 Re: Global Warming?
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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I saw the owner of the biggest taxi fleet around here on TV the other day talking about their new cars. They had switched entirely to hybrids. The interviewer was talking as if they had switched to antimatter reactors while the taxi owner sounded as if it were a complete no brainer and couldn't believe the other fella thought it was news. His final comment was, "I do this to make money and I make a lot more money with hybrids."
I wonder how much of the electricity used by these hybrid cars was produced by burning coal. And, as mentioned previously, what about the batteries? Are we going to ship them third world countries like we do with electronic waste? Being environmentally friendly is more than simply buying into 'oil is evil'!
Hybrids produce their own electricity.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I didn't quote that Bill, I was speaking of fully electric cars that need to be plugged in to charge.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Send lawyers, guns and money, cause the sh*t has hit the fan!
-W. Zevon
2020 Bud Ekins T100
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Re: Global Warming?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Ian, wasn't saying you did, so don't take it that way. But Larry had and I think a couple other folks. But like I also said, pretty much all experts have been warning our government and our utilities companies that our electrical infrastructure is sorely outdated and in need of upgrading and improvements. Same goes for a lot of our roadways, but as you correctly point out, there is no longer a sense of national pride or community spirit it seems, and too much political infighting to fix this problem.
Frankly, with our growth in other sectors (housing which is starting back up again) and the very slow growth of electric vehicles, I think it will be other factors that bring our infrastructure down when or if it does collapse (for instance a continuation of this nationwide heat wave we are all seeing). If you factor in that MOST people would charge their car overnight during minimum load (since most businesses are shutdown at night, or on reduced loads, and most people shut most of the electronics and heavy loads off after 9pm or so when they go to bed) and that a standard SEMA EV Charging station (fairly typical of what would be installed in a business or home) uses 240V 30Amp service, that's the same as an electric dryer service. Therefore, unless you're drying all of your laundry at night, there wouldn't be any more draw on the system with an EV plugged in than with a dryer running.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Yeah Ian, I could have cut your part out; I was responding to Jim. sometimes I'm just lazy 
Last edited by bigbill; 07/10/2012 12:41 AM.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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There is this option too.
http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/20...next-generation
Yes, but they power a matter/anti-matter reaction and if a reactor becomes unstable............goodbye everyone 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Quote:
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I saw the owner of the biggest taxi fleet around here on TV the other day talking about their new cars. They had switched entirely to hybrids. The interviewer was talking as if they had switched to antimatter reactors while the taxi owner sounded as if it were a complete no brainer and couldn't believe the other fella thought it was news. His final comment was, "I do this to make money and I make a lot more money with hybrids."
I wonder how much of the electricity used by these hybrid cars was produced by burning coal. And, as mentioned previously, what about the batteries? Are we going to ship them third world countries like we do with electronic waste? Being environmentally friendly is more than simply buying into 'oil is evil'!
Hybrids produce their own electricity.
Guys, I've got this perpetual motion machine I invented, YOU can get in on the ground floor. All YOU need to do is send me $....... 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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New Tires
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New Tires
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I believe almost everyone agree the grid needs to be "hardened" and improved. The advantages are enormous, from defense, eliminating rolling brown outs thur efficiency of transmission, and even communities not losing power from severe weather. The problem is there's no money, although "the stimulus" would have been a great opportunity to do it, but the wrong kind of people would have gotten the employment. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
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I believe almost everyone agree the grid needs to be "hardened" and improved. The advantages are enormous, from defense, eliminating rolling brown outs thur efficiency of transmission, and even communities not losing power from severe weather. The problem is there's no money, although "the stimulus" would have been a great opportunity to do it, but the wrong kind of people would have gotten the employment.
Along with the rest of our infrastructure. But that's not where our money goes. Eisenhower tried to warn us but not enough people listened.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
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There is this option too.
http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/20...next-generation
Yes, but they power a matter/anti-matter reaction and if a reactor becomes unstable............goodbye everyone
Waaa, waa, global annihilation, boo hoo! Geez, some people so complain about instant elimination of the human race! There are bigger things people, like, um, the Kardashians, geez, get a clue!
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Re: Global Warming?
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New Tires
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I'm not sure what Eisenhower has to do with the 2009 stimulus, but let's not forget he justified the interstate system for defense purposes, which in hind sight was a stretch. But, it was the right decision to build and benefits everyone. As a % of GDP military spending has been trending downward since Eisenhower's time, usually hovering around 5% or less. Granted, there has been exceptions, Reagan 7% and Bush II 6%, for rearmament and wars. One thing Eisenhower never envisioned was the shrinking of our allies military budgets, unfortunately nature hates a vacuum. We could become an "old republican" isolationist version of "Fortress America" and tell the rest of the world to go to hell. Actually, with the resent oil discoveries we probably could.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Hybrids produce their own electricity.
Yes and they can be plugged in as well (link) . The production of electricity is akin to an alternator charging a battery on a regular car, although a lot more efficient it is still limited. Real savings comes from plugging into the electrical grid where the prices are cheaper (less highly taxed).
That of course raises another issue. Gas tax was supposed to pay for the infrastructure. What happens when people switch en mass to electrical. The government will have to increase taxes to electricity.
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Re: Global Warming?
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New Tires
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Electricity rates will go up, as well as their excise taxes to subsidies electric auto use, like electric rates are subsidizing wind and solar generation now, where utilities are required to use them. Fossil based autos are also a threat to gov revenues as they become smaller and more efficient. Not to worry, legislation taxing mileage is already in the works. I'm sure all this revenue will be put in a "lock box", like all the fuel taxes paid in the past, right next to the social security "lock box".
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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I'm sure all this revenue will be put in a "lock box", like all the fuel taxes paid in the past, right next to the social security "lock box".
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Re: Global Warming?
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New Tires
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New Tires
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This is a chart of what corporations are betting on the USA. Some of it was surprising,I mean who would have thought Walmart would be near the top of the list for capital investment in the USA. http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/whos-really-betting-on-america-big-oil-and-wal-mart/
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Electricity rates will go up, as well as their excise taxes to subsidies electric auto use, like electric rates are subsidizing wind and solar generation now, where utilities are required to use them.
Fossil based autos are also a threat to gov revenues as they become smaller and more efficient. Not to worry, legislation taxing mileage is already in the works. I'm sure all this revenue will be put in a "lock box", like all the fuel taxes paid in the past, right next to the social security "lock box".
One of the things they want to do is put a GPS on your car that will report when and where you are driving so they can tax you for both total miles and extra for being in congested areas. Hmmm, government agents tracking you everywhere you drive, certainly no cause for concern. As a bonus, they will make you buy and maintain the thing as a condition of your "privilege" to drive.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Quote:
Quote:
Electricity rates will go up, as well as their excise taxes to subsidies electric auto use, like electric rates are subsidizing wind and solar generation now, where utilities are required to use them.
Fossil based autos are also a threat to gov revenues as they become smaller and more efficient. Not to worry, legislation taxing mileage is already in the works. I'm sure all this revenue will be put in a "lock box", like all the fuel taxes paid in the past, right next to the social security "lock box".
One of the things they want to do is put a GPS on your car that will report when and where you are driving so they can tax you for both total miles and extra for being in congested areas. Hmmm, government agents tracking you everywhere you drive, certainly no cause for concern. As a bonus, they will make you buy and maintain the thing as a condition of your "privilege" to drive.
There's already plans to put "black boxes" in autos in the not too distant future. You'll just get the ticket in the mail. The Gov is already monitoring cell phones location and who calls who, through warrant-less data dumps. Unfortunately, we have become a people of entitlement and far more docile than previous generations. Beggars are always easier to please. Sorry, didn't mean to spread hate and fear.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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And how long has that rumor (about the black boxes in cars) been going around, at least for about 10 years. I remember hearing about that kind of stuff back in the late 90's. Sure it's possible, and technically feasible, but the Constitution still forbids invasion of privacy, although thanks to the Bush and Obama administrations and the abomination we call the Patriot Act, who knows any more....
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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And how long has that rumor (about the black boxes in cars) been going around, at least for about 10 years. I remember hearing about that kind of stuff back in the late 90's. Sure it's possible, and technically feasible, but the Constitution still forbids invasion of privacy, although thanks to the Bush and Obama administrations and the abomination we call the Patriot Act, who knows any more....
Section 31406 Senate Bill 1813 passed the Senate, sponsored by Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid requiring "black boxes" on all all new cars by 2015. I guess it's not a rumor anymore.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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And how long has that rumor (about the black boxes in cars) been going around, at least for about 10 years. I remember hearing about that kind of stuff back in the late 90's. Sure it's possible, and technically feasible, but the Constitution still forbids invasion of privacy, although thanks to the Bush and Obama administrations and the abomination we call the Patriot Act, who knows any more....
First, privacy is not mentioned in the constitution, it's an unenumerated right so it's subject to judicial reconsideration more than speech. Second, who gets to decide what constitutes an invasion of privacy? I'll bet they all get paychecks from the government! Right now there is a debate about whether or not spying on us with drones without a warrant is ok. That this is even a question shows how bad it's become. 
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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As for the "Black Boxes" that is what OnStar is. A GPS hooked up to a cel phone that people at the other end can track any time they want. I have no idea why anyone would care where I am or what I'm doing. But the knowledge that, whenever they want, they can, makes me feel a bit like Winston Smith.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Probably find insurance companies (among others) backing this so they have a tool to deny claims and/or raise rates.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Actually, it is for law enforcement, they are the only ones that can access it with a warrant and we all know how hard it is to get a judge to sign one. OK, in the imaginary world of television it's hard to get one signed.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Probably find insurance companies (among others) backing this so they have a tool to deny claims and/or raise rates.
Insurance companies are always in favor of the nanny state liberty reducing stuff. Smoking, helmets, etc. Anything to reduce their exposure to risk. At least the risk their customers present. If the government becomes the actuary how do we switch companies?
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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 Re: Global Warming?
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Black boxes and a disable sensor/actuator in the plans for all autos? I won't elaborate here, but I have been reading about it for a couple of years now. I do hope it's all a bunch of BS, but I'm not so sure anymore. We are gonna find out, aren't we? We will even pay them to do it to us, no precedent there.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Quote:
Black boxes and a disable sensor/actuator in the plans for all autos? I won't elaborate here, but I have been reading about it for a couple of years now. I do hope it's all a bunch of BS, but I'm not so sure anymore. We are gonna find out, aren't we? We will even pay them to do it to us, no precedent there.
I watched "The Blob" this week, actually a well filmed movie, it reminded me of our governance. That huge growing amoeba like collection of laws and regulatory agency rules, implemented by legislatures and faceless bureaucrats. The truth is the average citizen has no idea of the scope of these "laws" or whether they beak any on a day to day basis. But, that's the point, if they want you, they got you and what average person has the resources to defend themselves. Most scholarship done on the subject estimates the average citizen unknowingly breaks at least two laws a day, if one runs a business, large or small, they break three or four. I'm not for lawlessness, governance of a free people should be simple, rational and not "stealth".
Unfortunately, even discounting the inadvertent "lawlessness", we are becoming more and more willing to knowingly skirt the laws, because so many make no sense or are pandering to a special interest.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Second Wind
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Second Wind
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If there was a true crisis they would promote the most efficient, and affordable form of transportaion available now, Motorcycle riding. Motorcycles get better fuel economy take up less space, and would by default reduce fuel consumption, emmissions, traffic congestion, and reduce parking space requirements.
If we were really in direstraights about fuel and energy consumption, simple laws like; motorcycle only lanes, toll free passage for motorcycles on toll roads, and allow motorcycles to move to the front of the line at red lights, would get people more interested in motorcycle riding right away and, would continue a trend towards motorcycling, therefore reducing consumption of fuel by more than a marginal amount rather quickly.
How is that for a run on sentence?
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Global Warming?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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The Blob was the only movie Terence Steven McQueen was billed as Steven rather than Steve.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
Quote:
And how long has that rumor (about the black boxes in cars) been going around, at least for about 10 years. I remember hearing about that kind of stuff back in the late 90's. Sure it's possible, and technically feasible, but the Constitution still forbids invasion of privacy, although thanks to the Bush and Obama administrations and the abomination we call the Patriot Act, who knows any more....
First, privacy is not mentioned in the constitution, it's an unenumerated right so it's subject to judicial reconsideration more than speech. Second, who gets to decide what constitutes an invasion of privacy? I'll bet they all get paychecks from the government! Right now there is a debate about whether or not spying on us with drones without a warrant is ok. That this is even a question shows how bad it's become.
In my opinion privacy is a protected right under the first amendment, and especially under the fourth amendment.
To wit: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
This is the amendment that respects our privacy. The key word is 'effects'.
Doesn't mean they aren't gonna do it anyway. 
Send lawyers, guns and money, cause the sh*t has hit the fan!
-W. Zevon
2020 Bud Ekins T100
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