 Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,839 Likes: 3
Loquacious
|
Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,839 Likes: 3 |
I think something that indian hs going for itself this time is that polaris has an extensive dealer network whereas before you coudnt find a dealer. True Triumph started out with the same problem and still has a bit of that problem but its getting better. He did have the sense to use the names that we all know and that helped. I think polaris useing an engine that resembles an old sidevalve is a positive and should spark interest. But with their deep pockets and network I believe Indian has a fighting chance this time around. I don't hope or wish the demise of any brand nd I am sure it would take an act of God to put a dent in the motor companies buisness but if Polaris prices it right and builds a solid trusty bike I believe we will be seeing new Indians pop up in at least as many numbers as Victory. This will be interesting to watch unfold. I for one can't wait to see this new engine up close. But I am sure I won't be jumping ship....Triumph oil runs in my veins. Lol no I have never had it tested for brand or weight so don't ask lol  
ENJOY!!!!! NEWT!!!!!
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22 |
I have mixed emotions about the Indian being a real knockoff as the real deal can never be had. The company went under more than 1/2 century ago. But I think they will do well and be absolutely beautiful.
My problem, to drift a bit from Indian, is my Victory. It is 7 years old now. Runs like the day I bought it and I simply can't break it. Polaris makes such a good bike, nobody really ever needs a new one. Kinda like Triumph. Granite comes to mine.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Yep, a lot of good point here, newt! However, I do have one thing that was stated in the interview with the head of Polaris and which I question, and that is his idea that "Indian dealerships will be separate and all to themselves". Ya see, my thoughts here rre that because Indians will be a high-end product and thus fairly low-volume in sales, how does he expect a "Stand-Alone" dealership such as this to do enough business to STAY in business for very long. I would think that the ONLY way such a dealership could move enough product in order stay in business would be for his Indian brand dealerships to ALSO market Polaris' other products, such as their quads and snpwmobiles and such. (...wouldn't ya say?!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
I don't know about that, Ron. It seems to me that opposite of your argument, the idea that a product's quality and reliability would be subpar, would have a MUCH more negative effect upon their sales than would your apparent idea that something is so well made that people would shy away from future purchases of it. (...wouldn't YOU say?!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22 |
I didn't type it right. I am thinking if you own a Victory you have no need for a new bike. Meaning they may not get Vic riders off their rides to buy the Indians.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
I didn't type it right. I am thinking if you own a Victory you have no need for a new bike. Meaning they may not get Vic riders off their rides to buy the Indians.
Oh... I might think about trading in one of the Visions on a new Indian if the right deal comes along. 
Dwight, I just saw that "their way"/"the highway" ad today. I saw another 2-page Indian ad recently.
The left page had a B&W photo of HDs riding in formation with "Black Sheep" superimpsed.
The right page had an Indian rider with "Wolf".  
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Aaah....yeah, I suppose that that might be true. However, in a similar vein, I believe this brings me to another minor little issue I have, and that would be that while the people who have fallen in love with their Victory motorcycles might not switch brands, with both Polaris' motorcycle brands now basically only offering Cruiser style machines, it seems to be that without doing as John Bloor's company did by offering not only "Hertiage-based Retro/Cruisers" in their line-up but also branching out into the modern Sportbike, Sport-Touring and Adventure bikes too...well, it seems to me that Polaris is trying to take two bites out of the same apple here, which as you sorta mentioned would leave all their potential customers(and once again, close to the SAME market share) having to make that "either/or" decision within Polaris' complete product line, right?!
Yep, it seems to me that it's time Polaris considers having their Victory brand branch out a bit and into those other motorcycle niches, because without the "hertiage factor" going for them(which of course their Indian brand has in spades) Victory's hands wouldn't or shouldn't be tied to just making cruisers, and thus not competing against their "sister company" for the same limited Cruiser market share of people who are looking for an alternative to H-D's line-up...right?!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
 Yeah, that's pretty good ad copy TOO, Kevin! 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,271 Likes: 17
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,271 Likes: 17 |
Quote:
Aaah....yeah, I suppose that that might be true. However, in a similar vein, I believe this brings me to another minor little issue I have, and that would be that while the people who have fallen in love with their Victory motorcycles might not switch brands, with both Polaris' motorcycle brands now basically only offering Cruiser style machines, it seems to be that without doing as John Bloor's company did by offering not only "Hertiage-based Retro/Cruisers" in their line-up but also branching out into the modern Sportbike, Sport-Touring and Adventure bikes too...well, it seems to me that Polaris is trying to take two bites out of the same apple here, which as you sorta mentioned would leave all their potential customers(and once again, close to the SAME market share) having to make that "either/or" decision within Polaris' complete product line, right?!
Yep, it seems to me that it's time Polaris considers having their Victory brand branch out a bit and into those other motorcycle niches, because without the "hertiage factor" going for them(which of course their Indian brand has in spades) Victory's hands wouldn't or shouldn't be tied to just making cruisers, and thus not competing against their "sister company" for the same limited Cruiser market share of people who are looking for an alternative to H-D's line-up...right?!
Right on bruther,
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,335
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,335 |
While at bike week we got to meet Arlen Ness and his son while at the Victory trailer. They have been working with Victory from almost day one, but have no connection with Indian. Polaris has the Victory bikes that are more futuristic looking and the Indian bikes that will always be nostalgic. Polaris plans on keeping the styles completely separated.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026 |
Dwight, did you not read the article I added? Polaris knows that to make high end(as it has been) is a fail, they aim to be priced much more affordable, that is smack at aim at HD(and the others really), and that is the area that success will be achieved. High end only is a major fail, it always is with a motorcycle.
I think that the emphasis on styling that pays homage to past design(while adding modern touches) will draw a variety of customers, and Victory guys would be a big draw, as the Victory bike design is not a timeless look, so making a change would be a big draw and they would have a first hand experience and belief in the quality and engineering that Polaris has been commited to.
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Aaah....
Yep, it seems to me that it's time Polaris considers having their Victory brand branch out a bit and into those other motorcycle niches, because without the "hertiage factor" going for them(which of course their Indian brand has in spades) Victory's hands wouldn't or shouldn't be tied to just making cruisers, and thus not competing against their "sister company" for the same limited Cruiser market share of people who are looking for an alternative to H-D's line-up...right?!
Ah... not exactly.
Dwight, with this post you're precariously close to falling into that category of being a Keyboard Captain of Industry - motorcycle riders that think they know better than a $3 BEELION powersports company. 
As previously beaten into the ground, Victory has grown from "who?" to Number Two in 15 years in the 1400cc and up market. Victory builds a performance cruiser with great power and handling. It's what they do, and they do it well.
They may offer some other style machines "some day" but not anytime soon. Look, even the Victory faithful have been clamoring for a starter bike, dual sport or sport bike, but it just ain't happening this year.
As evidenced by the Indian magazine ads, they are clearly targeting Harley. While it's true that some Victory riders will naturally gravitate to their sister (brother?) company, Polaris Indian is hell bent on cutting into the traditional HD market. It will be interesting!
Anyways, I gotta laugh when I read opinions like this, 'cause I often wonder why no one asks when KTM or Ducati is going to "branch out" and build a cruiser style machine.
Last edited by Speedmaster05; 03/22/2013 6:09 AM.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
"Keyboard Captain of Industry" here, Kevin.  And so, to answer your question of: Quote:
Anyways, I gotta laugh when I read opinions like this, 'cause I often wonder why no one asks when KTM or Ducati is going to "branch out" and build a cruiser style machine.
Ever heard of the Ducati Diavel? 
(...don't ya just hate it when someone answers your question with another question?!)
Okay, maybe the Diavel isn't a "retro style"(read: Harley-esque) "Cruiser" per se, but it's certainly more a modern "Power-Cruiser" than anything Ducati has ever built in the past, right?!
And don't forget, Ducati not only offers the latest greatest and expensive Sportbikes in the world, but has also offered up much more affordable and reasonably priced "Naked" bikes in the guise of their "Monster" series for years now too, right?!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
Dwight, not even the "black" version of the Diavel qualifies as what anyone considers to be a "cruiser".
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
ANYONE?! Now Kevin SURELY you know that similarity to how many of the Triumph "Traditionalists" out there have always felt that our BA and Speedies are not "Real Triumphs", many of the Ducatisti out there have felt the very same way since day one of its unveiling about the Diavel because they're "too Cruiser-ish".
(...you know, the same way many of the BMW Faithful felt about the R1100C when it too was on the market?!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Oh, and btw Kevin, I'm sure you picked up on the idea that when I mentioned those "Triumph Traditionalists" above, I was primarily speaking of those fellas who like to dress up as "Ton-Up Boys" and who call themselves "The Brit Iron Rebels", RIGHT?!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Looked up the current Indian dealerships listed on their site. (In case I win the 300+ million dollar lottery on saturday) Looks like there are only six. Guess if I win, I'll have to bankroll my own Indian dealership locally. (And don't worry, after I win, I'll still talk to youse guys) 
Fidelis et Fortis
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
(And don't worry, after I win, I'll still talk to youse guys)
"TALK"???!!!
Hell, after havin' to put up with YOU all these years, the very LEAST you could do is give us all a free Indian Motorcycle T-shirt from your dealership, you freakin' "Big Spender" you!!!!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816
Freelance Jedi Knight
|
|
Freelance Jedi Knight
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816 |
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Looked up the current Indian dealerships listed on their site. (In case I win the 300+ million dollar lottery on saturday) Looks like there are only six. Guess if I win, I'll have to bankroll my own Indian dealership locally. (And don't worry, after I win, I'll still talk to youse guys)
This will be one of the challenges for growing the Indian brand.
You won't see too many new Indian dealers until the bikes are produced and start to sell. I'm pretty sure Victory, and probably Triumph experienced the same kind of growing pains but survived it.
Luckily, I've got an Indian dealer less than 50 miles away so when I win the Powerball tonight I can go straight to buying the motorcycles without having to invest in a dealership.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22 |
A ray of hope that they will sell well is this thread. This thread is riddled with some very staunch Triumph only folks. Almost no big cruiser with anything that resembles a V gets good vibes here. A normal response and observation not a negative reaction.
Most here think this bike is very interesting. I will tell one of the reasons. I have said it before many times. The failure of Buell will not be the failure of Indian. The past failures will not be an indication of failure for Indian.
If you make a bike it starts with the Motor{cycle}. The bike is built around the motor. Indian has its own unique motor. Just like our P twins. It will not be trying to be anything it isn't because nothing else can be it because of the motor.
That makes it an Indian instead of a cake decorated S&S or RevTech whatever.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026 |
I hope with Indian, Polaris picks better choices for dealers than it has for Victory. They didnt hook up with outstanding dealer in Dubuque, and opted for a real second rate act in Bettendorf. The sales staff is among the most ignorant and worthless groups to deal with, the facility is a dump, yet the dealer in Dubuque has a great sales staff, a nice facility, and a willingness to ear your business and take care of the customer. It will be interesting how they build the dealer network. So far, I really havent come across a Victory dealer that has impressed.
Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
So far, I really havent come across a Victory dealer that has impressed.
We've visited a crapload of Victory dealers east of the Rockies and had service done at several of them, and I can tell you that there are some real stinkers out there. But I'm guessing that goes for many brands.
The good news is, a Victory rarely breaks down and it's mostly tires and oil changes. Most dealers don't screw that up.
That being said, we've found some real gems out there as well. With many things in life, finding a good dealer or parts & service shop can be hit or miss.
The good dealers tend to stick around while the stinkers end of collapsing under the weight of their own failures.
Last edited by Speedmaster05; 03/23/2013 2:36 PM.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Fidelis et Fortis
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
The good dealers tend to stick around while the stinkers end of collapsing under the weight of their own failures.
I never could understand why there are so many "stinker" dealers out there. What is so hard about selling a good bike, giving reasonably good service and making money doing both?
Last edited by moe; 03/24/2013 8:24 AM.
Fidelis et Fortis
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Quote:
If you make a bike it starts with the Motor{cycle}. The bike is built around the motor. Indian has its own unique motor. Just like our P twins. It will not be trying to be anything it isn't because nothing else can be it because of the motor.
That makes it an Indian instead of a cake decorated S&S or RevTech whatever.
Good point and the way I always felt about all the other tries at bringing it back. I am about as hard core Triumph as you can get and I like the ideas of the new Indian so far, especially the engine design and look. If I had the cash to burn I would probably buy one to play with. ( I would still swap it for a 37 Speedtwin though.)
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
( I would still swap it for a 37 Speedtwin though.)
Is there ANYTHING we wouldn't swap for a 37 speedtwin, Ian?
Last edited by moe; 03/24/2013 8:23 AM.
Fidelis et Fortis
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
I can't think of anything!
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688 |
Quote:
Quote:
The good news is, a Victory rarely breaks down and it's mostly tires and oil changes.
...Not since they introduced the 6-speed transmissions anyway.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688 |
Indian is going to be a hard sell as a high end cruiser. It really has no continous heritage like Harley or Triumph and those old enough to afford and want one will remember the brand's recent failures. Failures that cost the owners that took a chance and bought one.
How many models will they introduce? Will they have a huge selection of paint options and accessories? Will Polaris outsource components to China like they do with Victory? The buyer of a limited production high end cruiser will probably want to order the bike his way and not just take what the dealer happens to have on the floor. This adds up to a tough business situation for it's dealers. Example: The local Harley dealers around here sell ONLY Harleys and are full of customers every Saturday...and they are buying. The 2 local Victory dealers sell at least 2 other brands of bikes and don't have as much showroom traffic..not even close. Look at the high-end buying experience in a big Harley dealership vs trying to sell a $28,000 Indian that is sitting next to a row of Japanese dirt bikes. and in the back of every buyer (and dealer principal's) mind is "will Indian stick around this time?"
The only good thing this time is Polaris does not need to make money on Indian...for a while anyway.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
The good news is, a Victory rarely breaks down and it's mostly tires and oil changes.
...Not since they introduced the 6-speed transmissions anyway.
Actually, the early transmission problems were on the 1999-2001 5-speed models only.
The 6-speed transmission came out in 2006 along with the 1600 cc engine.
But don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 490
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 490 |
I can only hope that the local Victory/Honda/Kawi/Yamaha dealer does not adopt Indian. As it stands mow our Indian dealer also sells BMW, Royal Enfield, Ducati and just took over Triumph from the worst dealer in the Central Valley. I think this line up will give the new Indian good exposure.
Ride like you mean it.
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22 |
Quote:
Indian is going to be a hard sell as a high end cruiser. It really has no continous heritage like Harley or Triumph and those old enough to afford and want one will remember the brand's recent failures. Failures that cost the owners that took a chance and bought one.
How many models will they introduce? Will they have a huge selection of paint options and accessories? Will Polaris outsource components to China like they do with Victory? The buyer of a limited production high end cruiser will probably want to order the bike his way and not just take what the dealer happens to have on the floor. This adds up to a tough business situation for it's dealers. Example: The local Harley dealers around here sell ONLY Harleys and are full of customers every Saturday...and they are buying. The 2 local Victory dealers sell at least 2 other brands of bikes and don't have as much showroom traffic..not even close. Look at the high-end buying experience in a big Harley dealership vs trying to sell a $28,000 Indian that is sitting next to a row of Japanese dirt bikes. and in the back of every buyer (and dealer principal's) mind is "will Indian stick around this time?"
The only good thing this time is Polaris does not need to make money on Indian...for a while anyway.
What components on my Victory were outsourced to China? I know the front end components are. HD front are Japanese I believe. I really don't know. Maybe as many as are on your bike? Are there any components on your Thai built bike not British?
Last I read Victory has the same percentage of U.S. parts as Harley. I am surprised somebody with a Thaiumph would be so concerned with outsourcing.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The good news is, a Victory rarely breaks down and it's mostly tires and oil changes.
...Not since they introduced the 6-speed transmissions anyway.
Actually, the early transmission problems were on the 1999-2001 5-speed models only.
The 6-speed transmission came out in 2006 along with the 1600 cc engine.
But don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.
Here is the fact: The new improved 6-speed was just introduced in 2011. Their transmissions had a such a bad reputation they redesigned it and now offer a 100,000 mile warranty for it...but not the engine or anything else on the bike. Reputation damage control.
LINK
Quote:
All 2011 models will be equipped with an updated six-speed transmission. According to Victory, all-new helical-cut gears reduce gear whine while an updated mainshaft design reduces driveline lash by 66%. The new transmission also comes with “Neutral Assist” which makes it easier for riders to hit neutral when coming to a stop.
The transmission will be covered by a new 100,000 mile warranty. Oil change intervals have also increased to 5,000 miles.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Here is the fact: The new improved 6-speed was just introduced in 2011. Their transmissions had a such a bad reputation they redesigned it and now offer a 100,000 mile warranty for it...but not the engine or anything else on the bike. Reputation damage control.
LINK
Quote:
All 2011 models will be equipped with an updated six-speed transmission. According to Victory, all-new helical-cut gears reduce gear whine while an updated mainshaft design reduces driveline lash by 66%. The new transmission also comes with “Neutral Assist” which makes it easier for riders to hit neutral when coming to a stop.
The transmission will be covered by a new 100,000 mile warranty. Oil change intervals have also increased to 5,000 miles.
Correct, the NEW IMPROVED tranny was introduced in 2011. The original 6-speed was introduced in 2006.
Let's see... all my Victory machines have been PRE-2011 and I have put a total of about 96,000 on them with nothing even close to a transmission problem.
My 2008 Vision has almost 45,000 miles on it, has killed a deer in Michigan, and slid down the road on the tipover protectors in Maryland. We didn't get a scratch on us. It's solid as a rock and as comfortable as a Barcalounger.
The one and only OEM part that has failed in 96,000 miles of Victory ownership has been a $100 clutch slave cylinder.
I have also known countless Victory riders and have spent w-a-y too much time on Victory forums over the last six years. The only transmission issues were with the 99-01 V92 machines.
Based on my discussions with riders of 2011 and later Victory machines, the difference in the transmission is negligible and it continues to be bulletproof.
Victory's reputation for reliability is well-known.
In fact, as far back as 2006, Victory was recognized in the JD Power study with 5 stars.
JD Power link
I'm guessing the Indian machines will be at least as reliable as Victory.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,701 Likes: 22 |
That is was a 2006 article that pushed me over to buying one. 1999 to 2001 Transmissions were a mess. Then again they made one from scratch forming a new company. Ignitors, coils, won't run in the rain, and the infamous starter pin break the cases deal from a much older company is not so good either. Then again Triumph may build bad electrics into the bikes to maintain tradition. 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Yep! Let's face it, IF you REALLY want a bullet proof bike, it HAS to come from Japan!
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,271 Likes: 17
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,271 Likes: 17 |
Quote:
Yep!
Let's face it, IF you REALLY want a bullet proof bike, it HAS to come from Japan!
bawahahaha, did somebody say sumpin bout Winging it
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Yep!
Let's face it, IF you REALLY want a bullet proof bike, it HAS to come from Japan!
Hey erle, news flash here:
This ain't 1976 no more, dude!
(...meaning of course, a generation ago this would have been SO true, but not so much anymore)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Indian Powerplant
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688 |
Quote:
Quote:
Indian is going to be a hard sell as a high end cruiser. It really has no continous heritage like Harley or Triumph and those old enough to afford and want one will remember the brand's recent failures. Failures that cost the owners that took a chance and bought one.
How many models will they introduce? Will they have a huge selection of paint options and accessories? Will Polaris outsource components to China like they do with Victory? The buyer of a limited production high end cruiser will probably want to order the bike his way and not just take what the dealer happens to have on the floor. This adds up to a tough business situation for it's dealers. Example: The local Harley dealers around here sell ONLY Harleys and are full of customers every Saturday...and they are buying. The 2 local Victory dealers sell at least 2 other brands of bikes and don't have as much showroom traffic..not even close. Look at the high-end buying experience in a big Harley dealership vs trying to sell a $28,000 Indian that is sitting next to a row of Japanese dirt bikes. and in the back of every buyer (and dealer principal's) mind is "will Indian stick around this time?"
The only good thing this time is Polaris does not need to make money on Indian...for a while anyway.
What components on my Victory were outsourced to China? I know the front end components are. HD front are Japanese I believe. I really don't know. Maybe as many as are on your bike? Are there any components on your Thai built bike not British?
Last I read Victory has the same percentage of U.S. parts as Harley. I am surprised somebody with a Thaiumph would be so concerned with outsourcing.
I almost bought a Victory Vegas 8-ball before deciding on the Triumph this time. The Victory had a big old "Made In China" label wrapped around the main wire harness. Nice bike though a little overdone on the all black, zero chrome trend. Priced about the same as a Harley Dyna Superglide Custom ...without the resale value of course.
This is a quote from Polaris/Victory CEO Scott Wine Quote:
“We’ve decided strategically that we don’t need to be in the seat-making business, we don’t need to be in the stamping business, and we don’t need to be in the tube-bending business,” Wine said outlining the company’s outsourcing strategy, “So we’re going to take those businesses and outsource them.”
And I have given Triumph hell around here for not building every bike in England albeit with some outsourced parts like every other manufacturer does. Engines/powertrains are still all made in England at least. By the way comparing outsourced parts for an $8,000 price point Triumph final assembled in Thailand against a high end over $20,000 Indian would be apples to oranges.
Seems like everyone can take a shot at Harley around here but the Victory boys are a little thin skinned.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
|
|
|
|
|
