Bonneville America Forums Forums Rider Safety Forums Riding Technique explanation of why counter steer works as it does?

Years ago when I rode a Yamaha Cross Country Sport 305 on the road and in recent years of trail riding dirt bikes I don't remember ever being aware of counter steer or using it: I just leaned in the direction of the turn. But after a friend told me to try counter steering on my America I was amazed at how quickly the America starts to lean and turns toward the side on which you push the bars and what little pressure it takes. The whole idea seems counter intuitive - to push forward on the right grip to go right - but it certainly works.

So....Does anyone have a simple explanation of the mechanics involved? I assumed it had something to do with moving the front tire contact patch off the line of travel, but the effect is so immediate and so strong that it doesn't seem the contact patch could be shifted so quickly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

Most cycle safety courses will teach and explain this method, it's sometimes referred to as "Push/Pull".

when you turn to the right, you push the right grip and as the bike leans to the right the contact patch on the tire moves to the right of the centerline of the tire. As this happens the radius from the wheel spindle to the ground gets smaller (because the tire is radius'd and not flat like a car).the tire diameter has in effect become smaller and offers less resistance. hopefully this makes sense to you. as it's not easy to explain it. car tires being flat across the tread can't lean and make the contact patch move left or right of the centerline like a bike can Des.

I explain in a different way (dyslexia perhaps). Pull on the right to go left and visa versa, especially evident at high speed cornering. But with our wide bars it's quite obvious to me that there's a definite opposite pull while cornering hard, albeit ever so intuitive. And like you, back in the day I was not even aware of something called, "counter steering." But now that it's a well used phrase in the motorcycling community, it does actually make sense.

I think of it like this: If you're going straight, and you push right, the front tire wants to go out from under you (and the CG) to the left and tip the bike to the right, hence the lean. And then as you lean, all that tire radius stuff comes into play, plus your bars tend to flop back to the right once leaned, and you turn. That's the official explaination from an engineer

If any of you is watching speedway then u can see counter steer in pure version

And HERE I THOUGHT it just ALL CAME NATURALLY !!!

I can turn left & right, and never had a course on steering since my dad let go of the back of my bike at 3 years of age.

IS there ANY OTHER WAY to turn !??

(and YES, when you go as fast on your pedal bike as I did @ 3 yr's, IT IS THE SAME AS MOTORCYCLES! )

I always think of it as kicking one leg out of a tripod, that naturally leans the bike into the turn and then you input steering changes to maintain the line.

This has to do with an effect called gyroscopic precession. A spinning gyroscope will act as if any pressure applied to it's rim occurred 90 degrees around it's rotation.
So, pushing on the right handlebar puts pressure to the right (from the left) at the rear of the wheel and to the right at the front. Moving 90 degrees around the rotation of the wheel, tips the top to the right and the bottom to the left, leaning the bike to the right. The weight shift caused by the bike leaning causes pressure on the right side of the bottom of the wheel. Moving around another 90 degrees, this pressure causes the wheel to turn into the lean, so the bike makes a balanced turn to the right.

If you're driving you car and turn one direction you will feel centrifugal force move you in the opposite direction.

Same thing on a bike; you turn left, centrifugal force exerts right. The bike, being balanced on two wheels leans right and moves that direction. It doesn't take much of a counter-steer to effect that movement and once you're leaned, more counter-steer leans you further.

It doesn't work at low speeds due to the lack of gyroscopic effect to which Greybeard referred.

Hey! How exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does a sun set? How exactly does a posi-trac rear-end on a Plymouth work? It just does.

(JOE DIRT'S DAD)

Plymouth didn't have posi-trac. That was a GM term. The Plymouth would have had a "sure-grip", and Ford, a "trac-lok".

No Matt, YOUR correct.

ANY real White Trash would KNOW that ALL limited slip differentials were called "Posi-Trac"

You MUST consider the source of the reference.

Good point erle.
And in context it fits too.

On this site, with the RARE exception of one or two, I find comfort knowing I'm in good company!

(Ian, plenty of examples to follow)

It does, doesn't it!

Now Mr Erle, you weren't implying anything were you?

ME!?

Naaa...

I don't think we have any White Trash around these parts, our machines are a bit tOo classy for that, maybe a few rednecks and country boys (myself included). Maybe you meant DWIGHT Trash. J/K

There is a very nice article about counter steering in this month's ( July ) Motorcycle Consumer News. I ready and thought and read and thought on and off for years. Never got it until now, after reading that article and riding my bicycle today.

Did you try to countersteer Grace?