Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech Bike Dies, then starts after a few minutes

Hi all,

Yesterday I went for a spin into the country but after 40k's my bike just died. I pulled over to the side of the road and looked for any obvious problems but after two minutes it started up again.

This isn't he first time this has happened btw but it's it's been so infrequent I haven't bothered to look for the problem.

Yesterday though instead of re-starting and keeping on going, it did it about 5 times. So it starts, I get on and take off but after about one or two k's, same thing happens, it just dies. No spluttering or any signs of life, nothing.

I would really appreciate any suggestions but before you do, I have either had recently replaced, fixed or checked the following:

I have just replaced the regualtor / recifier

- Just replaced the plugs

- the plug leads are good quality and replaced recently.

- I've taken the hidden fuel filter out and replaced with a cleanable type. Yesterday I took out the filter insert and blew through it to make sure it wasn't clogged.

- I have a breathable fuel cap.

- It was a fine day yesterday so the problem has nothing to do water etc

- All the squirrel condoms are top quality which I treat with rubber conditioner so they don't crack.

- Kill switch was checked

- Battery connections are good as I have a new battery.

So, has anyone go any ideas. Like I said, this problem has happened intermittently before which makes me think it is electrical such as the cdi or something.

I really would like this fixed cos now I don't trust taking my bike for a tour or even a spin for fear I'll be stuck on the side of the road again.

thanks heaps for any suggestions.

stacka

Just in case your vented gas cap isn't venting try riding for a bit with it cracked open a bit. Won't cost anything to try.

Ted

Hi Ted, I've already bought a breathable fuel cap Ted. Well I'm pretty sure it is cos I got caught out a few years back with the valve on the overflow tube seizing up and hence no fuel was getting to my carbies.

Actually, I remember once over filling my tank and it leaksed from my fuel cap. So that's not the problem unfortunately. Thanks for your suggestion though.

when that happened to me it was because I had crushed the overflow from the tank underneath it when remounting. but it sounds like you've been through that already. sorry I got nothin.

Yeah, thanks anyway Hasso. I wished it was that easy. I've been looking back over the other posts trying to find a thread with a similar situation but no luck yet.

I'm yet to get into the garage and go through a full check to make sure there is plenty of fuel getting through, but I've got a feeling it's more electrical.

Hopefully someone will see something obvious.

thanks again

I know it's a new battery but at least check your connections again

POOP! You've sure had your share of problems lately. The fact that it dies but will start again after a couple o' minutes does make one think it might be fuel related. You can open the drain plug on each carb to see if fuel pours out readily. Maybe rig up a way to catch the fuel and let it run for a couple of minutes. If there's any crap in the tank, it would draw said crap to the petcock filter. Which is another thing to check... the petcock filter.

I'd still do Ted's idea and run the bike with the cap open. Ya never know.

You're right guys, I'll do as you say and see what happens.

I'll let you know.

side stand switch?

Hi Stacka!

From your description it sounds like an electrical issue. As in "My bike just dies...No spluttering or any signs of life, nothing."

First thing I would look at is that three yellow wire plug under the saddle. Yes I read that you recently replace the regulator. But look at that plug again for any signs of arching.

I know your battery connections are recently torqued. Check them again especially the positive one!

Check the coil connections for tight connectors. Make sure the HT lead clicks on the spark plug and on the coil post properly. And also ensure the primary leads make a nice tight fit on their coil tabs. Might find the need to close up one or more of the connectors.

Chances are you have already done all of these things.

Hope you get things sorted soon!

Thanks Moe and everyone else of course. I really feel like I have some top blokes on my side to sort things out. I've got a brilliant stand so I'll take my tank and seat off and start from scratch. Thanks again

I'm hoping to check these suggestions tomorrow. Thanks again

* Dave - Check Battery Connections

* Keith - Open Carb Bowl plug and drain for two minutes - if probs check petcock filter

* Rev - Check side stand switch

* Moe - R/R plug connector, battery connections, coil connections tight, HT Spark Plug leads properly seated, Primary leads properly seated,

* Bryn - Side stand switch too.

Stacka,

Because the bike quits suddenly with no slow loss of power I'd say it was electrical.
You might want to check the ignition switch. We seen a few posts where the internals of the switch were failing. Also the switch connection could be loose. You might as well check any other connection/switch that is needed in the engine run circuit. Check your fuses to see if any aren't loose.

I surely would look at the clutch switch as a failure point, too, since it works in tandem with the side stand switch.

I found a fair amount of corrosion in my fuse box last autumn which surprised me since my bike is stored indoors, not climate controlled but on a concrete pad in a enclosed steel building. A bit cleaning with some contact cleaner and a new coating of dielectric grease and the results have been good, so far :-)

I'd second Moe's suggestions. Sounds exactly like the problem I had a couple of years ago. Check that connection. I missed the burnt off cables for weeks until my daughter one day when I was searching, pointed and said "Should that thingie look like that?"

Well, I sure have my work cut out for me don't I ha ha.

There is one thing i forget to mention which may be of value. Affter the fourth time when my bike started again, it didnt stop at all until i got home and I switched off my bike myself.

Ok, maybe that in itself isn't such a big deal but what I did find unusual was when I hooked my bike up to my cTek Battery charger, it always says my battery isn't fully topped up but this time it said it was. This has Never happened even once in my memory. The only thing that may have effected it was my replacing the blown head light globe (after my R/R blew it and the 30a positive wire's in line fuse).

Just more food for thought for my team of Sherlock Holmes' aspirants

This one is going to be interesting and I can't thank you all enough for your suggestions and interest. I've really missed this place and believe it or not, it's another reason I couldn't sell my speedy. Meaning I would miss this place too much.

Anyway, I wanted to have a look at my bike today but I have to return all my fire brigade gear cos I'm officially retired on the 15th. It's getting close now.
Stacka

Wiring diagram here somewhere 1 sec

Quote:

---

I'd imagine it's the clutch switch however.

---

I doubt it's the clutch switch, as this only stops the starter solenoid from engaging. Otherwise it would cut out whenever you changed gear. Same with the neutral switch

look at the diagram. It's all dependant on that pin on the ICU. (10) both circuits effect it's connection directly. Could it be the ICU itself at fault?

Apologies for the delay in my replying, been busy with other stuff. I haven't had time to go over my bike yet but tomorrow looks free. Also, because of all the suggestions, I'm going to have to take this one slow and with the help of my workshop manual learn what each suggestion means. From my experience electrical is time consuming, particularly as I like to have the wiring properly wrapped and tied.

So I just want to take one suggestion at a time, see if it looks good or not and then move on to the next.

Just one other clue which may or my not have something to do with things, I recently ripped out the data tool alarm and reconnected the wiring as best as I could. I'm pretty sure it's right cos there was no wiring left unused. Just a thought and not one I think is valid really.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I will get out the wiring diagram and start learning what does what, where it is and whether anything appears not right.

Finally, I was talking to a Vietnam Vet who's doing my claim due to my back and he said if my R/R had blown more than once, it more than likely was due to an arcing connection. He was fairly certain about it too. Mind you, he does have a Harley

It's going to be a corroded connection that's losing contact. Fuse box, kill switch, or side stand switch are the most obvious but I'd also inspect the ground wire from the battery to the frame. Why? Because that poor ground could be the culprit in the RR failures as well. Since the regulator works by draining the excess voltage to ground a dodgy connection could easily overheat the unit. Worth a close look.

Ok, another day and I haven't been able to even start looking at my bike.

Well I must admit I like the idea of finding a corroded ground has been giving me these issues. In saying this, whilst I'm not a genius on electrical stuff, I've been aware having good non corroded connections is pretty important. That's why I've applied dielectric grease on as many connections as I could so I wouldn't get these problems.

In saying that, I siliconed my side stand to try to prevent moisture attack and any problems and of course all my fuses have been individually cleaned and dialectric grease applied.

One spot I haven't touched, not even once is the battery's ground point on the frame. In fact I don't even know where it is. Wouldn't it be nice if after finding it, it was corroded and loose? Nah, it's too good to be true.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, from a while back it's been mentioned how important it's been to keep our electrical connections clean and treated with dielectric grease.

Anyway, I'll get onto it tmw so can hopefully put us out of our misery ha ha

Hi guys.

Checked over my bikes electrics today doing the following:

- Battery terminals cleaned and all associated wires also using wet and dry paper, then retightened. Remember Battery's a newie.

- Disconnected plug that's associated with the regulator/rectifier. Totally cleaned out terminals both male and female. Reconnected and pulled connection tight together using a zip tie.

- Went over all terminals and connections ensuring fittings were well seated i.e. HT leads both ends and any other connectors found.

- Checked all the fuses as I've done before and found no corrosion or problems.

It should be noted I've been quite fastidious in the past with all electrics, making sure there hasn't been any corrosion.

Btw, Ive always liked my wiring to be clean and tidy making sure no loose ends and zip tying them to be properly sorted.

I haven't as yet been able to undo the battery's main negative wire as I haven't worked out how to. If anyone can let me know a simple means of access I'd be interested to know. Why they needed to find such a hard place to put it I've got no idea. FYI, the connection looks tight and appears like it's never been undone.

- Checked over the bike stand switch which is working as it should. Btw, several years back I applied a layer of black electrical sealant over the entire switch mechanism to stop moisture entering. It's still in very good nick meaning I don't reckon there's any problems there.

Next I'll be undoing the float's drain plugs to see if it stops flowing.

There's probably some other stuff i did but it's way past my bed time. Tomorrow I'll go over more and then go for a spin and see what happens.

I'll report back later.

Stacka

-

Well guys, today I checked out the battery's negative terminal wire to see how it looked. Without actually unscrewing the bolt holding it to ground, all looks pretty good with no sign of anything untoward like corrosion or damage etc. I did try to undo the bolt but it's held tight so I left it as is thinking there's no real point in going any further.

I then checked out the fuel flow from the carb's and again couldn't find anything not right.

So with all the other stuff I mentioned in my last post, I don't know what more I can do to be honest. Anyway, after doing the checks, this arvo I started her up and took off for a zoom round where I live and she's running like a train. No sign of any probs compared to when she kept conking out the weekend before last so who knows.

I just wanted to mention one thing, when I first bought my bike back in 06 with her only having 6k (kilometres) on the clock, I remember going for a putt down to the local shops and like the other day, she just conked out. No reason for it that I could find,but now with 56k on the clock, it's been happening again.

To be perfectly honest, It's got me stuffed I can tell ya but I have to say it does make me think one of the major electrical components might be on the blink. What other reason could there be?

So if anyone's got a clue what's going on here I liked to hear about it cos I'd just prefer to know all is good with my red speedy with no issues when I'm riding in the back blocks of Oz. After all, I wouldn't want an angry boxing roo on my case now would I?

Thanks for listening and all your suggestions guys. As always I really appreciate it

stacka

With it not just losing one cylinder it seems like it must be something in the kill circuit. That side stand switch is so vulnerable I'd be tempted just to bypass it altogether and see how things go. Not a great answer right when your riding season is the best but it's all I got.

Hey Stacka,

I agree with the lads in that it is almost definitely electrical. When I first read the fault description I thought It sounded like you could have a "dry joint" in the system. When the bike heats up you develop an open circuit somewhere and the bike dies, when it cools a little it fires up again because the break in the circuit closes. Doesn't help identify the problem though.

The other thought that ran through my mind is that sometimes "siliconing" a component/switch will encourage condensation inside the switch. And with all of the wet weather we have been having on the Eastern Side it may be an issue.

Alternatively, it's a case of the Gremlins and nothing short of an exorcism will sort it!

Not terribly helpful, just my AUS $0.02 worth.

On another note, it must almost be time to start thinking about Ozbam again........

my bike would die and blow a fuse. Put new fuse in go a ways and it would die. After about 60 fuses, someone on here said look at speedometer wire.
when I did, a spark shows in headite. took bezel off and found a wire with a bare spot that would hit metal brace and blow fuse.
Bought a 12 volt circuit breaker to put in fuse box. just reset it each time it pop. saved on fuses.

Thanks again for your words of wisdom guys. After reading the new info the only thing I can think of doing now is disconnecting the side stand switch. At least it's a start

I have no problem with doing that because I never really saw much use in the thing anyway. I wished Triumph had used their time and energy in putting something useful in. In saying that though, it probably would have not worked properly anyway.

So, can anyone tell me what's involved in disconnecting or better still, removing the side stand switch. It couldn't be too hard I wouldn't have thought

As far as Ozbam is Concerned. Leave that one with me for the moment but I like the idea

I don't know, Stacka. This thread of yours has turned towards the problem you're having as being electrical. Yet as I sit here I wonder why (for example) would the side stand switch cause the bike to die, only to start up again after a few minutes. It's the part about how it "starts after a few minutes" that causes me to doubt the problem is electrical.

I remember a car I had would die, only to start up again after a few minutes. Turned out to be debris in the fuel tank getting clogged against the in-tank filter as fuel was sucked out. Once the car sat for a few minutes, the crud fell away and settled out and the car started up again, only to have the cycle repeat itself. Drove me crazy until I figured out what it was. In other words, I still wouldn't rule out the possibility of your problem having something to do with fuel delivery. But then again... what do I know?! Just thinking out loud.

Keith, you might be on to something there, maybe crud in the bottom of the tank is intermittently plugging the petcock screen? I need to pull the tank on my jeep right now, as a matter of fact, as it is randomly cutting off the fuel delivery. Same symptoms as Stacka is describing.

Keith, I like thinking out loud cos I find it helps to nut things out. After all, aren't we all thinking out loud when we getbon here???

Anyway, something tells me your onto something. How's that for thinking out loud hey?

Why I think your "thinking out loud" hypothesis has substance is because we seemed to have ruled out electrical issues. I'm not saying completely ruled though. Get to the frigging point Stacka I here ha ha

Ok, the time before last when my bike just shut down, I was on a trip and my fuel was getting low. Now it makes sense to me the chances of the pet ******'s filter becoming shutj off with a something'in the fuel would be much more possible when the said "whatever it is" is sitting low and not moving around say for instance when the tank's been refilled.

Similarly, the last time it happened I was also getting low in juice. I know we may be hoping a bit here but stranger things have happened I'm sure.

How about I just put this one to bed and check it out and see? It's no skin off my nose.

The next thing is how. Without having done it or looked at the manual for instructions, can anyone who has cleaned out the tank's fuel ******'s mesh filter, tell me what to do or do I just undo the petcock's screws and follow my nose. I think if that's the case, the more interesting part would be making sure it was sealed up properly with no leaks.

Regardless, for some reason I'm thinking we may be onto something here but then again it may just wishful (notice it's not out loud this time ) thinking.

Time for bed now but how good would it be if I found some evidence pointing to some piece of fuel crud being the culprit hey???

I've had the petcock off and don't remember having any trouble doing it. Yup, just 'follow your nose' as you say... it's just two small bolts as I recall. I'll state the obvious by saying, remember to drain the tank first! Of course if there's crud blocking the mesh filter, draining the tank should be interesting.

Bear in mind, if it IS a fuel delivery issue, the problem could be further down, as in the hidden filter or something to do with the carbs. Did you ever pull the drains on each carb to test for free flow of fuel?

Are you a kill switch user. I don't think I have ever used mine. My prediction, the kill switch is going out if its not the ignition. I would hard wire the kill switch to open and see how it acts.

The fact that you stated that "it just dies, no sputtering" indicates electrical. Typically when a bike runs out of fuel, it rarely just quits. There is usually some degree of sputtering. Doesn't hurt to check the fuel system though. Hope it's as simple as that.

For the electrial end, I'd try isolating the electrical items that would cause the engine to quit. Side stand switch, kill switch, ignition switch. For the sidestand switch, you would jumper the plug that feeds the switch. Some switches are not easy to jumper.

Question, have you disconnected your throttle position sensor. Hate ranting on this but I had a problem similar to yours where my engine would cut out suddenly kind of like hitting the rev limiter but in the lower rpm range. It was the switch. By disconnecting it, the problem disappeared. Food for thought.

Ok guys, this is what I want to do for starters. I've just filled up so I'd prefer rather than having to drain it, I use it up.

Also I want to see if my theory there is more chance the crud (if there is any) may drift into the petcock's mesh whilst there is low fuel and therefore be the means whereby I'm conking out.

Of course there's no guarantees it will even happen with a low fuel level but as you know this is trial and error. Then when the level is minimal I'll drain the tank into a bucket, take the petcock off and then since the tank as best I can with more premium fuel. Then I can see if indeed we are talking about a bad batch of fuel etc.

Once I've done this I'll be more informed as to whether I then look at the electrical cut off system i.e. the bike stand cut off switch and/or the bike's cut off switch on the handlebars.

I think it's better to go this way rather than the possibility taking off or disconnecting these switches unnecessarily.

So bear with me guys, of course I'll be letting you know of anything that occurs because you all have a vested interest in the outcome and of course who was more on the money than others.

Btw, If you are interested in putting some money down because you reckon you're reasons are more right that others, I'd prefer you create a new thread so the U.S. watchdog isn't on my back for whatever law I've broken.

As usual, I am always thankful for your time in helping me out. Now that I'm retired, who knows I now might be lucky enough to meet some of you and even better get to ride with some of you at one of your rally's. Who knows, ya never know ya luck do ya?

Yes Stacka, do the easy things first.
Then cross them off the list.
A problem that comes and goes can be trying.
Keep at it,
Uncle Charlie