 Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Just wait until the legal pot in colorada takes off a bit.
Demand for twinkles will skyrocket.
You and I are old enough to know the gov will F that up with regulation and taxes. It will be cheaper to buy the illegal stuff, pot and Twinkies smuggled from Mexico. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Adjunct
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Just wait until the legal pot in colorada takes off a bit.
Demand for twinkles will skyrocket.
The last thing where demand will be is in Twinkies...I think the other states will see the amount of revenue that Washington and Colorado are about to pull in and they will want a piece of it too. These are the first two dominoes that are getting ready to tip...the others will follow soon
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Like weekends, vacation time, overtime, child labor laws, 40 hour work weeks, health insurance (yep), minimum wage, disability insurance, sick days, retirement pensions/accounts, and on and on?
Thank a union member. It was their blood, sweat, and tears that brought all those things to the rest of us. Business owners didn't start providing those things out of the goodness of their hearts.
Unions built America.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Tell that to Henry Ford's corpse. I'll give you working conditions, but health insurance was almost unheard of till wage controls. it was a way to give a worker a raise without breaking the law.
There are reasons most Americans don't want to belong to a union, with the exception of the blue model.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Adjunct
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Tell that to Henry Ford's corpse. I'll give you working conditions, but health insurance was almost unheard of till wage controls. it was a way to give a worker a raise without breaking the law.
There are reasons most Americans don't want to belong to a union, with the exception of the blue model.
I find it ironic that you use Henry Ford as an example to this argument. Ford had several revolutionary ideas and it wasn't just factory line production. For example, Ford argued that the true strength of his company would be the ability of his employees to be able to purchase the product that they labored on. Additionally, Ford paid his laborers up to $5 a day which would be the approximately $120 per day with today's standard. Ford understood the value of his labor force having purchasing strength in the economy that he was a driving factor in. You could argue that Ford was also one of the grandfather's in collective bargaining.
http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-ford-salary-increase-2012-8
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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Quote:
Quote:
Tell that to Henry Ford's corpse. I'll give you working conditions, but health insurance was almost unheard of till wage controls. it was a way to give a worker a raise without breaking the law.
There are reasons most Americans don't want to belong to a union, with the exception of the blue model.
I find it ironic that you use Henry Ford as an example to this argument. Ford had several revolutionary ideas and it wasn't just factory line production. For example, Ford argued that the true strength of his company would be the ability of his employees to be able to purchase the product that they labored on. Additionally, Ford paid his laborers up to $5 a day which would be the approximately $120 per day with today's standard. Ford understood the value of his labor force having purchasing strength in the economy that he was a driving factor in. You could argue that Ford was also one of the grandfather's in collective bargaining.
http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-ford-salary-increase-2012-8
Ford paid far more than the going labor rate, and the whole point of mass production is mass affordability or benefit. Ford was never personally the same or the way he dealt with labor after the strike. Of course now most large corps are faceless entities.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 348
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jul 2010
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Quote:
Quote:
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Tell that to Henry Ford's corpse. I'll give you working conditions, but health insurance was almost unheard of till wage controls. it was a way to give a worker a raise without breaking the law.
There are reasons most Americans don't want to belong to a union, with the exception of the blue model.
I find it ironic that you use Henry Ford as an example to this argument. Ford had several revolutionary ideas and it wasn't just factory line production. For example, Ford argued that the true strength of his company would be the ability of his employees to be able to purchase the product that they labored on. Additionally, Ford paid his laborers up to $5 a day which would be the approximately $120 per day with today's standard. Ford understood the value of his labor force having purchasing strength in the economy that he was a driving factor in. You could argue that Ford was also one of the grandfather's in collective bargaining.
http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-ford-salary-increase-2012-8
Ford paid far more than the going labor rate, and the whole point of mass production is mass affordability or benefit. Ford was never personally the same or the way he dealt with labor after the strike. Of course now most large corps are faceless entities.
That's because Ford's third component of his revolutionary model is now CONVENIENTLY overlooked by many corporations and that is the third constituent to a corporation are the employees. Today's model largely consists of the two model focus...shareholders and customers and a popular means to increase the two aspects is to filet the he11 out of the third which are the employees. The only flawed aspect to this, that Ford understood very well and why it is a major reason why we are hurting in todays practices, is that your consumer constituent focus to your business ARE the employees of the labor force as a whole. In other words, hinder the laboring class from having buying power in the economy and your product will also suffer. Hence the reason why democracies work best in a free trade market where labor has a claim in the process and elitist aristocracies that look to monopolize are a threat.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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In free markets monopolies aren't a problem, either in labor or capital. Without sanctions both move freely. Without enforceable sanctions prohibiting free entry, monopolies don't exist for long. Both labor and capital have their elitist. Aristocrat? Interesting conversation, but it's after 1:00 here, happy Thanksgiving. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jul 2010
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Both labor and capital have their elitist. Aristocrat?
Interesting conversation, but it's after 1:00 here, happy Thanksgiving.
I believe that the United States has developed it's element of an aristocracy but rather than it being of a blood line like our British neighbors, it comprises of socio and economical footholds. Carnegie, Rockefeller, Kennedy, Bush...are just a short list of examples of the type of "modern" aristocrat families I am referring to.
Either way, it was a good conversation and happy Thanksgiving to you too. We still have a lot to be thankful for 
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,301 Likes: 65
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,301 Likes: 65 |
Wow, 24 hours out of the loop watching only multiple past episodes of S.O.A. when I finished work and look at what I missed. Should us north of the border be stocking up on "Joe Louis" as well? If so don't tell Quebecors there will be a stampede like you have never seen.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Wal Mart that I work for is a good example of cutting the 3rd to a minimum. They cut hrs to a point where customer service suffers and moral is low. They ask employees to cover m,ore than they possibly can but want increased production too. Then they yell at department managers to keep moral up where all they need to do is staff properly. They would need to spend more short term but would see a larger return long term. As any big corp. they don't see this, they look at now, not 2 years or 5 years from now. When Sam Walton was alive he understood the importance of his work force and knew how to treat them. We still have remnants of that but it has become perverted and works against the worker now instead of for them. Wages keep dropping too, starter wages are much lower now than when I started. About $2 and hr less for the position I was hired for. They cut out the Sunday premium for new hires now too ,that used to be $1 extra an hr. I still get that but new hires won't. They measure time in 100ths of an hr and you can be formally reprimanded for .01 over time leading to termination after 3 offences. They seek to terminate long time employees in favor of cheaper new hires. They don't hire anyone full time anymore to avoid paying the benefits but work the part timer 33hrs.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 819
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 819 |
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Wal Mart that I work for is a good example of cutting the 3rd to a minimum. They cut hrs to a point where customer service suffers and moral is low. They ask employees to cover m,ore than they possibly can but want increased production too. Then they yell at department managers to keep moral up where all they need to do is staff properly. They would need to spend more short term but would see a larger return long term. As any big corp. they don't see this, they look at now, not 2 years or 5 years from now. When Sam Walton was alive he understood the importance of his work force and knew how to treat them. We still have remnants of that but it has become perverted and works against the worker now instead of for them. Wages keep dropping too, starter wages are much lower now than when I started. About $2 and hr less for the position I was hired for. They cut out the Sunday premium for new hires now too ,that used to be $1 extra an hr. I still get that but new hires won't. They measure time in 100ths of an hr and you can be formally reprimanded for .01 over time leading to termination after 3 offences. They seek to terminate long time employees in favor of cheaper new hires. They don't hire anyone full time anymore to avoid paying the benefits but work the part timer 33hrs.
That's why I won't shop at WalMart . . . They are part of the Evil Empire! 
I would be unstoppable if not for law enforcement and physics.
2002, Cardinal Red & Silver
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
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Tell that to Henry Ford's corpse. I'll give you working conditions, but health insurance was almost unheard of till wage controls. it was a way to give a worker a raise without breaking the law.
There are reasons most Americans don't want to belong to a union, with the exception of the blue model.
There's a big difference between not being able to be in a union and not wanting to be in a union. The billionaires writing our laws have made unions virtually illegal in many states with their "right-to-work-for-less" laws. Interestingly enough, mostly in states where the economies and wages are the worst.
Last edited by Smokey3214; 11/22/2012 11:42 AM.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,735 Likes: 7
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
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I've been boycotting wally world for a very long time. Ian used to think it was funny when I would talk about it but now he sees the truth. 
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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I've been boycotting wally world for a very long time. Ian used to think it was funny when I would talk about it but now he sees the truth.
+1
They are the destroyers of small business.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
Quote:
Wal Mart that I work for is a good example of cutting the 3rd to a minimum. They cut hrs to a point where customer service suffers and moral is low. They ask employees to cover m,ore than they possibly can but want increased production too. Then they yell at department managers to keep moral up where all they need to do is staff properly. They would need to spend more short term but would see a larger return long term. As any big corp. they don't see this, they look at now, not 2 years or 5 years from now. When Sam Walton was alive he understood the importance of his work force and knew how to treat them. We still have remnants of that but it has become perverted and works against the worker now instead of for them. Wages keep dropping too, starter wages are much lower now than when I started. About $2 and hr less for the position I was hired for. They cut out the Sunday premium for new hires now too ,that used to be $1 extra an hr. I still get that but new hires won't. They measure time in 100ths of an hr and you can be formally reprimanded for .01 over time leading to termination after 3 offences. They seek to terminate long time employees in favor of cheaper new hires. They don't hire anyone full time anymore to avoid paying the benefits but work the part timer 33hrs.
I heard the abstract of a study a couple days ago on 'All Things Considered' regarding Wal Mart wages. The study was to determine the cost to consumers for Wal Mart to pay a 'living wage', which they determined to be $25,450 (they currently pay and average $15 thousand something if you can read the golden ring of actual full time employment)) and provide basic crappy health insurance.
The amount they would have to pass on to consumers (i.e., it wouldn't actually cost Wal Mart a penny unless you feel they'd lose customers, I'm willing to bet they would GAIN customers because lots of people won't shop there now) was $0.30 per customer per visit.
Now, would you find it to be a hardship to pay an additional thirty cents on your visit to Wally World knowing their employees are paid a minimal living wage and actually get some form of health insurance? I haven't darkened their doors in years and doubt I ever will but I'd find the idea less revolting if I thought they were treating their employees with just a little bit of common decency.
I'm willing to bet if you followed the money trail you'd more than make that up on Medicaid and other supplemental assistance that you are already paying. In addition, those employees would have a more pride in their own self reliance, not a small thing.
Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving, guys and gals. I hope you and yours are safe, warm, and well fed.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
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Management should have takn some cuts but the amount would have been a drop in the bucket compared to the 18,000 plus other employees. Work rules, such as not allowing bread and cakes to be delivered on the same trucks, or that drivers could not be required to load or unload their own trucks, don't exactly help.
Additionally, the bakers union president turned down the proposed contract on his own. He didn't allow the Hostess employees to even vote on it. Let’s take a look at that president, Frank Hurt. He is paid $262,654. His assistant, Harry Kaiser has to get by with a mere $149,764.
The Bakers’ Union (BCTGM) has 58 employees. 29 of them make more than $100,000 a year.
The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers’ International Union has 8 Vice Presidents.
These 8 Vice Presidents make anywhere from $218,989.00 to $161,789.00 for a combined total of over 2 million dollars. Additionally there’s a Secretary Treasurer who makes $244,396.00.
Does a union with 58 employees really need 8 Vice Presidents?
BCTGM also has 12 representatives who make between $100,000 and $150,000. Its highest paid organizer makes $148,851.
While 18,000 workers may lose their jobs, the Bakers’ Union execs will keep their jobs and their six figure salaries. So much for "Looking out for the little guy!"
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
Quote:
Management should have takn some cuts but the amount would have been a drop in the bucket compared to the 18,000 plus other employees. Work rules, such as not allowing bread and cakes to be delivered on the same trucks, or that drivers could not be required to load or unload their own trucks, don't exactly help.
Additionally, the bakers union president turned down the proposed contract on his own. He didn't allow the Hostess employees to even vote on it. Let’s take a look at that president, Frank Hurt. He is paid $262,654. His assistant, Harry Kaiser has to get by with a mere $149,764.
The Bakers’ Union (BCTGM) has 58 employees. 29 of them make more than $100,000 a year.
The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers’ International Union has 8 Vice Presidents.
These 8 Vice Presidents make anywhere from $218,989.00 to $161,789.00 for a combined total of over 2 million dollars. Additionally there’s a Secretary Treasurer who makes $244,396.00.
Does a union with 58 employees really need 8 Vice Presidents?
BCTGM also has 12 representatives who make between $100,000 and $150,000. Its highest paid organizer makes $148,851.
While 18,000 workers may lose their jobs, the Bakers’ Union execs will keep their jobs and their six figure salaries. So much for "Looking out for the little guy!"
Very interesting. Where can I find those statistics?
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Hey! Don't give up ALL hope, all you junk food junkies around here! Yep, I just thinkin' that MAYBE some enterprising John Bloor-type billionaire might eventually purchase the Hostess brand and revive THIS company just like what happened to a certain British motorcycle company that was once run down the toilet by BOTH poor management decisions AND Labour! (...oh btw, in case you're wonderin', I ONLY spelled "Labor" here with that superfluous letter 'u' 'cause that's how those Limeys over there who made/make these here motorsickles have always spelled/"spelt" it!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Also, at Hostess if you were a worker loading "cupcakes" you weren't allowed to load bread and visa versa.
I've been on both sides of union shops, the work rules have always been ridiculous . They promote an adversarial role between labor and management in the day to day operations. I'm all for labor pursuing their monetary interest at contract time.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Dog welcome to the new norm. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
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Quote:
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Tell that to Henry Ford's corpse. I'll give you working conditions, but health insurance was almost unheard of till wage controls. it was a way to give a worker a raise without breaking the law.
There are reasons most Americans don't want to belong to a union, with the exception of the blue model.
There's a big difference between not being able to be in a union and not wanting to be in a union. The billionaires writing our laws have made unions virtually illegal in many states with their "right-to-work-for-less" laws. Interestingly enough, mostly in states where the economies and wages are the worst.
True, "Right To Work" states have lower wages on average, but they have lower unemployment and higher economic growth rates. They also have lower cost of living. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
Quote:
Quote:
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Tell that to Henry Ford's corpse. I'll give you working conditions, but health insurance was almost unheard of till wage controls. it was a way to give a worker a raise without breaking the law.
There are reasons most Americans don't want to belong to a union, with the exception of the blue model.
There's a big difference between not being able to be in a union and not wanting to be in a union. The billionaires writing our laws have made unions virtually illegal in many states with their "right-to-work-for-less" laws. Interestingly enough, mostly in states where the economies and wages are the worst.
True, "Right To Work" states have lower wages on average, but they have lower unemployment and higher economic growth rates. They also have lower cost of living.
Lower cost of living, yeah. Goes with the territory. I have seen different statistics than have you on economic growth rates and unemployment. What I have read indicates just the opposite.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Quote:
Management should have takn some cuts but the amount would have been a drop in the bucket compared to the 18,000 plus other employees. Work rules, such as not allowing bread and cakes to be delivered on the same trucks, or that drivers could not be required to load or unload their own trucks, don't exactly help.
Additionally, the bakers union president turned down the proposed contract on his own. He didn't allow the Hostess employees to even vote on it. Let’s take a look at that president, Frank Hurt. He is paid $262,654. His assistant, Harry Kaiser has to get by with a mere $149,764.
The Bakers’ Union (BCTGM) has 58 employees. 29 of them make more than $100,000 a year.
The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers’ International Union has 8 Vice Presidents.
These 8 Vice Presidents make anywhere from $218,989.00 to $161,789.00 for a combined total of over 2 million dollars. Additionally there’s a Secretary Treasurer who makes $244,396.00.
Does a union with 58 employees really need 8 Vice Presidents?
BCTGM also has 12 representatives who make between $100,000 and $150,000. Its highest paid organizer makes $148,851.
While 18,000 workers may lose their jobs, the Bakers’ Union execs will keep their jobs and their six figure salaries. So much for "Looking out for the little guy!"
Very interesting. Where can I find those statistics?
Somewhere in Larry's fevered imagination. He no doubt copy and pasted that information from some right wing lunatic web site.
The BCTGM has over 120,000 members.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Well, if ya ask ME here Bill, I'm kinda thinkin' Larry MIGHT be onto somethin' here...well, that is IF his figures are correct. Yep, ya see, I ask you...why should ANYONE who just runs those "despicable unions" ever be payed as much as 1/10th or EVEN 1/50th the salary that those "keen minds in High Finance and the corporate boardrooms"(who caused the vast majority of the problems we've faced these last 5 years) receive and "thankfully" CONTINUE to receive yearly, HUH???!!! (...I mean, you HAVE to know that those "keen minds in High Finance and the corporate boardrooms" are SOOOOOOOO "intelligent" and "far-sighted" in ALL matters, not to mention that they ALSO almost always have one of those "sheepskins" issued to 'em by some college somewhere on their wall which tells 'em that they ARE soooo much smarter than your average workin' stiff, that they just "NATURALLY" deserve all that money they receive in compensation for their "tireless efforts" year after year...RIGHT???!!!)  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 242
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Isn't it ironic that just as states have started to legalize marijuana the twinkie goes away.
08 America
Rinehart exhaust, Clearview shield, Viking bags and magic carb's
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Yeah. I couldn't help but notice that the 'exorbitant' salary of the union president is a fraction of the amount of the bonuses (not the salaries, the BONUSES, for, you know, exemplary performance) of the Hostess execs as reported in the financial disclosures of the original story.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Yeah! But likes I saids earlier Chet...THEM guys is SO much smarter and better edjamacated than just us workin' stiffs(or in's what I sometimes hears, have kinfolk who's done passed down the leadership to 'em somewheres alongs the line), that THEY'S prob'ly DESERVES gettin' all that there money!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
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With rank, comes the perks. Politicos never vote themselves goodies, do they?
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
With rank, comes the perks. Politicos never vote themselves goodies, do they?
Well Ryk, I'm not SO dumb as to NOT know THAT, ya know!
(...I'm just pokin' a little fun at the part of our "culture" that says OR totally believes the following, "America: The Land of Meritocracy"...yep, as ANYONE with an IQ of over 100 should know, THAT was, is, and probably forever WILL BE nothin' but CLOSE to bein' a load of you-know-what...in other words, often the idea of "success" and/or "one's station in life" is based upon as much "luck" and "happenstance of birth" as it is in ALMOST any other industrialized country...though this MAY BE "news" to all the "America Exceptionalists" around here...though REMEMBER I said, "almost" there...yep, STILL glad I was born and bred in the good ol' U.S. of A. THAN anywhere ELSE, mind you!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 348
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 348 |
Quote:
With rank, comes the perks. Politicos never vote themselves goodies, do they?
This is correct but with rank ALSO comes responsibility. Something that Ford understood very well and what did it do for him...it generated wealth for him both in the short and long term. Perhaps a good start, as simple and naive as this might sound, is to start emphasizing ethics and civics back into schools curriculums because this 'all for me especially at the expense of you' mentality is NOT doing anything for the country as a whole. Politicians take a bath at voting, which we have just seen, if they go too far to one side or the other and CEOs/business owners loose their customers or business as a whole if they develop the Genghis Kahn mentality. Let Hostess flounder because a responsible and well ran business will see the demand in the products and that will draw them in. He11, I think the most ironic thing is that we are on a forum that is a perfect example of this debate going on...Triumph. For years, the Co-op at Meriden struggle to the point that laborers weren't even getting paid trying to make a go of the company (how is that for company loyalty and love of product?!). Why was it like that? Partly because for over 20 years, management wasn't listening to labor who were begging to update their infrastructure. They were building Bonnies in 1976 with machinery made back in 1950 and the Japanese capitalized on that weakness and ran with it. Now shoot forward and look at what John Bloor has done with the company...state of the line infrastructures where the logistical controls of inventory is guarded closely to control overhead expenditures. Now there is a labor force that is in high demand to work at Hinkley where they run a lottery system to hire. No one expects a laborer to live better than the boss but the greed is over the top. You don't pull in 2.5 million a year when you are in bankruptcy court and you are proposing to lay off 18,000 jobs on a product that is in high demand. That is simply irresponsible anyway you bake it!
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Quote:
I've been boycotting wally world for a very long time. Ian used to think it was funny when I would talk about it but now he sees the truth.
No I still think it's funny. They don't even know you aren't there. Just my store alone profits over $150,000,000 a year. I find the few that boycott funny.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Well the politicos in my humble little union "THE CARPENTERS" are not at all bashful of feathering their nests. Every gain I have ever gotten included a good % that goes right back to union itself. We get to vote on nothing, cutbacks for the membership abound, except for made officials. Now for a little truth, almost all the main unions in the United States originated with the 7 Mafia families, the Carps belong as of now, to what was the Gotti family. I belong, I am in good standing, but unions are what they are. If your lucky, you are in the leadership, and if not, you take what comes. I have no use for any or either side anymore, as they are all basically in cahoots and have outlived their usefulness. Being anti capitalist/business and promoting this phony class warfare shtick are their worst sins, IMO. The millwright trade is a true bellweather of our economy and I know who came to power when the work faded away, I will not name names here, but the true date of the beginning of our now faltering state of affairs, was on or about Jan 1st, 2007, so ask yourself, what is the significance of that date?
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Boycotting is a matter of principle, they may not know that I'm not there but I do. And the businesses that I patronize do know that I'm there
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
In the Operating Engineers, we vote on everything and the members DO have a voice.
And with the contracts that we have, I don't mind at all paying the talented people who negotiate them.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
I am not a fan of Wal Mart either, nor have i ever been but I can't afford not to shop there since I save so much money by doing so.I get the normally low prices plus my employee discount. I just compared coffee by accident.I forgot to get it at Wal Mart when I cashed my pay so figured I would just pick it up at Weis , where my bank is. It was $12 there and $7 at Wal Mart, same brand, same blend, and same size can. Then I get my discount on top of that.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580 |
Quote:
always spelled/"spelt" it!
So swopping an 'l' for a 't' makes 'ed' superfluous 
Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
Quote:
Now for a little truth, almost all the main unions in the United States originated with the 7 Mafia families, the Carps belong as of now, to what was the Gotti family.
While that's pretty amusing you might wanna do a little refresher course in US History.
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Trumpteer Much of what you say is true, but you forget to ask where Triumph was getting their capital and the effects of post WWII British industrial planning and nationalization. Many on the floor wanted to update technologies in production, management didn't? Cash isn't free. Would those workers & their union agree to letting half Triumph's work force go to modernize the plant to Japanese equivalents. If they did it would be the first the in history.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Twinkies
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
I've been boycotting wally world for a very long time. Ian used to think it was funny when I would talk about it but now he sees the truth.
these folks have been taking up the slack in your absence.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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