 Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Mar 2005
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OP
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I don't know much about the USA politics or financial situation (so I'm sure I'll be corrected  ) but it seems to me that your wise leaders are like a couple of blokes in a canoe caught in the rapids careening towards a perilous waterfall and they're doing nothing but arguing about whose turn it is to paddle. Translated: more taxes for the rich or less help for the poor. Jees, how about a bit of both just to avoid the worse consequences of doing nothing. This could drag the whole world back into recession because of silly political ambitions. I reckon all those useless politicians should be shot (just to introduce yet another highly contentious subject on this forum and start the new year with a bang).  
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
Not shot please Richard.Another black mark against guns.
Hung would be better.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,730 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,730 Likes: 5 |
The way I see it, the president won the election by both the majority and electoral votes, so he is correct in saying the majority of the US backs his plan. I'm sure all the millionaires on this forum will talk about how it's bad for their tax rates to go up...  It sure is looking bad for all parties involved that they have to try and prove who has the biggest dick, I wish we could sh¡tcan the lot of them
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
The way I see it, the president won the election by both the majority and electoral votes, so he is correct in saying the majority of the US backs his plan. I'm sure all the millionaires on this forum will talk about how it's bad for their tax rates to go up...
It sure is looking bad for all parties involved that they have to try and prove who has the biggest dick, I wish we could sh¡tcan the lot of them
On the other hand, every member of the House of Representatives was also elected by majority vote in November so it would seem they ALSO have a mandate. And since we're already borrowing 43 cents of every dollar the Federal government spends AND a 100% tax on everyone making over $100K would still leave us in the hole, perhaps we might consider NOT massively increasing spending like the electoral college winner wants us to do. We have already run out of money, perhaps it's time to cut up the credit card before we put yet another generation, as yet unborn, into perpetual debt.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
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My cat died Saturday.  That cat has been with us for over twenty years. 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Quote:
Not shot please Richard.Another black mark against guns.
Hung would be better.
Hanged.
I think they should all be replaced and no one making more than $200,000 a year should be able to run. No personal or donated money should be use to run but a certain amount of air time on radio and TV and a certain amount of other advertising should be made available to be distributed evenly among the people running. That way anyone could run, not just the very rich.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,240
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,240 |
Spending cuts. Taxing our way out of this mess is not even feasible. Start cutting spending by cutting Congressional salaries, and terminate said salaries when the term in office ends. Why reward these weasels with a six figure salary for life? Plus benefits nobody in the private sector could ever even dream of....??? Raising taxes 100% on EVERYBODY won't even scratch the surface of this deficit! Getting the economy going, however, could see miraculous progress within a short period of time, without raising taxes at all! Raising taxes results in the opposite though, stagnating the economy and eroding the tax base. More people working, more people paying a FAIR income tax, and closing some corporate loopholes so that the successful corporations that do run themselves responsibly can make a good return and still pay taxes to Uncle Sam for the distinct Priviledge of operating in the U.S.A..... Get all that right and we'll be on our way.  
Keith
Houston
Ridin'Texas
'04 Speedmaster
AI removed, Pingle, UNI Filter, 1 shim, straight-through slash-cut TORs, Stage 1 DynaJet, 140 mains, 3 turns, 16/42 final drive, 115K
2020 T120 Black
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
I agree with cutting congressional wages and no more retirement package but pay into social security like everyone else and save for retirement like everyone else. They should pass no laws that do not apply to themselves equally.
Maybe even a financial penalty for those who can not compromise to an agreement before a deadline.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 525
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 525 |
Quote:
I think they should all be replaced and no one making more than $200,000 a year should be able to run. No personal or donated money should be use to run but a certain amount of air time on radio and TV and a certain amount of other advertising should be made available to be distributed evenly among the people running. That way anyone could run, not just the very rich.
I don't think taking away the right to run for office just because they are rich is realistic. However, taking out the money factor and the onslaught of advertising it generates is a fantastic idea. Take away the corporate impact, strip things down to the basics and level the playing field. Debate the ideas and let the people decide. Let an election be about the personal vision of the candidates rather than our current model that has devolved into a system that lets the advertising dollars controlled by corporate PACs and national party sponsorship determine the majority of races.
But getting back to the original point, all current incumbents should be voted out. They have proven themselves incompetent by not being able to deal with the most important issues facing our country. They are incapable of being true leaders and all they can be is politicians. Regardless of party affiliation, I will not vote for any current incumbent in the next election(s). One of the greatest things about this country is that we CAN vote them all out!
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
The politicians in Washington need to cut spending and taxes NOW.  Stop reaching into my pocket to pay for stuff we don't need! 
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
My cat died Saturday.
That cat has been with us for over twenty years.
Sorry about your cat Erle. 20 years is a long time. Let your good memories live on.
As for the fiscal creek. Screw it - I lost confidence when #43 opened the checkbook (giving rise to the Tea Party). So, I'm officially retired as of today. I have to admit that a big part of my decision was that I'm tired of contributing so much of my income to support things I don't believe in. If it gets bad, I'll just become part of the Moocher Class that I worked so hard to support. 
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
the hammer of smiting must still be in the bed
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3 |
It's a free-for-all until then...  However, the Moocher Class that I speak of has no specific politial affiliation. They are the "soundbite voter" that only cares about WIIFM (what's in it for me?) and are encouraged by the "poll-driven politician" that promises anything to improve his chances in the next election. I don't see a solution on the horizon.
Last edited by Hermit; 01/01/2013 1:47 PM.
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Sorry about your cat Erle. Every American's taxes went up at midnight Dec. 31, back to the Clinton rates. The Senate "fix", restores the Bush rates for everyone under $400,000 a year and the SSA tax goes back to the 6.2%. The house hasn't voted on this "fix", so it's not law. This can be spun all kinds of ways, the President gets his tax on the "rich" and the House gets to technically cut taxes for everyone else. Great theater that confuses politics with good economic policy. The real battle comes in about 90 days, something the markets won't be able to blow off. Besides a recession is all ready baked in to the cake, math is hard. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
It's a free-for-all until then...
Now lemme get this straight - you mean "free for all" as a colloquial term sorta like "no holds barred" or is ya talkin' about a whole bunch of free goodies for all of us, compliments of a Socialist structure ?
..............the Hammer approacheth............. 
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Quote:
Quote:
It's a free-for-all until then...
Now lemme get this straight - you mean "free for all" as a colloquial term sorta like "no holds barred" or is ya talkin' about a whole bunch of free goodies for all of us, compliments of a Socialist structure ?
..............the Hammer approacheth.............
That's a bad one, gonna get some attention! \
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Yeah, since we're already up Fecal Creek without propulsion, we may as well taunt the hammer. I like Socialists, they taste like......manatee ! 
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Sorry about your cat Erle.
Every American's taxes went up at midnight Dec. 31, back to the Clinton rates. The Senate "fix", restores the Bush rates for everyone under $400,000 a year and the SSA tax goes back to the 6.2%. The house hasn't voted on this "fix", so it's not law. This can be spun all kinds of ways, the President gets his tax on the "rich" and the House gets to technically cut taxes for everyone else. Great theater that confuses politics with good economic policy. The real battle comes in about 90 days, something the markets won't be able to blow off. Besides a recession is all ready baked in to the cake, math is hard.
My sympathies about the loss of your beloved pet Erle. They do become part of us.
Good point Mac. Any "deal" will be based on each sides ability to spin it to their own favor.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Passed by the Senate. If the House passes (as it is expected they will):
Taxes are going up for individuals who make more than $400,000 and couples who make more than $450,000. So, taxes are being raised on the top two percent of Americans just as the President promised.
Taxes for the middle class, or people earning less than $250,000 at least, are largely protected.
Estate taxes are rising from 35 percent to 40 percent. Democrats were hoping to take it to 45 percent. Another aspect of the deal also maintains that inherited estates of $5 million for individuals and $10 million for couples to go untaxed.
The spending cuts for the military and domestic programs expected to come with the fiscal cliff have been delayed for two months. So we'll have to take up another battle in March, essentially.
Federal farm policies are extended until September, averting the so-called "dairy cliff" that was going to trigger a doubling in milk prices. A win for farmers, and cereal enthusiasts, everywhere.
A planned pay raise for Congress is cancelled.
And others, but these are the highlights
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
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The Washington Times; The "fiscal cliff" deal that was designed to save money actually includes $330.3 billion in new spending over the next decade, according to the official estimate the Congressional Budget Office released Tuesday afternoon. CBO said the bill contains about $25.1 billion in new cuts, but those are swamped by the new spending on extended unemployment benefits for the long-term jobless and other new refundable tax credits that President ****** fought for. Of those cuts, only $2 billion are scheduled to take effect in 2013. And CBO also warned that some of the cuts Congress is counting are from programs on which CBO never expected the money to be spent anyway — such as cuts to the Consumer Operated and Oriented Plan, which was part of Mr. ******'s health care law. All told, the bill deepens the deficit by nearly $4 trillion over the next decade, when the new tax cuts and spending are combined. The bill also delays by two months the automatic spending cuts slated to take effect Wednesday, with a promise to reduce spending in the future to cover for them. Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/insi.../#ixzz2Gl6wrG9lAsk Reagan and Bush 41 how those "raise taxes now and we'll promise to cut spending later" deals worked out?
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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OP
Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
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Sorry about your cat Erle. That's tough losing a family member.
I must say I am impressed everyone is playing nicely.
I particularly like Keith's, Carl's and Ian's ideas. Not easy to implement them when the current leadership/political structure is built around retaining power.
Mac is probably the most realistic. But it will never change if we decide that we can do nothing. I'm definitely not a socialist but we no longer get leaders that are good leaders and are motivated by anything but their own agendas.
This is true here in Australia as well. We've got a Prime Minister we didn't elect, with a party that didn't get the majority of votes implementing extreme laws and fiscal policies presented by extreme very small minority parties who said they would support the minority government in exchange for their policies being implemented.
Last edited by foglefar; 01/01/2013 5:14 PM.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Good info Bill and Hermit, something I didn't know was the Senate "fix" is actually an amended House bill, HR 8, that the House already passed, that gets around the Constitutional problem of tax bills having to originate in the House. Of course the House can either pass it is or amend it and send it back to the Senate. I know it's a little inside baseball, but some might be interested or not.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
My sympathies for losing the beloved pet. I know I love mine. (Finally get the last kid out the door, and now I've replaced them with animals!) Not gonna comment on the politico's. I'm too darn sick of it.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
I feel for you too Erle, God and all of you know my pets are my family. I think of them as my children.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,286 Likes: 65
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,286 Likes: 65 |
When Walmart is the chief supplier of goods making it the largest retailer in the world yet none of the goods are made by your next door neighbour who can't afford to pay taxes you expect business and low taxes to fix things? Good luck cause most people will not get rich will not even make the 100K mark and yet will need the services that we all expect here in N.America.
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 754
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 754 |
Quote:
My cat died Saturday.
That cat has been with us for over twenty years.
Erle, that's a tough blow...twenty years is a long full life for any cat....I know you'll miss it.
IMHO I think it's high time we review the Declaration of Independence....and update it a necessary...the lack of fiscal responsibility on the part of our government is appalling...and we need to take action to end the flagrant misuse of power in so far as the public purse is concerned.
Karl
Odessa, MO
'07 America, Cinnamon Girl (aka: Black Beauty or Ol' Penny) - Sit Down, Shut Up & Hang On
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
I think we are all playing nice because we can all agree spending and our leaders (I use that term loosely) have gotten totally out of control and something has to be done.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
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It looks like the House is going to pass the Senate "fix", so here is where we stand:
* U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
* Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
* New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
* National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
* Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000
Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:
* Annual family income: $21,700
* Money the family spent: $38,200
* New debt on the credit card: $16,500
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
* Total budget cuts so far: $38.50
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
It looks like the House is going to pass the Senate "fix", so here is where we stand:
* U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
* Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
* New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
* National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
* Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000
Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:
* Annual family income: $21,700
* Money the family spent: $38,200
* New debt on the credit card: $16,500
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
* Total budget cuts so far: $38.50
Nice way to put it into perspective Mac.
Now if you made the 142,710 a mortgage, the only thing different than a lot of Americans actual budgets would be that the income is low
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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OP
Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
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Wow. Mac that's a neat way of looking at it. Really out of whack isn't it.
Bill, calling the $148,000 the mortgage is a bit misleading because a mortgage is paying off an asset. The national debt isn't an asset.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 582
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2005
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eliminate foreign aid, institute a flat tax that everyone pays ( thus eliminating most of the IRS) Congress on longer gets a blank check, goes on SS like the rest of us. Lobbies & PAC are eliminate taking the extra bribe money out of congress (the opposite of Progress). the numbers are staggering. And just think 2 presidents ago we were running on a surplus. these guys should be tarred feathered & run out of town.
"Got the wind in my face the road goes on for miles...."
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
I heard the payroll tax was not even discussed. I'll be seeing around $50 less in my monthly paycheck starting Jan. 15th. Idiots.  At least the house didn't pass themselves a pay raise.
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22 |
The math really isn't that hard. You have to cut a trillion now. You can't borrow money for 10 years on a reducing scale and save money. You have to stop borrowing money all together. If its not painful its not working.
The politicians were sent to D.C. and spent money in our name over the last few decades. It is our responsibility to feel the pain of paying it off. Then firing them all. They ran it up they need to be run out on a rail.
You also can't use cuts in automatic increases to save money later. It is a no-brainer they have have to go.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
We avoided the "fiscal cliff", but we dug the canyon deeper. What can't go on forever, won't, but you might be surprised how long it can go on. Unfortunately, when it does stop, the stop is abrupt and catastrophic. To understand this all one needs to do is read any simple book on the history of money.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:
* Annual family income: $21,700
* Money the family spent: $38,200
* New debt on the credit card: $16,500
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
* Total budget cuts so far: $38.50
Nice way to put it into perspective Mac.
Now if you made the 142,710 a mortgage, the only thing different than a lot of Americans actual budgets would be that the income is low
Ot that they're spending too much on unnecessary things and bought too much house for the income they make.
Cloward-Piven here we come...
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Cloward-Piven here we come? Where have you been? 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3 |
 Waaaayyy too late huh?
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Re: Up fiscal creek without a paddle!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Quote:
the hammer of smiting must still be in the bed
Everyone takes a holiday now and then 
SMitten!
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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