Ok, if you consider 13,000 units per year verses 233,000 units per year second place. Guess someone has to be second I was referring to total sales by a MC manufacture. I'm probably wrong but Big Red used to be second and have sold a couple of heavy weight bikes, Wings, Valks, VTX etc. Man I love the Indian brand and hope this time it flies, but it is one huge mountain to climb to get into the big dollar numbers HD represents.