Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech Oil cooler delete.

Yep, I know what your sayin' , but my other bikes also have the cam chain, and they didn't come with an oil cooler. DON'T GET ME WRONG, I AGREE IT MUST HELP, but, well hell, I don't know.

I need to call the tech. that Ken sent me the phone number to, and see what kind of riding he does, what FACTS we knows, etc. Lets face it, he's DONE IT!, not speculating.

Make NO MISTAKE, I APPRECIATE ALL OF YA'LLS opinions, this has been a "point-counterpoint" type debate, and that's EXACTLY what I wanted!

One main point made was that, like a radiator, the oil cooler NEEDS airflow to work , and at idle, or in stop-and-go traffic, it's close to useless. And at speeds, you shouldn't need it? The only benefit at a stop, and yes, it would still be a benefit, would come from the extra oil capacity? But again, the MAJORITY of ALL other air cooled motors from ALL types of manufacturers, DON'T seem to find one necessary. (but, it STILL has to help!)

Bet it would be a very big improvement if there was an electric FAN mounted behind the cooler, pulling air through when stopped, and blowing air on the cylinders when stopped! What ya say, Triumph engineers?!

I guess what I DON'T like is it's ugly looks, and it's location. Restricting air from hitting the absolute HOTTEST part of the engine, the front of the cylinders on the exhaust side. Like putting a piece of cardboard in front of the motor. It blocks the view, and hampers cleaning,of my BEAUTIFUL chrome tube.

I'm just thinking ALL of the pros and cons are too trivial to matter. A little less oil cooling, but a little better engine cooling (from increased air flow), especially on the cylinders.

Since my fuel filter sales have been brisk lately, I am definitely going to make the oil gauge set-up as discussed elsewhere here, I want it anyway, and I can do some experimenting with temp. data, including the Daytona Bike (torture) rally rides! That will include waiting in bumper to bumper traffic, waiting through 3-5 traffic light changes to get threw the intersections, in blistering sunlight, air temps in the 90's, and asphalt temps. around 140+

Most likely, if I record ANY REAL benefit in engine temps, I will search and find a better looking cooler (like the ones some on here have), that are mounted in a MUCH better location (like the ones some on here have)

IF I DON'T find more than, oh, lets say 5 -10 degrees under the WORST of conditions, I'll probably spend the money elsewhere, and put the cooler in the attic, till we're ready to sell the bike.

Again, THANKS for ALL of ya'lls thoughts!

(and KEEP them commin')

peace.

Personally I like function over form, to a point (heck, I bought a Rocket III and that really isn't a pretty bike--but that's not why I bought it). But I prefer when design and functionality are synthesized together for an elegant solution.

I would probably never run without SOME kind of oil cooling. I agree the stock cooler is ugly but like most I "tune it out" when looking at the bike. That said, I like the downtube-style oil coolers but I could never buy one from BP. I'm actually fairly intrigued by the Streetmaster solution of plumbing the frame downtubes, particularly because (they claim) it actually works better than stock (function AND form--elegant).

But overall I just don't care, at least not until I make a show-only bike out of one of them.

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The only benefit at a stop, and yes, it would still be a benefit, would come from the extra oil capacity?

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Or the fact that the cooler and lines are made of lighter metal that allows the oil a place to cool a bit before returning to the engine.

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One main point made was that, like a radiator, the oil cooler NEEDS airflow to work

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and no... a radiator (oil cooler) does NOT need airflow to work,only to work better. That's why it, like our cylinder heads,have fins.radiators

my 2 cents.. again.

I believe the whole idea behind fins is not airflow but increased surface area.

One more note about "The more oil, the better", here...

I know on my Spyder I have a deeper and finned oil pan which holds about 1 quart more oil than it would if I didn't have that particular CB Performance high-volume oil pan on the car, and I know I'm certainly glad to have that bolted on the engine down there. And, I'll betcha it probably cools the oil by 10-20 degrees F over what a shallower pan would.

Higher oil temps will break down your oil more quickly so, shorter times between changes may get you by. I'd be sure of the path of oil flow before just pluging off the ports in the head. Your engine will most likely not live as long without an oil cooler. But your experiment may prove how long. And then we'll know.

CB Performance! That's a name I haven't heard in a LOOOOOOONG time. Good old Claude's Buggies.

Hey Mr. Erle... you were one of the guys who advised me to consider function over form when I talked about lowering my bike. I love the look of our bikes sitting lower but, well... you know the rest. So, maybe you'll end up applying some o' that good ol' southern wisdom to your oil cooler idea.

PS. I'll be sure to post some pics of my bike once its lowered!

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I'll be sure to post some pics of my bike once its lowered!

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Lowering? wheres jaymo? ... he will have some input on that one.

Here's what I do know, this from the guys at Streetmaster about the oil in frame kit.

"They fit the modern classics (Bonneville and Thruxton)"
"Price is $849 and you get a $200 core exchange credit when you return your current cradle assemblies"

I bought two (L&R) replacement front lower frame pieces from Pinwall $14.98 each, plus the shipping. I'm gathering up the parts to do this mod now. Down to finding the appropriate lower hoses/fittings and weld in bungs. I talked to the main guy at Streetmaster, last summer, told me that they wouldn't be doing our bikes, just Bonny s and Thruxtons. I do have a tig welder, but a buzzbox or a 110 volt wire drive would suffice. I will be doing a comprehensive flush, before I let it route oil into my motor, just because. This project should be doable for around $175 max for anybody, IMO

you should measure the capacity of the frame rails while your at it... it'd be nice to know how much those rails hold.

I cooked my pick up coil few years back in slow traffic on hot day ...now I'm careful and if needed having look on temp gauge. without cooler who knows could be even worse

Good idea Mr. Z, I'll try to get that done this weekend. I have a great big meas. cup that should do the trick. I'm no engineer, but I bet that extra volume will make this work or not.

Another option from the Streetmaster site...

http://www.streetmaster.net/streetmaster.html

Hell, I'm not worth a damn at this linking stuff. Go to Row 6. They've got their cooler mounted under the tank.

Now that's an idea... but that return has got to be one looooong piece of hose to get back to the sump. I like it..

TO EVERYONE !



I'm lookin' to just "relocate" the damn thing!!!

It would also keep your CDI nice and dry

Yeah, but it would heat your fuel too.

Relocating is an idea though, and since it's pressure fed you don't have to have it higher than the engine.

Maybe with an airbox removal and battery relocation, some place may open up.

Yea! I see that.

(I'll be LURKING in the shadows.)

after reading though this lively debate, I will throw in my thoughts.
My engine tends to run hot due to the higher compression, not dangerously hot, but definitely hotter than it did stock. (not an A/F issue either) And to that end I have been playing with various schemes of adding more oil cooling without adding something ugly to the bike. I have previously posted pix of some of my finned aluminum creations. They all help but in small increments.

I really like the idea presented in this thread of increased oil capacity. To that end, what about (for me adding) or just relocating the oil cooler to behind the transmission and the recitfier. There is plenty of room and air flow. For those with the stock airbox removed there is a lot of free space for a good sized cooler.

I have been kicking around getting one of those 'add on' automatic transmission coolers for cars (they are cheap) and mounting it up under the bike. There are already 2 welded on tabs from the frame there. Also thinking of adding a small fan to the cooler, for those times when you are stuck in road construction, which here is anytime it is not snowing!

I think adding a fan would increase the cooling capability of the cooler EXPONENTIALLY! (when slow or stopped)

And if mounted behind the cooler in it's current location, would ALSO add a breeze to cool the cylinders as well, Just like the fan in autos, that pull air through the radiator and trans. coolers, AND push air on the motor.

I was looking at the fan on my friends Buell. Something that wouldn't add too much current draw on the existing electrical system.

I mean, IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE IT, MAKE IT PERFORM !!!

I wouldn't want to delete my oil cooler, but have wondered if the cooler removed too much heat during the winter. Being one of those that doesn't have sense enough to come in out of the cold, I ride when the temps are ridiculously low and the heat loss from the fins and cooler may keep my oil a little thicker. It's just a thought because I don't have a oil temp gauge to check it with. Maybe someone with a temp gauge that rides in the c-cold can chime in.

In sub-freezing weather, with a "fully warmed" motor the oil temp on mine doesn't exceed 150F...in hottest weather in my parts (approaching 100F), it generally, does not exceed 200F...

Many Harley owners have used the stock engine guard as an additional oil reservoir. Tapping it with fittings allowing oil to circulate through it. No fins, but the added capacity helps a bunch. 12V computer fans have been used to pull air through aftermarket coolers (similar to Buell).
A thermostat would be helpful in my opinion. I used to block off the oil cooler I installed on my Roadking when outside air temps were below 70 degrees F.-tried to keep the oil in the 200 degree range on the temp gauge. Today's synthetic and semi-synthetic don't suffer breakdown until they stay at 275 plus for an extended period.
Frequent changing offsets this a bit.
I would not run without an oil cooling method.
Brighter folks than I designed and put it on the bike.

an option the HD guys have is a variety of aftermarket kits that place an adapter between the oil filter and engine case that diverts the filtered oil to a cooler and then back again to the engine. Some of these have thermostats, fans, and so on.
Space under our motors (where the oil filter resides) is tight but it might be possible to get something in there.
its got me thinking

If you want to go the filter route you might wan5t to look into something to make the filter remote. Like the fitting I have on my wrecker to run the filtered oil up through a cooler then back to the filter. Better yet one like the S-10 Blazers had that move the filter up to the rad support. Could move the filter to a safer location to boot, like maybe laying on it's side under the swing arm pivot. Now I'm thinking too!

I had NO intentions to make ANYBODY think!

I was thinking under the swing arm sort of where the center stand would mount or up a little higher like a later 850 Commando.

Remove the air box, and put it where that side cover that has America writen on it is. And put a fan on it.