Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods How I spent my weekend

Okay youz guyz, I know a lot of you got to ride cause you don't live in the tundra like us Nor Easters, but I spent the entire weekend caressing my baby. I ripped her all down and got the jugs all set to ship out first thing tomorrow morning to Wiseco to complete the big bore job.
It took me about 6 hours of actual work, about 12 hours of time spent though. A lot of beer breaks and waiting for the garage to reheat ocassionally. It all went very smoothly and I took zillions of pictures. So I will be updating my site when I get it all written up and ready to go back together.
It takes Wiseco about 7-10 days to get the machine work done so I should be all set within a couple weeks. My girlfriend was laughing at me doing the work cause she said she has never seen me get so oily and greasy. It is a pretty messy job, oil goes everywhere as you tear it down. Draining the oil first does absolutely no good since the oil is in all the hoses/cables/head and everywhere you can imagine. I did find a few quirks that i will point out in the writeup as far as things to look for that are ptoential problems. An example is that I found a couple large pieces of what appeared to be gasket material in the main oil line going from the cooler to the head. This was stuck in one of the banjo fittings and I can see where it could be a serious problem had it plugged the line completely. Someone at the factory must have been sleeping that day, who knows.
Anyway, here's a picture of all the stuff I had to take off.
The jugs are already packed up so they're not in the picture. Beer break.....

Sounds good so far Pat. Great project in the dead of winter. Your gasket material has me nervous...maybe I should do the Big Bore just to make sure everything is OK inside!
Definitely keep us posted and I expect we'll see one of your famous web write-up's on the install when your finished. I'd love to see the grin on your face after the first ride!

NICE. looking forward to reading all about it. Can't wait to see the pics.
Later

Here's a preliminary look see

Pat's New Site with big bore pictures

Nice job!

Looks great Pat!! Makes me long for a garage that isn't half full of crap:)

Pat,

Those pictures are fu*king great!

I am only at the valve adjustment level and I am waiting for my shims from Big4. I have 2 questions that pertain to this:

Picture--Spec Clearance worksheet: Your specs from the valve clearance check were outstanding. Have you ever had to replace any shims and if so at what mileage? I had one shim within spec. The other 7 clearances were to large.

Picture--Sears torx wrench: Were you talking about the torx bolts that hold the cam caps in place? I used an inferior torx head wrench to take the torx bolts out without problem. Will I screw up the bolts using this to put them back in?

I owe you many beers for all the help your website has given me. I'll pay up in May.

Later,
Paul

Aw Pat,
How could you stand it? All her guts hanging out, with black blood everywhere and her jugs were sent away for two weeks? That would require more than a "few beer breaks". I just changed my handlebars and was very disappointed that it was only a two beer job. I'll move my punkin lights later for another two beers. That's how we need to rate our mods in the future - by how many beers it takes to finish.
I can cook 3 hot dogs and make it last 5 beers if I move them to the side of the grill.
I can't wait to see the final review. Everything you've done so far has been very informative (except telling me what I need to start my own brewing).
See you in May,
Dennis

Well I see you have finally succumbed to the dreaded "I know it ain't broke, but I'm gonna fix it anyway" disease. If all does not go as planned, rest assured that the local chapter of G.A. (gearheads anonymous) will help you through it.
Actually, I wish I still had the desire to accomplish such a feat. Maybe I need the motorcyclist version of Viagra (or whatever all those Harley guys are using) to keep up the desire to "tinker" into the wee hours. Of course, as far as H-D's go usually it's pretty much a case of "have-to" just to keep the old V-bopper going.
In any event, keep up the R&D for all us armchair mechanics. Inquiring minds need to know.

admiringly, TM

Paul,
Thanks for the remarks. The pix are all sort of mixed up for now but I'll get it sorted in a bit.
As far as the shims, this is the very first time I pulled the camshafts or even checked the valves. This is at 12k miles as well. I was very happy to see the vast majority of them were dead nuts in the middle of the specs. The only two that are out are both tight too, one by 0.026 and the other by 0.051 (when compared to the others). I did some math and came up with the new values needed, something like a 2.825 and a 2.875 should get all of them to be exactly the same and right in the middle of the specs.

If you got your valve caps off with a cheap torx bit, I say good for you. Everyone I spoke with said this was a critical tool to use. I couldn't believe how tight mine were on. I had to rig up a long breaker bar to pop them suckers loose. Oh, and the cam chain tension guide blades (now that's a name for a part eeh?) use the same 30 torx and they were also really snug.
I would rather spend the $7 and be sure I have a good tip, it is really hard and sharp and didn't even think about slipping at all, even with the extreme torque needed to loosen them suckers up.
Now I need to order a crapload of O-rings, washers and 2 shims from my dealer. I figure my butt will be sore after they tell me how much the Trump parts are. This is where the excel sheet will come in real handy. I will do some looking for all the washers as I know even the stupid little oil drain plug one is about $4 but something like a Honda one is about 35¢. Same friggin part, just a simple copper washer. There are a lot of them needed with all the oil lines disconnected. I need to install my SS brake lines too and I'm sure they are the same thing going on there too. Lots of them appear to be the same sizes too, maybe a pack of 5-10 from a hardware store will suffice? Hmmm.
Bring lots of beer in May, I'll be thirsty. I'll even share it with ya.

Pat,

After reading your last post I rechecked some the the calculations for my shims and I think I really screwed the pooch. I might have ordered 7 shims of the wrong size.

See if you can help me on this.

For example:
On exhaust shim 1 the clearance is .35mm. acceptable is .275mm (.25-.30). .35-.275=.075.
My current shim is 2.84. I was supposed to add 2.84 + .075 = 2.915 and then order a 2.9 or 2.925 shim.

I ordered a 2.75 shim (2.84-.075.)

All my clearances were over specs, not under. I just spent 70 ****** dollars on the wrong size shims.

I think? I screwed up, right?

Guess I am calling Big4 tomorrow with new part numbers.
Later

Hey Pat, when you do finally get around to the spreadsheet for washers, etc, more so than part numbers, exact dimensions will be great to have too. Like a Triumph par number XXO nut might be an SS 10-32 hex nut you can get anywhere, know what I mean? I'm sure you thought of this already, but it's late and the oscars are kinda boring:) Oh wait, Selma Hyeck is on... hang on..... Ok I'm back now:)

Pat, you could always anneal your copper washers. I know you know what that entails, but for those who missed that day in auto shop class, here's how you do it: heat the copper washer(s) with a propane torch or other suitable heat source, and then drop them in cold water.

Quenching them this way actually softens them, as opposed to what would happen with ferrous metals. This makes them reusable.

Paul,
Let's see here, math time...

Your current clearence is 0.35 using a 2.84 shim.
The spec for this one should be 0.25-0.30 (Middle ~ 0.275)
The difference is 0.35(actual) - 0.275(desired) = 0.09
This means it is too loose by 0.09.
So you need to Add 0.09 to the shim.
Add if loose, subtract if tight
Therefore: 2.84 + 0.09 = 2.93 for correct clearence of 0.30.
Shims are available in 0.025 increments, so you need a shim that is 2.925-2.950 mm to get close to the correct clearence.

I bet the dealer would be more than happy to just order you new ones since you haven't used the others. Maybe....
Good luck, and good catch. You would have had a really noisy motor if you used the smaller shims.

Pat,
Thanks.
I have the correct math now and part numbers. Just waiting for 0900 to make the order.
Later
Paul

Hi Paul,

Quote:

---

All my clearances were over specs, not under. I just spent 70 ****** dollars on the wrong size shims.

---

Sorry about that. My math was reversed. Although not a consolation for having to take off, then reassemble the camshafts, I would like to buy the shims from you as I was at fault. But first, see if the dealer will swap them out for you. Either way, send me your address and I'll fire a check off to you. Let me know the cost you incurred as in return shipping or as in another order of shims. If you don't oblige me, I will plant some money on you while in Dahlonega.

PS: I have corrected the spreadsheet math. In the instance of the first valve, a new shim of 2.90mm would give a clearance of 0.29mm, which would be 0.015 higher than goal of .275mm. Override the lookup table and input a shim size of 2.925mm would give a clearance of 0.265mm, which is 0.010mm lower than the goal.

Some additional info. I just checked all the parts needed on my fische and this is what I came up with:
Seal, Cam cover screw (4) T1260209
Gasket, head gasket exhaust pipe (2) 2200019-T0301
Gasket, tensioner (1) T1140185
O Ring, camshaft oil feed (1) T3600077
Washer, camshaft oil feed,M6,copper (4) 3550042-T0301
O Rings, Breather tube ID 18x3 (2) T3600111
Washer, M10 Copper Low oil switch (2) 3550045-T0301
Washer, M14 Oil Cooler feed to case (2) 3550047-T0301
Oil drain plug washer (1) T3550092
Shim Tappett 2.825mm (1) T1130282
Shim Tappett 2.875mm (1) T1130287

Moe,

It's not a problem. John at Big4 just ordered them on Friday. I will call today and order new ones. I just got done changing the math on the spread sheet. I am just glad I caught it before I put her back together.

I should have looked closer at the numbers but my bike has been down so long that I have had no way to really clear my head.

I've got all the specs and part numbers in front of me and phone on the desk. 18 more minutes until big4 opens..

Later
Paul

Quote:

---

I see you have finally succumbed to the dreaded "I know it ain't broke, but I'm gonna fix it anyway" disease.

---

Succumbed? It is a hereditary defect I was born with, along with extreme sarcasm.

Pat,
Ditto on all the comments made. I would like to add that, unlike others, I noticed your most appropriate and tasteful use of the red/white checked table cloth. I find it to be an excellent addition to the ambiance. It’s nice to see that even with all that knuckle bustin’ and oil stains, you still manage to maintain your feminine side. Better get that baby back together soon. Spring is in the air. It’s hidden behind those snow flakes. Best of luck with the project.

Barry

With your report of oil flying everywhere even after you drained it first, now I know why my bike only takes 3.5 qts during an oil change.

So I take it the valves didn't have the dreaded carbon buildup? I guess if they were as ugly as the couple of bikes I posted links to a couple of weeks ago, then you would've mentioned it. But just for the record, could you comment on how your intake side looked like when tearing it down?

You one funny guy Barry, har har.
Actually the tablecloth is an old plastic one from last summer. I used it so I won't get scum all over my brewing bench, which is what all the pasrt are sitting on now. I'll just roll it up and toss it in the bonfire when I'm done. It'll smoke like a Harley with 50,000 miles on her. Unless you want me to mail it to your house?

Dinqua,

Achiving each step with your digital camera and organizing everything into an internet "how to" guide is a real public service that you are doing. I hope that the BA members are fully appreciative of your efforts.

I have obtained all of the specialized tools and restraining devices to replace my stock clutch with the Barnett kit. This effort of yours may inspire & prompt me to take some pictures of that task.

-BT

BT,
Yes, please do the pix of the clutch job. I'm sure a lot of folks would appreciate that very much so. If you want I will post it on my site (with credit to you naturally) if you send the pix and a write up of the process. I will translate it all into HTML if you dunna how.

Hey, that's Pat - always thinking about the sensibilities!

Clutch install photo's would be terrific.

Pat, I have to tell you how much I admire your extra large cajones for taking this project on. Perhaps, at this stage in your life (see "well seasoned"), this is no big whoop. I must say, however, that for us guys just getting into our bikes (will be 31 in a month or so)that I am sooo impressed with the fact that you are doing the work yourself. Your website is priceless, and you always have great advice. Cheers to you sir! As a fellow with a British wife and a British bike, I'd be hard pressed to say which I'd like to climb on first! Your info & experience makes me lean toward the bike though...thanks Pat!

Wyrm74,
It's funny you mention the wife, my first ex was British and her family got me into the Trumps at a very early age. A love that didn't die, the bikes that is. I'm still really good friends with her family and they all own several Trumps and like real beer. One of them even lives down in Tejas in San Antonio, he as several old Trumps and one fully restored 49 with a sidehack.
As far as tearing them apart, heck, if you rode Triumphs in the 60s and 70s you better know how to fix them or have really good hiking boots. I've pushed them many miles rather than leave them sit on the side of the road. Young and dumb, shoulda bought a truck.

Heck, what kind of stories will a truck get you, right?

Al,
He can't fool us. We know Pat has a natural touch for that Feng Shui stuff. That table cloth was the touch he needed to bring harmony to the garage. He's a true man of the new milenium - Not afraid to show that decorator that hides in all of us. Gettin' any snow down your way?
Barry

Looks like we got about 6" already and still coming down. Thought I might get to ride the first weekend in March, but that isn't looking too good now.

Oh you poor ladies down in MD that had to put up with a little snow. Boohoo! We got a good 8 inches on top of what was there and the sand will be on the roads long after it melts!! That's the real killer. Nice 50 degree day and you're worried about dumping leaving the driveway, ya know?

Pat, great work man!!!

Paul, so John is changing your order? That's great! When I looked at the spreadsheet output yesterday and saw that for too big a gap it was saying a thicker shims... duhh.

Moe,

John changed my order and I actually got a credit back on my card because some shims are cheaper than others. They will hopefully arrive this week so I can zip up my bike and head to daytona next week.

Later
Paul

I should post a pic of my Jeep with all the salt and sand all over it! IT's nuts, these NYers really freak out with a little snow...

They went crazy in this MD county last year with some sort of anti-skid material, which works in reverse on bikes in the Spring! Fortunately it was gone after a few heavy rains. I have high-performance, summer tires on my '96 Impala SS and this stuff keeps that off the road until late in Spring because it sticks to the tires and throws it up against the bottom of the car, I'm always afraid some will be thrown up against the front/rear quarter panels as well. Can't people just stay home when it snows?

Yeah you can hear the sand ping ping pinging the underside of the car, my AT's really kick it up. They are also good for tossing slush at people who tailgate me in the snow too:)

Seal, Cam cover screw (4) T1260209 - $4.95 each (ouch!)
Gasket, head gasket exhaust pipe (2) 2200019-T0301 - $6.95 each
Gasket, tensioner (1) T1140185 - $2.95
O Ring, camshaft oil feed (1) T3600077 - $4.95
Washer, camshaft oil feed,M6,copper (4) 3550042-T0301 - 95¢ each
O Rings, Breather tube ID 18x3 (2) T3600111 - $2.95 each
Washer, M10 Copper Low oil switch (2) 3550045-T0301 - $1.95 each
Washer, M14 Oil Cooler feed to case (2) 3550047-T0301 - 95¢ each
Oil drain plug washer (1) T3550092 - 95¢
Shim Tappett 2.825mm (1) T1130282 - $7.95
Shim Tappett 2.875mm (1) T1130287 - $7.95

Total regular prices was $73 before tax, they gave me a 10% discount and the end total with tax was ~$70 paid.
The parts are probably sitting down ther now, they had to order most of them in. But that only takes them 2-4 days. Especially since so many of Trumps dealers are dying off they should get parts out pretty quick now.