Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech Motor Locked UP

I have a 2002 Bonnie America and I finally got to a point in life that I could put on all those wonderful after market bells and whistles on her, only to try and crank her up two weeks ago and all she did was sputter then click. So I began the task for figuring out what the hell happened, electrical good, starter good With the basic checks done and after trearing her motor almost all the way apart I found that the smaller of the two PLASTIC freaking oil pump gears had exploded. I prayed that this was the main and only cause of her not wanting to start. But to cover all my bases and since the clucth and gear out I cannot manually turn the motor over, I have now reached my mechanical limits and have no clue where to turn. Can anyone give an opinion or help? I live in Richmond, VA. and now have to begin the massive search for a mechanic that can handle such an undertaking. WTF, I feel like, I lost my best dog..

Buy you a motor from a wrecked bike on EBay from Pinwall, make sure the front motor mounting holes on the lower front of the engine case are still intact. I have seen fairly low mileage motors go for around $900 plus shipping. Bolt it up and ride another 10 years.

You really ought to get it checked out by a tech..

Could anyone guesstimate what a rebuild could cost?

I would buy a used engine from Pinwall on Ebay. Read the ad carefully as they will sell anything and don't do returns. they are honest and list flaws and give plenty if pictures in most cases so read carefully. Complete rebuild could run in the thousands if it seized due to oil pressure. Crank scored? Cam journals scored? (new head needed?)pistons scored and cyl. walls scored? Trans is lubed by the oil pump too.

I agree with Chy, have an experienced mechanic look at it but lack of oil due to a bad pump could do more damage than is worth fixing if a replacement engine can be had.

My real issue is finding the experienced tech, I was looking around and the only Triumph dealer in the area is a hundred and fifty miles away. but thanks for all the input I really appreciate it guys..

OK this may sound dumb, but I have never really used ebay. So I was searching through but cannot find Pinwall. Can any of you guys point me in the right direction?

Did you pull the plugs and try to turn just the engine by the crank. Pull the stator cover off and try that. You could lift the bike and put the trans in 5th and try to turn it by the rear wheel but that won't narrow it down between engine and trans. If you turn by the crank be sure the clutch is disengaged.

Could you tell us how the bike ran the last trip out? Any funny noises? Power ok? Overheat? When was the last oil change? Did the bike backfire on startup?

Find it hard to believe that the oil pump gears would simply break. If your engine backfired on startup, it is possible for the gear to fail (hopefully not due to a case idler gear/bushing failure). I can only imagine the gear exploding if something entered the inlet side of the pump. I hope nothing was dropped into the engine recently? Was the valve cover off recently? Oil change done? Grasping at straws here.

If the pump failed while driving, then everything Ian mentioned might have happened.

Ok, here is everything I know to tell you guys. The oil was changed this time last spring, I had been a neglectful biker for the last year and as a result she sat for a year only getting moved a couple of times, ridden only once or twice of those. The most recent was a month ago, to stretch her legs right before I began to break her down for maintence and parts addition, she sputtered and backfired once or twice in the beginning once I got her going (although I did give her some time to warm up before going out). Then three weeks ago I went to start her up and she spudder on the start, died and then all she would do was click. So when we started to break her down carbs first, they were clean just a little build up but in generally great condition, same with the head, valves, and alternator area. When we drained her oil down and removed the starter, we tested the starter and it turned just fine. After that we opened the clutch housing and found the smaller of the two plstic oil pump gears had exploded and a piece was wedged between the cam gear and the clutch gear. At that point I thought we had found what had seized up the everything, but we we got the clutch and gearing out, I tried to free spin the motor using the 10mm allen in the alternator section, like the book told me to and she would not budge. I know that I am an inexperienced mechanic but so far I have been able to do all the maintence, this is completely out of my league. Thanks for all the assistance you guys provide.

Yes, absolutely they were removed..

So I decided after a thorough cost analysis that a used motor is the way to go. I found a 2003 with almost the same mileage as mine. Day one of breaking down the bike to begin the engine replacement is underway. We are now beginning the removal of the original damaged motor as our focus of day 1.
I will post regular updates. hope you enjoy the pics.

Bike rebuild pics

Your link took me to a page that says content currently unavailable.

Sorry about that here is a better one.. Will use it from now on.. 2002 Bonnie America Motor replacement 2012

Day 2 is down and the motor is out. she looks pityfull, not even a skeleton. taking the time to clean her up real good though. Anyway here are the day two pics..

Day 2 Bike rebuild 2012

I noticed the oil filter is still attached to the engine. If you have the time, remove it and cut it open to see if there is any metal inside. Good indicator as to what failed.

Of course, you can pull the old engine apart also. Thanks for the pics.

Post deleted by Bill

I agree Bill. I'd of pulled the sump to look for chunks and the valve cover to check the cam bearings for oil starvation. I know of one other fellow who lost the oil filter and the engine ran out of oil. He filled the engine up and it ran with no problems. Can't remember when.

Tim, did you verify that the engine was indeed damaged? Was the oil pump the only thing that failed? I realize you have another engine going in but there are a lot of salvagable parts that can be sold. Cylinders as exchange units. Crankcase housing should be good if the main bearings didn't spin in the housing. If the cam bearings aren't bad, the head can be sold. Cams can also be sold. You might be able to recoup the cost of the engine but.....why and did it fail???

I think he has pretty much established the motor is seized and is moving forward with an 03 motor.

Maybe rebuilding the 02 can become a hobby of sorts. At least it will be back on the road faster.

To answer you all the motor oil was burnt slam up and yes the motor is seized up tighter than a ticks ass. I put some ass behind it when trying to rotate it with the plugs out and it would not budge.
yesterday and today we made some good progress with getting the new motor preped and installed. Now some reassembly is starting. here are the pics. 2002 rebuild days 3 and 4 April 29, 2012

Cheers,
Tim

Thanks for the update Tim. Don't take any offence from us guys....just trying to help.

Appreciate the pics.

Absolutely no offense taken, guys..
Here are the update pics for day 5 of the rebuild.
Day 5 progress..

Okay so the bike is offically running and I have posted a video clip and some pics for your viewing pleasure. In the video it intially sounds as if she is only running one cylinder and you would be right. I found the air leak and she is running properly now, the vid is just proof she lives.. Bike rebuild 2012
Now I have a question for the forum. Does anyone have the norman hyde "high flow air intake bell mouth on their bike? If so what size jets did you use? I put the 120's in that was originally suggested when I ordered then from newspeedmaster.com and the pipes said no change required, and when I open the throttle up about half way she looses some power, but she is idling just fine. I put the stock breather back in and the problem goes away. wtf, does anyone have any ideas here?
thanks in advance for all the help...

You have a midrange flat spot for sure. I have the Polaris version of that bellmouth. And I had to shim the main jet needles as well as up the mains.

790 D&D's 130/45 2.25 turns, TBS needles, 1 shim. If you use the oem needles you may need two shims.

You are running too lean. Mine would bog down with TORS and the snorkels removed with 125 mains. Had to put the snorkels back in until I could rejet. I added 2 shims to my stock needles and gradually went to 135 mains. I also switched to TBS needles and got rid of the shims. My plug colour is just turning tan. Bike runs great and is probably a tad rich. I think a 132 main would probably work better.

Instead of using a bellmouth, I took the plastic air filter retainer that is held in place with the 3 bolts and opened it up 1/2 inch all around bevelling the intake. The snorkel no longer fits but that also improved airflow and performance.