 Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Quote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...nn-factory.html
Foxconn is a Taiwanese company and Wuhan is a Chinese techno college town with $16,000 average income in a workers' paradise, go figure. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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I think the problem is both sides pose their arguments on moral grounds. There are plenty of "sins" on both sides. Truth is union or non-union, all the legislation in the world won't trump the laws of economics. Where unionization is sustainable it will exist, the opposite is true. 
I would make one small suggestion to your thoughts here Mac: That is that both sides pose their arguments on emotional grounds. After all hate, fear, and anger have been the most effective tools for manipulating populations for as long as there have been populations to manipulate.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
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He didn't seem to mind that 18,500 people lost their jobs and the membership wasn't allowed to vote on it.
Just where do you get your information Larry?
The membership voted to authorize a strike earlier in the month web page. That means that when the negotiators decide to call it, they have the duly authorized by vote permission of the membership.
Perhaps it was the wrong call but maybe not, no one here is familiar with anything other than whatever media you choose patronize has told you.
Last edited by bigbill; 11/24/2012 4:25 PM.
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Re: Twinkies
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Posts: 896
phoenix
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phoenix
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Last edited by bsa_bob; 11/24/2012 4:28 PM.
bob s
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
I think the problem is both sides pose their arguments on moral grounds. There are plenty of "sins" on both sides. Truth is union or non-union, all the legislation in the world won't trump the laws of economics. Where unionization is sustainable it will exist, the opposite is true.
I would make one small suggestion to your thoughts here Mac: That is that both sides pose their arguments on emotional grounds. After all hate, fear, and anger have been the most effective tools for manipulating populations for as long as there have been populations to manipulate.
How true, but then I couldn't transition in to my dramatic, "There are plenty of "sins" on both sides", sentence. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
Crap... I just realized, Dolly Madison was owned by Hostess. No more Rasberry Zingers.  http://www.flickr.com/photos/pinkcupcake22/1695490809/
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 819
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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OMG! Now I see how Twinkies can drive a person to commit horrible crimes against humanity!! It's just an ersatz cream filled spongy cake(ish) thing, not the rise and fall of western civilization!  History has taught us that politics and Twinkies don't mix.
Last edited by CynMcA; 11/24/2012 6:56 PM.
I would be unstoppable if not for law enforcement and physics.
2002, Cardinal Red & Silver
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
I have a package of Zingers and 3 cold turkey sandwiches in front of me right now.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
A local woman on the high school staff was interviewed a few days ago and they had an article about her "homemade" twinkies. She said they weren't "quite" as good as the real thing, and the picture convinced me!
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
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I guess owning the Twinkie business isn't quite as prestigious as owning a company like say, GM or Chrysler, no taxpayer bailout for them. Now if they went solar/wind powered?
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
Thanks for the clarification, Larry.
Btw, I LOVE your new H.L.Mencken quote tagline here! 
That dude had some great(though usually extremely cynical) thoughts to share, didn't he!
I'm sure many people have said this before but at my age, if you're not cynical, you're not paying attention. Also, I'm afraid H.L.Mencken's quote is about to demonstrated on a grand scale. From Greece to California the common man is about to reap the rewards of decades of short sightedness.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
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Just where do you get your information Larry?
The membership voted to authorize a strike earlier in the month web page. That means that when the negotiators decide to call it, they have the duly authorized by vote permission of the membership.
Perhaps it was the wrong call but maybe not, no one here is familiar with anything other than whatever media you choose patronize has told you.
Bill,
I used to be a member of a union. I know what they can do if they want. The union bosses always have the option of calling for a vote. The company made it very clear that a strike would kill the company. The Bakers union could have called for a vote, they chose not to. In a way, why not? After all, if the company goes broke the CEO, the management, the workers and the investors are all screwed. On the other hand, the union bosses don't lose anything and they've shown everyone else how powerful they are.
The interests of the union members who work for the company, and the union bosses who keep their jobs and get paid a very good salary no matter what happens to the company and the rank and file members, are not the same.
I saw that when I was a Teamster back in the 1970's and they called a strike vote by invitation only. 90% of us found out about it when we showed up for work and were told we were on strike.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm sure many people have said this before but at my age, if you're not cynical, you're not paying attention. Also, I'm afraid H.L.Mencken's quote is about to demonstrated on a grand scale. From Greece to California the common man is about to reap the rewards of decades of short sightedness.
I like the quote also. But if you're right about the rest, the sob corporate types have led the way, with lots of lemmings folowing them.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
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I'm sure many people have said this before but at my age, if you're not cynical, you're not paying attention. Also, I'm afraid H.L.Mencken's quote is about to demonstrated on a grand scale. From Greece to California the common man is about to reap the rewards of decades of short sightedness.
I like the quote also. But if you're right about the rest, the sob corporate types have led the way, with lots of lemmings folowing them.
I don't believe Larry is talking about corps and unions. He's talking about the inevitable sovereign default on public pensions and other entitlement promises. The total disconnect of the citizens between benefits and revenue. It will be called entitlement reform. There is actually talk in the Senate of rolling back military pensions.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the clarification, Larry.
Btw, I LOVE your new H.L.Mencken quote tagline here!
That dude had some great(though usually extremely cynical) thoughts to share, didn't he!
I'm sure many people have said this before but at my age, if you're not cynical, you're not paying attention. Also, I'm afraid H.L.Mencken's quote is about to demonstrated on a grand scale. From Greece to California the common man is about to reap the rewards of decades of short sightedness.
Yep! "Short-sightedness" alright...or SOMETIMES otherwise known as "Quarterly profits at all costs...the future be damned"!
(...oh wait, I think you ONLY wanted to make a point about the governmental angle in this coming "reaping" of which you speak, didn't ya Larry?...sorry, never mind) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
I don't believe Larry is talking about corps and unions. He's talking about the inevitable sovereign default on public pensions and other entitlement promises. The total disconnect of the citizens between benefits and revenue. It will be called entitlement reform. There is actually talk in the Senate of rolling back military pensions.
Of course it will start with military pensions. It's already starting with retired military medical benefits. I've noticed that civilian government retiree benefits have not yet been discussed. Military retirees have earned their pensions and benefits at least as much as anyone else but they (we) will be first on the chopping block. I'm sure the income redistribution programs are well down the list. Each of us can draw their own conclusions as to why the military is first up.
As the "Corporate" types. I haven't noticed them spending three dollars for every two they bring in and leaving the resulting debt for generations unborn. The $50,000 each new born American child currently owes wasn't spent by corporations, and the half million in unfunded liabilities each owes was not promised by private sector.
Just for fun look at: http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Also the: http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
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I guess we're confusing two seperate types of things, government mismanagement and Corporate. I was talking about the Corporate shenanigans. Here in my area, the last decade or so has seen many rotten deals done by corporate types. Companies threaten to move south because it's "too expensive" to produce here. Labor then takes huge wage cuts and the city gives large financial incentives to stay. Then, a year or so later, after all the money has been wrung out of the locals, they move anyway. (Usually in the middle of the night, literally, locking the doors on the way out.) Or, making deals to "build a large shopping complex". Lots of fanfare, three square blocks of low income housing tenants are forced out, buildings are demolished, city upgrades for the future needs of the corp., and then, "nope, changed our mind. Sue us if ya don't like it." I'm sick of seeing my community jerked around and treated like dirt by these corporate types and I read enough about this happening around the country that I am disgusted. Then there are a few who try and stick up for this behavior by quoting "economic models" or "government interference". Guess which former "corporate raider" candidate I didn't vote for in the last election! 
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
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Thanks for the clarification, Larry.
Btw, I LOVE your new H.L.Mencken quote tagline here!
That dude had some great(though usually extremely cynical) thoughts to share, didn't he!
I'm sure many people have said this before but at my age, if you're not cynical, you're not paying attention. Also, I'm afraid H.L.Mencken's quote is about to demonstrated on a grand scale. From Greece to California the common man is about to reap the rewards of decades of short sightedness.
Yep! "Short-sightedness" alright...or SOMETIMES otherwise known as "Quarterly profits at all costs...the future be damned"!
(...oh wait, I think you ONLY wanted to make a point about the governmental angle in this coming "reaping" of which you speak, didn't ya Larry?...sorry, never mind)
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Quote:
I guess we're confusing two seperate types of things, government mismanagement and Corporate. I was talking about the Corporate shenanigans. Here in my area, the last decade or so has seen many rotten deals done by corporate types. Companies threaten to move south because it's "too expensive" to produce here. Labor then takes huge wage cuts and the city gives large financial incentives to stay. Then, a year or so later, after all the money has been wrung out of the locals, they move anyway. (Usually in the middle of the night, literally, locking the doors on the way out.) Or, making deals to "build a large shopping complex". Lots of fanfare, three square blocks of low income housing tenants are forced out, buildings are demolished, city upgrades for the future needs of the corp., and then, "nope, changed our mind. Sue us if ya don't like it." I'm sick of seeing my community jerked around and treated like dirt by these corporate types and I read enough about this happening around the country that I am disgusted. Then there are a few who try and stick up for this behavior by quoting "economic models" or "government interference". Guess which former "corporate raider" candidate I didn't vote for in the last election!
AMEN!
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
Quote:
Quote:
I guess we're confusing two seperate types of things, government mismanagement and Corporate. I was talking about the Corporate shenanigans. Here in my area, the last decade or so has seen many rotten deals done by corporate types. Companies threaten to move south because it's "too expensive" to produce here. Labor then takes huge wage cuts and the city gives large financial incentives to stay. Then, a year or so later, after all the money has been wrung out of the locals, they move anyway. (Usually in the middle of the night, literally, locking the doors on the way out.) Or, making deals to "build a large shopping complex". Lots of fanfare, three square blocks of low income housing tenants are forced out, buildings are demolished, city upgrades for the future needs of the corp., and then, "nope, changed our mind. Sue us if ya don't like it." I'm sick of seeing my community jerked around and treated like dirt by these corporate types and I read enough about this happening around the country that I am disgusted. Then there are a few who try and stick up for this behavior by quoting "economic models" or "government interference". Guess which former "corporate raider" candidate I didn't vote for in the last election!
AMEN!
+1
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I guess we're confusing two seperate types of things, government mismanagement and Corporate. I was talking about the Corporate shenanigans. Here in my area, the last decade or so has seen many rotten deals done by corporate types. Companies threaten to move south because it's "too expensive" to produce here. Labor then takes huge wage cuts and the city gives large financial incentives to stay. Then, a year or so later, after all the money has been wrung out of the locals, they move anyway. (Usually in the middle of the night, literally, locking the doors on the way out.) Or, making deals to "build a large shopping complex". Lots of fanfare, three square blocks of low income housing tenants are forced out, buildings are demolished, city upgrades for the future needs of the corp., and then, "nope, changed our mind. Sue us if ya don't like it." I'm sick of seeing my community jerked around and treated like dirt by these corporate types and I read enough about this happening around the country that I am disgusted. Then there are a few who try and stick up for this behavior by quoting "economic models" or "government interference". Guess which former "corporate raider" candidate I didn't vote for in the last election!
AMEN!
+1
I have to ask, so when are you guys going to destroy your foreign corporate made motorcycles, autos and electronics and buy American. American made Chevy Volts are available, your fellow citizens are willing to sell them at a loss and a subsidy. HD is union made. Electronics?, can't help you there.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
I guess we're confusing two separate types of things, government mismanagement and Corporate. I was talking about the Corporate shenanigans. Here in my area, the last decade or so has seen many rotten deals done by corporate types. Companies threaten to move south because it's "too expensive" to produce here. Labor then takes huge wage cuts and the city gives large financial incentives to stay. Then, a year or so later, after all the money has been wrung out of the locals, they move anyway. (Usually in the middle of the night, literally, locking the doors on the way out.) Or, making deals to "build a large shopping complex". Lots of fanfare, three square blocks of low income housing tenants are forced out, buildings are demolished, city upgrades for the future needs of the corp., and then, "nope, changed our mind. Sue us if ya don't like it." I'm sick of seeing my community jerked around and treated like dirt by these corporate types and I read enough about this happening around the country that I am disgusted. Then there are a few who try and stick up for this behavior by quoting "economic models" or "government interference". Guess which former "corporate raider" candidate I didn't vote for in the last election!
If a corporation makes stupid decisions they either change or go out of business. Unless they can talk the government into bailing them out of course, in which case they can continue making stupid decisions as the tax payers are now on the hook for them.
Government can use some peoples money to buy the votes of other people in the name of "fairness" until. as Margaret Thatcher said, they run out of other peoples money and no one will lend to them anymore. We are approaching that point.
As for governments being jerked around by those big mean corporations, Boo freaking Hoo! Governments have been jerking everyone else around for decades. Stop treating business as a fatted calf to be slaughtered and there will be no need to make special deals with them. The US currently has the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. We also have federal and state bureaucracies that see themselves as the enemy of business. Try being in business in California, New York or Illinois where the taxes are even higher and the business environment is very hostile. Add combative unions that think THEY should set the tone for business, a legal system that sees business as a lottery and regulators that see shutting down a business as a victory and you wonder why they are moving off shore?
Demanding that investors send more money to the government so that it can be used to buy more votes for economically ignorant business hating politicians who have never worked in the private sector is a great way to ensure there will never be a real recovery.
It's funny that some consider people who earn lots of money, and want to keep it, as greedy. But not those who demand the money of others,either to spend it themselves or to buy votes and influence. Why is keeping what I earned greed, but taking money from those who earned it is not?
If you didn't vote for the "Corporate Raider" then I assume you voted for the community organizer who has never held a real job or met a payroll. Who said that he wants to raise taxes even if it results in less tax revenue and total income is reduced just because it is "Fair." Who thinks it is his mission to use to coercive force of government to "spread the wealth around.?"
As Winston Churchill said:
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
Quote:
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Thanks for the clarification, Larry.
Btw, I LOVE your new H.L.Mencken quote tagline here!
That dude had some great(though usually extremely cynical) thoughts to share, didn't he!
I'm sure many people have said this before but at my age, if you're not cynical, you're not paying attention. Also, I'm afraid H.L.Mencken's quote is about to demonstrated on a grand scale. From Greece to California the common man is about to reap the rewards of decades of short sightedness.
Yep! "Short-sightedness" alright...or SOMETIMES otherwise known as "Quarterly profits at all costs...the future be damned"!
(...oh wait, I think you ONLY wanted to make a point about the governmental angle in this coming "reaping" of which you speak, didn't ya Larry?...sorry, never mind)
Well let's get even with those nasty business types. Let's elect people who don't understand business and hate business people. Let's elect people who want to eliminate as many rich people as possible and use their money to fund "Entitlement Programs." Like that stupid tune back 40 years ago let's "Tax the rich, feed the poor, until there are no rich no more." Lets elect people who want to force businesses to pay for all the social programs they want. Yeah, that's the ticket! They're all so rich they'll never even miss it.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 348
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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All of this over a Twinkie...I can't wait to see the thread if the bacon shortage hits next year!!
A CEO that increased his salary 300% while filing for bankruptcy two times and increasing entitlements to his executives by 80%. Just throw that back into the Twinkie thread seeing how this is turning into ALL government is evil and ALL business is greedy.
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Re: Twinkies
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Posts: 5,590
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
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Topics of a political, religious, inflammatory/controversial, and/or of an intentionally disruptive or antagonistic nature are banned. Go figure jh
"It's not what I say that's important, it's what you hear" Red Auerbach
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