 I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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OP
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Ok, I just don't understand. Why is it that there are people (and certain clubs that shall remain nameless) hate cruisers and especially Triumph cruisers like our Speedmasters and Americas (although I have overheard them talk nice about the Rocket III). I really do not understand it. What is it about our bikes that seems to really get them riled up with hate for the these bikes?
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Basic human psychology. Them and us. Just like us or different. It takes a higher order of thinking to appreciate differences, either between people or self expression and artistic value. People are inherently herd/social animals. Ever drive through a new housing developement and see 100 houses, mostly alike? Lots of people find comfort in being like everybody else. Then have somebody paint their door orange and see the fur fly. I think that's why Triumph riders are a good bunch of people in general. We are a combination of "individualistic" types who are advanced enough socially and intellectually and that makes us good natured. At least I know I AM! 
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
C'mon now, Soren. I know you know the answer to this, as we've all discussed this many a time around here over the years.
However, to recap this once again, I'm thinking there's probably TWO answers here.
First, there are many a Britbike owner who will associate all "Cruisers" with large lumbering Harley-Davidsons, which were always in a manner of speaking the complete antithesis of a lighter-weight and better handling British motorcycle. And this point does not even include the idea of a separate "sub-culture" of these different riders, which often includes their attire AND often even the manner they present themselves to the world.
And secondly, because specifically in Triumph's long history of manufacturing motorcycles, it wasn't until 2002 that Triumph even offered a "Cruiser", and thus to the many of Triumph "Traditionalists" out there, building a "Crusier" is "sacrilege" in their eyes, as once again, Triumph had no history in making this type of M/C until '02 and when it seemed as if they were "jumping of the Cruiser bandwagon" which was all the rage around that time and when H-D dealerships had waiting lists to purchase their bikes.
Now, regarding the R3 thing...my guess would be that the only reason any Triumph "Traditionalist" might appreciated those is that they can boast that their favorite brand makes the biggest and baddest mass-produced motorcycle on the planet, and EVEN THOUGH that might be the last motorcycle on the planet that they'd ever consider owning.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,160
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,160 |
the only probablems I have had in my area is the younger people. most of the old guys grew up on triumphs and have a respect for them all. The young "club" guys have know clue.
Life need a little Triumph!
2008 Triumph Speedmaster, Single baffle drag pipes, lots of black powder coatin,K&N pods, AI removed, TBS needles and a procom cdi.
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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OP
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
First, there are many a Britbike owner who will associate all "Cruisers" with large lumbering Harley-Davidsons, which were always in a manner of speaking the complete antithesis of a lighter-weight and better handling British motorcycle.
That part I am going to disagree with you on. From about the late 20's until the early 50's they were all cruisers. Especially the 1937 Speed Twin.
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Sorry Soren, but NOW I'm gonna disagree right back. The "Speed Twin" was NAMED the "Speed" Twin NOT because of any ability to "cruise" around on, BUT because it was one of THE hottest "roadburners" or "sporting" motorcycles of its era. AND, in fact, continured to remain so through ALL its many permuations from the early '50s Thunderbirds, to the later '50s Tigers, and even through to the Bonneville models. Nope, Edward Turner's basic design philosophy for all his Vertical-Twins was NOT to make some kind of "American-styled Cruiser such as the Harley Knucklehead of Indian Chiefs of the time, but WAS to make as light and maneuverable and powerful a motorcycle as he could, and once again which IS the very antithesis of an American "Cruiser", even though that term of course hadn't been coined yet. And besides, when did Triumph EVER in its long history make a motorcycle with standard forward foot controls(I'm talkin' WAY OUT forward like which come on BAs) until they came out with the BAs in '02? And, I don't think I need to remind you that that riding position is more conducive to "cruising" than it is riding in a more "sporting" manner. (...and btw the very reason I've moved my foot controls back to the more "standard" position on my BA...yep, they're NOW right where they were on a 1937 Speed Twin, in fact!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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OP
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Ok fine. I'll let you have this one.  But, either way they were not standard Bonneville style bikes. And you gotta admit, besides the forward pegs, there are a lot of design similarities between the Speedmaster and the '37 Speed Twin.
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Once again Soren, the Speed Twin WAS the "Bonneville" of its day. It just took a few years for the frame technology(i.e. the swing-arm rear suspension, primarily) to evolve. And, I think the ONLY reason you might think that there's some "similarity" between the Speed Twin and the Speedmaster would be that they're both Vertical-Twin engined motorcycles, AND maybe because the slopping down of the frame rails aft of the gas tank on both bikes. BUT remember the ONLY reason for the Speed Twin to have that would be because of its rigid frame which was the norm on machines of that vintage and years before the swing-arm rear frame would become standard. And the ONLY reason the BAs and Speedies have this slopping down frame is to make the seat lower...which all "good Cruisers" should evidently feature in order for its operator to "look cool" while riding it!!! 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Well, as I always say when some young feller says to me why don't you get a Harley, "When they make a good one, I'll concider it".
When they brag about their sport bike. I say, "lets ride to Austin have lunch and come back". They never want to go that far in one day for some reason. Its only 8 hour of riding in one day, and with a lunch break in the middle.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Yeah. This one goes to Dwight.  
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
So Bill, I take it you're somehow attempting to make the point that ALL one needs to do to make that early Speed Twin up there a "Cruiser", would be to replace that sprung seat on it with a Gunfighter seat and VIOLA...you've got yourself a "Cruiser", HUH?! (...good try, but you'd have to move the foot controls WAY forward AND you'd have to kickout the forks some too, AND don't forget to put a REALLY wide tire on the back TOO!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
No Dwight. I SAID "this one goes to Dwight". meaning that I feel that you won the argument and the pictures prove it
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
AND, btw IF you HAD one of those old beauties AND if you DID do somethin' like that to it...I'd lose a whole lot o' respect fot ya, ol' buddy!  (...and so, in THIS regard, I guess you could call me one of those "Triumph Traditionalists" I referred to up above there!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
No Dwight. I SAID "this one goes to Dwight". meaning that I feel that you won the argument and the pictures prove it
Oh, sorry Bill. I guess I mistook that little smirk smiley as your way of sayin' you DISagreed with me.
(...I should have known better, huh...I mean I've known for YEARS that ANYONE as intelligent as YOU would ALWAYS see that I'M seldom if EVER possessed of an opinion that isn't absolutely "correct"!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
Ok, I just don't understand. Why is it that there are people (and certain clubs that shall remain nameless) hate cruisers and especially Triumph cruisers like our Speedmasters and Americas (although I have overheard them talk nice about the Rocket III). I really do not understand it. What is it about our bikes that seems to really get them riled up with hate for the these bikes?
They hate Americas and Speedmasters for one simple reason. It is embarrassing to have such a hard time to keep up with a laid back, thumping, low (relatively) RPM twin. Especially on a winding road where they should be quicker.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Quote:
No Dwight. I SAID "this one goes to Dwight". meaning that I feel that you won the argument and the pictures prove it
Oh, sorry Bill. I guess I mistook that little smirk smiley as your way of sayin' you DISagreed with me.
(...I should have known better, huh...I mean I've known for YEARS that ANYONE as intelligent as YOU would ALWAYS see that I'M seldom if EVER possessed of an opinion that isn't absolutely "correct"!)
Uh huh. Sure. That's why I had to point it out.
(And guess what the smirk is for THIS time)
Note that I used Dwightish to be sure you got it
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,669
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,669 |
I believe the smirk is for the fact that Dwight is a huge Smart A$$!
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Yeah, after several years now, I'm JUST STARTIN' to come around to the idea of the "Smart" part being true. 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580 |
Quote:
Ok, I just don't understand. Why is it that there are people (and certain clubs that shall remain nameless) hate cruisers and especially Triumph cruisers like our Speedmasters and Americas (although I have overheard them talk nice about the Rocket III). I really do not understand it. What is it about our bikes that seems to really get them riled up with hate for the these bikes?
Nobody, but nobody who isn't in the know, can get their head around the concept of a sports cruiser.
And what people can't understand, they slag off
Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61 |
I had this argument with a few when I first joined this site and seemed most thought our bikes and the Speedtwin were almost the same bike and superimopsed a pic of one over the other. Only similarities I see are 2 wheels and a vertical twin engine.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580 |
Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22 |
I don't know why they have to remain nameless. They hate our bikes and won't let us join with them.
They decided the 270 crank and the pandering to the laid back forward control crowd was disloyal to all that Triumph stood for.
IMHO Triumph stood for not upgrading its technology and falling behind the engineering curve causing the company to fail. Thank goodness for Mr. Bloor.
You can't join the Corvette club with your Camaro either. I don't really care to join them and their opinion is incidental to me.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,647
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,647 |
06 America 904
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
You can't join the Corvette club with your Camaro either. I don't really care to join them and their opinion is incidental to me.
Perfect analogy Ron. And sentiment too 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026 |
Who cares? Its their club, their rules, so what? You want to join up, buy a bike that fits their criteria. Why is that so hard to accept?
I also agree, the Speed Twin and Speedmaster aren't close really.
Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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OP
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
I don't care about their club or who they will allow in or not. That's not the point. The point is the blatant disdain for cruisers.
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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OP
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
These are the same people that don't have a problem with the sport bikes (Speed Triple, Daytona, etc) or the adventure bikes (the Tigers), but they seem to absolutely hate cruisers, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning (if there is any).
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
I think the general consensus here is:
Why should anyone give a rat's ass what someone else thinks about someone else's choice of bike?
It's human nature to hate something or someone for the sheer sake of having something or someone to hate.
And Harleys suck!
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 728 Likes: 1
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 728 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
These are the same people that don't have a problem with the sport bikes (Speed Triple, Daytona, etc) or the adventure bikes (the Tigers), but they seem to absolutely hate cruisers, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning (if there is any).
People make choices to be friendly or not, when AmyLee and I we're at the Cambria event the unfriendliness was there in small amounts but the overall feeling was good. The ones that are our friends, are because they've meet us and except us for who we are, not what we ride. We ride to have a good time and enjoy the camaraderie of fellow riders, no matter what you ride. 
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
I think they believe that our bikes are mostly just compromised and stylized Bonnies. To some degree they are right.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
I suspect that the haters regard themselves as purists for British bikes but there is little rational support for that because modern motorcycle developments used in modern Triumphs can hardly be called exclusively British.
But I think that Triumph can carry some of the blame as well because while the BA and SM account for a significant percentage of their sales they give them very little marketing support and hardly ever mention them in their own magazine. The exception is the Rocket as has already been mentioned, is proudly touted by all as the muscle of the bike world.
The more humble BA (now regarded by Triumph as entry level) is the best of both worlds. This seems lost on Triumph and on anyone who hasnt ridden our bikes. Nimble unlike other cruisers - even gainst the T bird and R3 - and comfortable and laid back with enough power to have an aggressive sporting attitude ... It's just right. And I don't want to change it. So that's why Triumph are trying to get me to 'trade up', because if they won't get another sale from me any other way. This bike should be my last and I'm very happy with that.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22 |
Soren, we have a lot of new people here that don't remember the big insults from years ago. Comon, say the name so they can hate them back.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Not sure what that means, I've been here since the winter of 03.  Maybe Brit Iron Rebels? They at one time allowed Am/Speedies, before Triumph reclassified and segregated them from Bonnies.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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OP
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Maybe Brit Iron Rebels? They at one time allowed Am/Speedies, before Triumph reclassified and segregated them from Bonnies.
The B.I.R. and the Ton-Up have never allowed us in. But, like I said before, that's not the point.
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Bonnie variants and Am/Speedies are the intro Triumphs by today's standards. But, from my point of view they aren't small, I started riding a Bonnie on the street in 1965. A 650 was a huge bike, but you could still throw it around. Now we think of a 800 or 900 as small. I grew up with the prejudice that big HDs were for old men, cops and meter maids. I don't believe Triumph waste their advertising dollars on our bikes because the bikes don't have the mark up and they sell themselves. Very smart, Triumph is right, just think of all the people that are unaware our bikes exist, but we all have to wade through a crowd to get to our bike on bike night. We are the advertising, damn we are cool. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe Brit Iron Rebels? They at one time allowed Am/Speedies, before Triumph reclassified and segregated them from Bonnies.
The B.I.R. and the Ton-Up have never allowed us in. But, like I said before, that's not the point.
Maybe I missed your point, what is it?
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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OP
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe Brit Iron Rebels? They at one time allowed Am/Speedies, before Triumph reclassified and segregated them from Bonnies.
The B.I.R. and the Ton-Up have never allowed us in. But, like I said before, that's not the point.
Maybe I missed your point, what is it?
The question is why do they hate cruisers? What is it that turns them off so much to the point of hating them.
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Read my post above to explain many old schoolers prejudice about big cruisers. Because like I stated earlier, the Am/Speedie are compromised for styling points. Our bikes aren't the legacy bikes of the original Bonnies. BIR feels the new Bonnie variants are. They do have a point. Let's get three riders from here, with three different riding skill levels, we will have them ride a course. They'll each ride every bike through the course once, each ride will be filmed. The bikes will be stock bikes: 69 Bonnie, 04 Am/Speedie, 04 Bonnie and 04 Thruxton. Which modern bike or bikes will most mimic the 68? Don't get me wrong I love my 03 America, especially on a slab, but it won't do what the 04 T-100 will and neither will do what a 04 Thruxton will. I'd own a big T-Bird, but I hate what they did to the bottom of the tank and Dwight doesn't approve of the lack of tasteful fins.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22 |
I forgot about Ton-up I thought you only meant B.I.R.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: I don't Get It
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
I saw a bunch of clowns from the BIR in a bar once. They reminded me of the Brit bike version of Harley pirates.  Why would you want to be part of the BIR or any other club that doesn't welcome you? If you're riding a Triumph cruiser, be happy in your own skin that you're riding a machine YOU like. 
Last edited by Speedmaster05; 08/26/2012 9:54 PM.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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