.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 819
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Apr 2008
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Quote:
My wifes side of the family are all police or agents . I can tell you that the police and fed agencys keep most of the key evidence and focus of investigation to themselves. Thsee 2 dumba$$e$ were caught pretty quickly and the press does what it does because its as much for entertainment as for news. I would certainly have a press the way it is now then infringe on even one freedom of speech right. This thread is nothing but armchair quarterbacking.
+ 1 I come from a family of journalists. Let's not forget that the tip that allowed the police to capture "Suspect #2" was called in by a member of the well informed public. 
I would be unstoppable if not for law enforcement and physics.
2002, Cardinal Red & Silver
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
There ya go.
Balance.
It seems to be the way nearly every time. Too far one way or the other and ya fall over.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
+1 A voice of reason lifts above the crowd. You make a good point, Dwight!!
Good grief don't say that. He already has to have his helmets specially built to fit his head.
Yep, these XXXL sized helmets are SO hard to find!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,590
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,590 |
Quote:
The extent of the media coverage was ridiculous.
Or if you find yourself coming down with a bad case of the 24/7 endless-loop news blues, you can always put on some Joe Cocker, Johnny Winter, Roomful of blues, perhaps some Allman Bros road tunes. Cranked of course
jh
"It's not what I say that's important, it's what you hear" Red Auerbach
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
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Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 72
Member
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Member
Joined: Feb 2013
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I have been an investigator for twenty years now, with some cases that have recieved national and international attention.
There is nothing the media is reporting on that a bad guy doesnt already know, or can find out easy. Keep in mind, a criminal or terrorist is just that, 24/7- they dont work in shifts; its who they are.
The harm to law enforcement comes from television shows. The First 48, is a real concern to me, because it guves bad guys insight into interview strategies.
The CSI shows are the worst. People have real bad information from them, and when they get on juries, they can be pretty stupid.
The reason modern media covers events like this is there is all kinds of competition. They know viewers pop in and out of the news, and will stay tuned only if it interests them.
Also dont get caught up in the whole Miranda issue. Miranda is an interview requirement, not an arrest requirement. Most arrest of major criminals, by uniform coppers, are not read Miranda. Detectives read them at the interview phase. If a miranda violation is made, it affects the interview- and maybe only a portion. The whole case isnt thrown out.
No matter how Cynical I become, I can never keep up.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 490
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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I think this goes further than the talking heads generating stories and finding a way to fill a 24 hour newscast. I think there is too much information being thrown out there, I am talking about national security when it comes to news outlets exposing information that may harm the US. I do not agree with a complete shadow government but there are some things that should not be brought to light. Many of you will disagree with this but I think the Red Cross reports on Gitmo and interrogation methods being brought to light for political partisanship damage the country and only serve to stir the hornets nest in the terrorist community (Yeah, I know that they hate us already). If we had the 24/7 media cycle back in 1944 we would have never pulled off the Normandy Invasion. There are somethings that we have to allow our Military to do without oversight.
These words from A Few Good Men come to mind:
"And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
Ride like you mean it.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 26
Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2012
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I can tell you as a Detective having worked a ton of cases that the media covered. The guys and gals working the cases DO NOT feed the media our strategies, leads, and evidence. As some of you know, the Boston PD radio transmissions were available on the internet as unfortunately most are-including my agency. I heard the capture live and watched as FOX then jumped all over it as I'm sure they were listening too. Most frequencies aren't secure although they should be. I can recall several cases of mine where incorrect and potentially harmful information was "leaked" to the public. Where does it come from? A lot of times it's civilians who see us in a certain area doing certain things or guys on the fringe of the investigation who think it's "cool" to be the one to tip off the media. Most of the time it's a higher up who has never worked a case and want's to feel like he's important. Leaks hurt us and at times have gotten people killed. Brad S was right, CSI and shows of that sort have hurt us because ever JQ citizen now expects DNA on every case. Not reading miranda warnings is nothing new. Let's say you have a child kidnapped. Do we read miranda so he can contact a lawyer and weigh his options or do we question him and find the kid? At that point the prosecution can wait, we want the safety of the victim and public secured.
PS If I were to catch a person in my department providing information on one of my cases I would be taking them to the basement to loosen up a few molars.
You buy the ticket, you're gonna see the show.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,286 Likes: 65
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,286 Likes: 65 |
Just to through a spanner in the works are we sure these were the guys who did the dead? Look how easy it was to convince everyone that locking down a city was an acceptable act.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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OP
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
That's one of the problems with imagination, a distrust of powerful governments and a little cynicism. Conspiracy theorists are gonna have a field day with this one after the dust settles. Sometimes I think we all watch too many movies.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Yea Joe, you may have a point there. What options did the people actually have though?
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
"a distrust of powerful governments and a little cynicism" is a feature not a bug in free societies.
It's also interesting to note that a private citizen found the perp when the lockdown was lifted.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 490
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 490 |
Quote:
Just to through a spanner in the works are we sure these were the guys who did the dead? Look how easy it was to convince everyone that locking down a city was an acceptable act.
On target: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219969
Ride like you mean it.
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
... Look how easy it was to convince everyone that locking down a city was an acceptable act.
Happens often during an active hurricane season.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Nothing wrong with a healthy dose of distrust for government and power. Nothing wrong with questioning them.
Ya just gotta be reasonable and logical about it.
Locking down a city while hunting a bombing terrorist that they just has a shoot out with may have been the best way to protect the people from these guys and make it hard for them to slip away unnoticed.
I can't think of what would have been better at this point but am open to suggestions.
If they had locked down something larger like say all major cities or even the whole state, that would raise my eye brows.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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OP
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Quote:
Just to through a spanner in the works are we sure these were the guys who did the dead? Look how easy it was to convince everyone that locking down a city was an acceptable act.
On target: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219969
If you like Rush, you'll LOVE this guy. Not that he doesn't make a few good observations.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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OP
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Nothing wrong with a healthy dose of distrust for government and power. Nothing wrong with questioning them.
Ya just gotta be reasonable and logical about it.
Locking down a city while hunting a bombing terrorist that they just has a shoot out with may have been the best way to protect the people from these guys and make it hard for them to slip away unnoticed.
+1 Although its a lot more "entertaining" to rant about police state tactics and ineptitude, as posted on a highlighted site here.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Police/press query
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,284
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,284 |
With the internet and complete freedom of information and the highly competative nature of journalists getting the "scoop", there will never be a chance for anyone to hide thier cards anymore, those days are gone.
I'm from Boston. I know people who were injured. The trooper from the Bomb Squad who pulled suspect 2 from the boat is a close friend of mine. Many of my friends were involved in the manhunt. While the kid was just outside of the perimeter so he did go unnoticed for the bulk of the day, he had been hit the night before and this was known. when he was pulled from the boat, he was near death. There certainly was an element of luck in his capture, (a citizen noticed blood on his boat cover), the same is true of Timmothy McVeigh's capture. It is amazing that 2 terrorists, who thought they'd never be caught were grabbed within 5 days.
The decision to lock down the very small city of Watertown was a wise one, not only to capture a terrorist who had already used a WMD to kill/maim a great # of our citizens, but to further protect the surviving citizens from a now desperate fugitave who still possessed more WMD's. It is not strange that all who question the decision seem to be from locations far away from Boston.
All this said I hope and pray that nobody here is ever effected by a horrible situation like this. There is 4evil in the world. These 2 morons picked the wrong f#%$in' city to bomb!
Strangler
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