 Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
I call it regional warming.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
NO NO NO, wait its climate diversification.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
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No Loco, it's about power, control, and taxes. Dispute that, that is the end result? When the gas that we exhale was officially designated as a pollutant, we lost.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,420
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,420 |
A Belch is just one gust of wind,
That cometh from thy Heart...
But should it take the downward trend,
It turns into a Fart
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 538
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2010
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See I'm working on a way to get rich farting..  
Are we there YET? I gotta go pee!!
08 SpeedMASTER, Black and Red!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
No Loco, it's about power, control, and taxes. Dispute that, that is the end result? When the gas that we exhale was officially designated as a pollutant, we lost.
I'm with ya. I was just making a little joke.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
See I'm working on a way to get rich farting..
I get some pretty rich farts from eating hummus. 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
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Quote:
@Bayern710
Even with all this I still am not a skeptic of man made global warming I just haven't been convince one way or the other. It is also probably a great idea to conduct our affairs as if man made global warming is true. At the very least we would be leaving out kids a better world.
Agreed, and I alluded to the fact that climatologists are probably still learning a LOT, but then one could say that about geologists, physicists and even chemists, simply due to the improving nature of our equipment, computing abilities, sensors, satellites, etc... And when you are talking about an amazingly complex system such as our climate and our environment, even more so. But as you said, and I wholeheartedly agree with, better to proceed with caution than stick our heads in the sand. The human species, and many species on this planet for that matter, have an amazingly narrow tolerance band for the kind of environment that we can handle and cope with. I don't think some people realize just how little of a temperature swing it would take to throw our environment so far out of whack that the human species could rapidly approach mass extinction due to starvation. As much as we think we are all John Wayne, the human species is very fragile, especially given that we are totally dependent on MUCH more fragile systems such as crop species for our survival. With our current planetary population, if we were to have a few years or decades of short growing seasons such as was seen in the Maunder minimum (where there was famine and starvation due to shortened growing seasons), mass starvation would be almost certain. It was certain in the Maunder minimum, and would be greatly exacerbated by the population explosion we've seen in the last century coupled with longer life spans and improved medicines and survivability....
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Quote:
Quote:
Global warming as a result of human activity is BS. We all just hashed this out in 2 different threads. This one makes 3 in the last couple weeks or so.
Sorry Ian, we'll have to disagree. And as far as hashing it out, all I saw was postings about global warming being a farce without any real data or statistics to back up those assertions. If you believe that 6,900,000,000 people, over 1,000,000,000 cars,and over 2300 coal-fired power plants all pumping out carbon dioxide,carbon monoxide, and other pollutants, combined with the fact that we have massively reduced the amount of trees and arable land in every country on the globe and replaced it with buildings, asphalt, etc... has no impact on the planet, then all I can say is we will have to disagree. And yes, I know the statistics about how 1 volcano can put out more gases and all of that, but those are spikes, not an incessant daily emission that only grows. And while it's growing, countries like China, India and Brazil are all clear-cutting more forests, clearing more farmland, building more, and so on. And like it or not, what the Chinese do, or what we do, does affect other countries. Each country, or continent does not have it's own little climate system, it is all one massive system joined together by the jet streams, the oceans, and so on. The point is, we have ONE planet to live on, PERIOD. If we are gradually throwing our system out of balance, it is being done over a couple hundred years, and if we royally frack it up, turning it back around could take even longer. IF we can't turn it around, it's not like we can just jump ship and leave for another planet. I don't know what the long term predictions are, I'm sure the climate scientists are only slightly more able, since it is such a big complex system, but whether it goes drastically colder or warmer, we can't tolerate too much variation. Our society certainly cannot handle an ice age even approaching the severity of the last real ice age. And if we're talking warming, we can't handle that either. The loss along major coastal cities with a couple inches rise in ocean levels because of the disappearing ice packs (which has been easily verified by surface area measurements which are readily available from satellite images among other methods) could bankrupt this or any other country. Not to mention drought (like what has hit Texas over the last couple years or South Carolina a couple years back) and other things. Even the migratory paths over birds have been seeing changes. In fact, it might not even be us going as drastic as an ice age or toward tropical temperatures, the mini Ice Age we had in the early 1800's wrecked crops all over the plant and cause all kinds of problems. It could be just enough warming or cooling to cause a greatly increased frequency of severe weather like the tornado season that took a pretty heavy toll on the US last summer, or increasing the frequency of Katrina level storms, or a drought in the midwest where it actually affects our ability to feed ourselves and the world. What would happen to this country,and others, if the Midwest had a drought even half as bad as that hitting Texas?
I never said pollution is a good thing but I stand by my statement. One volcanic eruption eclipses everything we have pumped out as far as green house gases since the industrial revolution. I don't feel like searching for the evidence I have seen over and over, just doesn't matter to me enough. Even the people in most cases who used to squack about it have come out and admitted the science was skewed. It is a political money maker nothing more. The earth will regulate itself and what we are experiencing is natural climate change. Pretty obtuse of us to think in the miniscule time we have had on the earth or even more the even smaller time we have been industrialized that we could cause such a change. Global warming as caused by us is BS.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Just like all the BS about how bad it is to dump oil on the ground and antifreeze. Some people I have known since I was a teenager own a junkyard where we spent all summer every summer pumping waste oil on the roads to keep the dust down and we cut radiator hoses when stripping the cars where they sat in the yard. Pull a tranny and all that would dump on the ground too. That yard has been run the way since the 1950s. The EPA came in in the early 2000s to inspect and test for contamination and they got a top notch rating and the place was completely clean and it has never been cleaned up in anyway. So again I say political BS.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
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Quote:
One volcanic eruption eclipses everything we have pumped out as far as green house gases since the industrial revolution. I don't feel like searching for the evidence I have seen over and over, just doesn't matter to me enough. Even the people in most cases who used to squack about it have come out and admitted the science was skewed.
Sorry Ian, both of those points are utter BS. Here is a study from the United States Geologic Survey.
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php
Humans emit 35 GIGATONS annually, versus 0.44 Gigatons from all Earth outgassing, i.e. volcanoes and other sources.
So far I haven't seen one post with any evidence to the contrary, only posts stating that we can't possibly be responsible and it's all political. No, it's science. The same kind of science that allows us to put men on the moon, to make a wire that is only 4 atoms across, that allows us to build a reactor under the Swiss Alps and potentially accelerate a particle beyond light speed. Or are they all politicians too. When did we as a society decide that scientists are all idiots or corrupt, rather than respect them for the knowledge and research that they do. God help us if we'd shown the same disbelief to Albert Einstein. "Oh sure Al, of COURSE you can split atoms! (derisive laughter in the background) Of course you can't be bothered to provide evidence, because it does not exist. Even one of the top climate change skeptics found this out on a study funded by the Koch Foundation, one of the biggest funders of anti-climate change science. Of course, as soon as he ended up contradicting them, he was accused of being bought out, of being a charlatan, etc..., despite the fact that he had been one of the Koch Foundations biggest and most important spokesmen in Congressional hearings in trying to debunk man made climate change. In fact, in the several posts about this, I've yet to see ANY credible scientific data to the contrary, only postulations that it's all politics.
Second, among the scientific community, the consensus is FAR and away in support of man contributing to global warming. Show one credible study otherwise, and I'll not say another word other than to admit my mistake. Sorry, just because you or others on here say it's BS, doesn't make it so, especially if you guys won't even post anything to support the position.
Last edited by Bayern710; 01/14/2012 11:45 PM.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
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If you have proof, not gigo models but actual proof, of global warming over the last ten years or so please provide the link. CO2 is a tiny part of the total atmosphere and the demonstrated manmade percentage of that is a tiny fraction of that tiny fraction.
My personal favorite argument of the warmists is that the sun cannot be responsible for any of the warming, only man is responsible and that trillions of dollars must be transferred to the "experts" to provide a tiny fraction of a degree of mitigation of the warming projected by their computer models.
Personally I'm looking forward to the sun causing considerable warming over the next few months.
By the way, if the proof of this is so overwhelming, why do the warmists have to hide their raw data, freeze out any contradictory opinions and destroy the careers of those who disagree? Since when does the scientific method allow for declaring that a theory is above criticism and cannot be challenged?
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Sorry Larry, I've provided several links to evidence in support of my positions, I have yet to see ONE link to anything, let alone anything credible, that debunks my points. To date, the entire argument that I've heard is that it's BS, it's politically motivated, and it simply can't be possible, or statements about volcanoes, which the USGS survey clearly debunks. I've done my part, prove my arguments wrong.
Further, provide any proof that anyone was "frozen out". One credible link. Debunk Richard Mueller and BEST, who despite being OUTSPOKEN critics of anthropocentric global warming, and being funded to provide a study doing so, are now supporters of it after doing their own independent study.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
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One volcanic eruption eclipses everything we have pumped out as far as green house gases since the industrial revolution.
I really have to say something here, because I've seen this statement over and over on this board, and it just isn't true. Human activity produces 100 times more CO2 than volcanoes, averaged over time. Here's one source:
USGS
The other thing I have seen stated in this thread and in others is that man produces an insignificant amount of CO2 to have an effect on chemical balance of the atmosphere. The atmosphere contains about 720 billion tons carbon. The natural flux of CO2 in and out of the atmosphere from natural processes like photosynthesis, volcanoes, decomposition and the like is about 60 billion tons carbon per year. Man is adding about 6 billion tons or more to that stream from the burning of fossil fuels. 6/60 is over 10%. That is not an insignificant number and it easily accounts for the measurable increase of CO2 that we are seeing.
Last edited by Cody; 01/15/2012 12:30 AM.
I was born a long ways from where I was supposed to be. - Bob Dylan
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 538
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2010
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Quote:
Quote:
+1 
Go ride and Do or Do NOT do your part in Global Warming! 
Are we there YET? I gotta go pee!!
08 SpeedMASTER, Black and Red!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 538
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2010
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Are we there YET? I gotta go pee!!
08 SpeedMASTER, Black and Red!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 754
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: May 2011
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Okay, I gotta chime back in....I read somehwere (and don't recall exactly where) that the recent earthquake in Japan that caused a nuclear catastrophy in (was it) Fukoshima... may, MAY have changed the Earths' rotational axis enough to affect increased temperatures in the lower latitudes. If'n and earthquake can do that, it doesn't take much to reason that the cummulative effect of recent similar techtonic activities (over say the last 3 or so decades) may be the culprit. Nevertheless, I still think "Global Warming" is mostly hooyee and a money grab! Don't get me wrong, I'm all for clean air, clean water, protecting our Natl. Forests & stuff.....heck I even recycle roughly 85% of my "consumer" waste (and BTW my local town gooberment wants me to "donate" cash to the city recycling program----but they are already making $$$$ from the resale of recycleable materials....go figure  ) .... but I still think it's about more $$$ that some gooberment fatso wants to take outta my pocket in additional excise taxes and mandatory carbon offsets !
Karl
Odessa, MO
'07 America, Cinnamon Girl (aka: Black Beauty or Ol' Penny) - Sit Down, Shut Up & Hang On
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
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See wish you had Global warming RIGHT NOW don't you 
I know  sucks not riding   
Well, yeah, it beats an Ice Age hands down. Of course, Newt and Moe might have a word to say about having to ride around in waste deep seawater if the Antartic ice shelf melts off, but hey, I'm 4900 feet above sea level, so I'm good....
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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Of coarse it's science, political science and as I stated before, not important enough to me to waste my time looking for the articles I have read.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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As to the original post, warmer seas mean more evaporation. Warmer air carries more moisture. It makes perfect sense. We can probably expect more of the same.
I was born a long ways from where I was supposed to be. - Bob Dylan
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
Of coarse it's science, political science and as I stated before, not important enough to me to waste my time looking for the articles I have read.
Which is exactly why we don't generally allow politics or politically charged discussions on here, because in the end, no one is going to change their mind while the destructive after effects remain.
Not singling you out Ian, your statement just demonstrated this very succinctly.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
I understand John and I know what you mean.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Thanks for the links and info. I hear the "volcanoes do more in a day than humans have in all time thing" from the doh-heads so often that it's nice to have some facts.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
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here's some interesting news out of China Bill. Apparently the Communists have bought into Global Warming and expect crop output to fall between 5-20% over the next few decades. Man, you can't even count on the hardline Commies to ignore Gore.... http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-bus...0118-1q5x1.html
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Why would crops fail during warm weather? Plants grow better in warm humid areas. No jungles in Alaska if ya take my meaning.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Global Warming?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Too much or too little water seems to be the crux of it. Warm weather can cause heavier rains due to heavier evaporation in some areas coupled with condensation, or conversely coupled with high pressure areas could lead to extended drought periods. And when you've go a few billion people to feed and already depend on the West to supply a good chunk of your grain for food and cattle feed, that could be a MAJOR issue to them.
Last edited by Bayern710; 01/18/2012 2:04 PM.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Eeh! Ya know what's REALLY causin' all that over there in China right now, don't ya Greg? Uh huh, it's the ghost of Mao comin' back to haunt those folks over there 'cause they're doin' business with Wal-Mart and have gone all Capitalistic over there since Ol' Moon Face bit the dirt!!!! (...well, at least that's MY theory anyway!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Global Warming?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Serves 'em right if it that's the case Dwight, that's what they get for tolerating him and his "Cultural Revolution" (what a nice euphamism for extermination of your poltical enemies)....
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Yep, that's true alright! (...serves 'em right!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,382
Learned Hand
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OP
Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,382 |
Didn't mean to start a divisive discussion here. Simply meant to point out that Alaska has gotten a $hit load of snow so far this year. Read an article yesterday that said Valdez, AK was advertising nationally for people to do snow removal (20 bucks and hour). They were needed to help dig out of the 322 plus inches of snow they had gotten so far this winter. The "Global Warming" post title was perhaps a poor teaser. I'll be more careful next time!
'06 TBA - Black, AI and Snorkel removed, K&N Drop In, Gutted Stock Pipes, 145/42, 2 turns out.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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No need to apologize Don, as long as the discussion is civil, people should be able to discuss things they disagree about. As divisive posts go, this one was VERY tame compared to some in past days when the Moderators had to step in and really clamp down. This never got above the "what oil is best" level of rancor! 
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Re: Global Warming?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I just wish some of that snow would make it down to the resorts on the I-70 corridor! A-Basin has gotten some snow but they and others could use a bunch more!
'06 TBA - Black, AI and Snorkel removed, K&N Drop In, Gutted Stock Pipes, 145/42, 2 turns out.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Tell me about it! Hitting the 60's this week and weekend. Um, it's MID JANUARY! We had 24-36 inches along the front range before Christmas, now we're having a warm spell. Need a good GOOD HARD freeze here, and a LONG one at that, to help knock out these stupid pine beetles, this warm weather is not helping.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
been in the single digits here to mid teens F.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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We need a bunch of snow on the West Slope to help with our water supply.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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On this side of the country we have had too much water the table in very high.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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You might be getting that Bill, sounds like a big one is hitting Washington right now, so if it heads a bit south, we might actually see some snow again....
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
We've got a foot of global warming on the ground, with more on the way, and I'm too sick to go outside and shovel...
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Re: Global Warming?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Much as I love the 60 degree weather, since I've got the front and back end of the bike apart for cleaning and maintenance, it becomes a matter of the weather mocking me, so send the white stuff this way....
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