 Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
I have no problem subsidizing production as well, since capital equipment purchasing and production validation testing can be one of the most demanding phases of a companies startup with regard to capital. Research costs money, don't get me wrong, but in automotive for instance, one has to purchase all of the production equipment, hire operators, buy production materials from production tooling, and then run months upon months of production validation tests (and re-tests if there are failures, and we EASILY spent north of $150,000 on validation testing for ONE customer, not including our own internal tests which were required for our own warranty info and projections) while not being allowed to ship production goods to the customer. Also, prototype samples are often sold at 10-20 times the cost of a production quality component so can help a companies bottom line. This is a lot of capital and inventory (since you don't just run the samples needed for testing but a much larger production run that the parts are pulled from at random) to sit on while not having any revenue from that customer, hence the difficulty in getting many good ideas to actually be produced and sold (without sinking a company!)
What do you think banks and investors are for? 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
To, I think, everyone's surprise (including mine) we are actually going to MAKE money on the "bailouts' to the auto companies.
Win, win.
Its spin no way on earth I will never believe it. How do you go from billions of dollars in debt and needing a "bail out" to covering operation costs and paying back the billions of dollars while not having any significant increase in sales.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
To, I think, everyone's surprise (including mine) we are actually going to MAKE money on the "bailouts' to the auto companies.
Win, win.
Its spin no way on earth I will never believe it. How do you go from billions of dollars in debt and needing a "bail out" to covering operation costs and paying back the billions of dollars while not having any significant increase in sales.
Let us see, GM is trading at $20.15, it's IPO was about $33 and the fed gov has to sell at about $52 to break even. I may be wrong, but I think they still owe the gov $15 billion in loans. They could have paid some back, but decided to give their employees $5000 bonuses last fall. Seems they were afraid their employees would leave for other jobs, what jobs!
Last edited by MACMC; 12/29/2011 8:10 PM.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Wal Mart gave us a whole $12 as a bonus.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Wal Mart gave us a whole $12 as a bonus.
Wal Mart is an actual going concern, they used their own money. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
What do you think banks and investors are for?
I believe I included investors as a major source of funding, but banks, not so much any more. All the reports I've heard are that banks aren't all that willing to give out loans unless it's a 100% surefire guarantee, and that they are sitting on huge reserves. Further, banks are great (even before the crash) IF you are already a well-established company with a guaranteed product, but if you are a greenfield company or launching a new product that is untested, they're not so quick to hand out loans. There is some truth to the old complaint that banks are always willing to give out loans to people who already have money. As pointed out, the life of a company that requires the most amount of money, effort and time is that point where you are going from research to production. A company at this point most likely selling a product upon which to draw from profits for their equipment, their financials probably aren't very good from a banks perspective, and yet they have to buy expensive equipment, tooling, dies, etc..., and go through testing. A case in point is the pharmaceutical industry, where even established companies have to buy the equipment for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, hire engineers and hourly workers, and then sit on all of that investment for 2, 3 or 5 years while the FDA does it's approval thing. IF you've got that many people investing, or big bank loans, great, that's not always the case, and that's where groups like the Small Business Administration or gov't investment funds are great. Besides, what exactly is the difference if a company gets a loan to get it over that hurdle and into production, where jobs are actually created, or if it's just research. As long as the taxpayer gets their money back, that should be the key goal.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
As a veteran I want to ask, why is it that so many of the people who are so opposed to government investing in people and business seem to have no trouble with the government spending trillions to destroy $hit for no justifiable reason?
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22 |
I think the government usually does not get their money back is the problem Greg. Remember the 500 million mess.
Smokey, there are lots of us that are opposed to the trillions wasted in needless actions.
Google, Apple, Microsoft, HP, didn't rise or fall on government loans. There are millionaires in the cell phone business today. They follow trends and do what folks need.
There is an app online that allows your cell phone to tether that cost 20 bucks. The script kiddie that wrote that makes millions.
There is a .99 cent app that lets your smart phone tell you the roof pitch or angle. Downloaded 387000 times in 3 years.
I think if you want to manufacture something you are in the wrong country to do that. We don't make stuff here. It cost too much money. Make a design, prototype and patent it.
Remember Tesla, he would have patented air if they let him. The money is in the idea.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Ron, you are correct, Google and Microsoft didn't rise on gov't loans, but it was gov't money that paid for the research and development of the fundamental tool that created the forum that they were invented to serve, the Internet. And a lot of that gov't money was spent on the startup costs of manufacturing the original computers, infrastructure, etc... that had to be put in place first. Again, I'm not advocating that EVERY project needs gov't funding, but I've also seen where gov't funding for research AND manufacturing has been a huge boon and reaps dividends much further than JUST getting the taxpayer money paid back. Germany is an excellent example of a closely tied relationship between gov't and industry, and research institutions/universities. The universities, industries, etc... develop the ideas together, then if needed get seed money from the gov't to make the idea a reality, and often the biggest part of making an idea reality is actually figuring out how to manufacture an idea effectively and profitably, which requires a lot of capital(money). In the end, the gov't gets paid back, jobs are created, university students get practical experience, and the economy thrives. Look at how well they weathered the 2008 crash vs us. And I just saw a study done recently that the German car companies are outproducing the Big 3, paying double the wage, and staying profitable, while being union (although the relationship between German unions and companies is nothing like here, and is quite effective)
And, actually I will disagree with you on the US manufacturing being too expensive, that trend is actually starting to reverse slightly thanks to the weaker dollar. When coupled with the costs of shipping product to the US from China, and quality issues, it is starting to be more attractive to manufacture here. Hopefully we as a country are smart enough to capitalize on that!
Last edited by Bayern710; 12/30/2011 1:10 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
|
|
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Just to clarify, Microsoft wasn't invented to serve the internet as was Google. It was invented to bring about the apocalypse. 
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
Microsoft was developed to make use of the silicon chip...that was developed in order to miniaturize transistors...primarily for the space program.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
Just to clarify, Microsoft wasn't invented to serve the internet as was Google. It was invented to bring about the apocalypse.
You must be one of them Apple lovin' hippie freaks!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
As a veteran I want to ask, why is it that so many of the people who are so opposed to government investing in people and business seem to have no trouble with the government spending trillions to destroy $hit for no justifiable reason?
I don't think you'll find much support for many of the military actions. Even those who believe that we needed to go into Iraq will agree that it was mishandled from begining to.......well, now.
How ever it is the Gooberments job to provide for the national defence, but its questionable as to the depth of its involvement in private business.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
By the way. I always support and resect our veterans and soldiers.
Thanks for the service, Smokey.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 538
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 538 |
If I filled it up with green beer would that count?? Then that would be a win win 
Are we there YET? I gotta go pee!!
08 SpeedMASTER, Black and Red!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 538
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 538 |
Are we there YET? I gotta go pee!!
08 SpeedMASTER, Black and Red!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22 |
hmmm, I would say Microsoft was for the personal computer age. Linux, RPG, Fortran, Unix, Basic, etc. and later the best ever was OS2 from IBM.
The Mac was made for home use. Microsoft marketed their product to Packard Bell for their consumer division.
Modems were external and optional. The units were used for data via floppy for encyclopedia type stuff and small business accounting.
Graphics and interpreters like CShow came after Windows 3.1.
but I get your point. The government develops stuff for itself then it hits private. Lots of stuff came from the space race.
I just don't believe in Govt. investing in private industry. It breeds as we see crony capitalistic corruption.
I hope we increase manufacturing here. That is the lifeblood of the middle class.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Ron, you are correct, Google and Microsoft didn't rise on gov't loans, but it was gov't money that paid for the research and development of the fundamental tool that created the forum that they were invented to serve, the Internet. And a lot of that gov't money was spent on the startup costs of manufacturing the original computers, infrastructure, etc... that had to be put in place first. Again, I'm not advocating that EVERY project needs gov't funding, but I've also seen where gov't funding for research AND manufacturing has been a huge boon and reaps dividends much further than JUST getting the taxpayer money paid back. Germany is an excellent example of a closely tied relationship between gov't and industry, and research institutions/universities. The universities, industries, etc... develop the ideas together, then if needed get seed money from the gov't to make the idea a reality, and often the biggest part of making an idea reality is actually figuring out how to manufacture an idea effectively and profitably, which requires a lot of capital(money). In the end, the gov't gets paid back, jobs are created, university students get practical experience, and the economy thrives. Look at how well they weathered the 2008 crash vs us. And I just saw a study done recently that the German car companies are outproducing the Big 3, paying double the wage, and staying profitable, while being union (although the relationship between German unions and companies is nothing like here, and is quite effective)
And, actually I will disagree with you on the US manufacturing being too expensive, that trend is actually starting to reverse slightly thanks to the weaker dollar. When coupled with the costs of shipping product to the US from China, and quality issues, it is starting to be more attractive to manufacture here. Hopefully we as a country are smart enough to capitalize on that!
Germany has done all those things since the 30s. They also took a huge hit in 08, 9+% unemployment, but that's no big deal, in the boom decades of the 80s and 90s they averaged over 9+% unemployment. At present Germany is at around 6.1 %, what have they done different?, austerity! Also, never forget that TARP didn't just bail out USA banks.
I always think it's a bad Idea for Gov to pick winners and losers. There's always the knowledge problem, bureaucrats never really know what's going on out in the real world. Besides people will spend and gamble with other peoples' money when they wouldn't their own. That's pretty much why we are in the mess we are in.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
Germany has more social programs than the US has ever thought of...and higher taxes.
Last edited by Smokey3214; 12/31/2011 12:17 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
No Mac, not just austerity programs, and the amounts that Deutsche Bank and others got from TARP was pretty minuscule compared to the German economy overall. Actually, it's funny that you mention unemployment, as Germany actually was on the decline around '08, and continued that trend from a peak of 11.4% in spring of '05, and was at 7% when the world collapsed. There was a brief uptick to 8 in the summer of '09, but then it just started ticking down. Also, during the boom times of the 80's/90's unemployment was around 6%, not over 9, except for a spike right around 9/11 when everyone's economy got shaky for a year or so.
What do they do differently? Lots. They reeducate workers like we never would dream of doing. They didn't bail out their industries like we did. I was in automotive bearings for FAG at the time, and we were hit HARD by the automotive collapse, but the German government told Frau Schäffler that it wouldn't give her a cent until she invested a large part of HER own private fortune (she was #76 in the world for total net worth) into saving FAG and INA Bearings (also LuK and a few other heavy hitters in the automotive & bearing world). There were no massive layoffs though, but there were pay reductions, furloughs, and so on. But no real cuts to social benefits programs. Another thing that they do differently, is during good times AND bad times, they manage their money MUCH more conservatively than we do, and operate on a much more strategic scale with regard to investment compared to our model on Wall St of maximizing short term profits at the expense of long-term growth. At my first employer, Bosch, they funded every single new plant, product launch, etc... with internal funds, no investors, no shareholders, no banks. Even with the hit that they took in 2008 (as #2 OEM auto parts supplier in the world),they are still on that model, and didn't seek any bailout funds. Many German companies are like that from what I have seen in my extensive dealings with them. The French, Italians and so on, not so much, and hence their problems (and perhaps that explains why the Germans run monetary policy for the EU for the most part as well as the European Central Bank)
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Yes they have done very well the last decade especially while carrying the EU on their back. It's hard comparing unemployment statistics between countries, I believe Germany counts people being paid to get reeducation as employed.
I think you will find that most successful private businesses are conservative with their money, so as to weather the business cycle. This is true around the world.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22 |
Mac, I only say its too expensive to manufacture here because of the amount of stuff we import. I truly don't believe the walmartian family are bad Americans. Over 90% of their goods are made in China. I guarantee if they could buy in the U.S. for the same price point they would do it.
A lot of what we consume the EPA would not allow us to make here without a big bunch of regulations, fines, fees, permits etc. Plastics and soft metals are nearly non existent in our manufacturing now as well as batteries and steel.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Agreed, I live ten blocks from a Walmart, the lot is always packed. I buy cheap work jeans, shotgun shells and electronics there. I usually wear 501s, but the $15 what ever brand hold up better on a work site than Levis. The ammo is cheaper there and always a good selection, Electronic are pretty much priced the same every where, besides ten blocks isn't a very long distance to haul a big screen.  The truth is that cheaper priced goods have help maintain or raise standards of living in real terms. Our problem is debt, both present and long term projected. As for China, look for a manufacturing contraction in the near future.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Do bailouts make a company more sober in their operations? In a perfect world it would. But, Gov Motors just recalled 4000 Sonic automobiles ( I have no idea what these things look like). Seems to be a brake problem, defective?, no. they forgot to install them. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Germany has more social programs than the US has ever thought of...and higher taxes.
As of mid-1995, the policy and institutional features that characterized the development of German social policy over the last century continued to provide the overall umbrella of social policy in Germany. This has meant the continuation of separate programs for different groups in the labor force; decentralized and mostly nongovernment, self-administering bodies and private grassroots voluntary social welfare agencies; an emphasis on earnings-related individualized cash benefits determined by past contributions rather than by need; and a continued reliance on social insurance programs. For most people living in Germany, these programs have worked well and have provided a continuous expansion of coverage and improved benefits.
During the last forty years, the system favored the improvement of benefits for those with a continuous work record. For the most part, these were workers who had never left the workforce. They received earnings-related insurance benefits while other population groups tended to receive means-tested benefits or a combination of the two. Their lower wages on average mean smaller benefits because of smaller contributions into insurance programs.
Germany's health care system provides its residents with nearly universal access to comprehensive high-quality medical care and a choice of physicians. Over 90 percent of the population receives health care through the country's statutory health care insurance program. Membership in this program is compulsory for all those earning less than a periodically revised income ceiling. Nearly all of the remainder of the population receives health care via private for-profit insurance companies. Everyone uses the same health care facilities.
Although the federal government has an important role in specifying national health care policies and although the Länder control the hospital sector, the country's health care system is not government run. Instead, it is administered by national and regional self-governing associations of payers and providers. These associations play key roles in specifying the details of national health policy and negotiate with one another about financing and providing health care. In addition, instead of being paid for by taxes, the system is financed mostly by health care insurance premiums, both compulsory and voluntary.For residents of the former GDR, the era of free care ended in 1991. The political decision to adopt the FRG's health care system required the reorganization of nearly all components of health care in the new Länder . As of mid-1995, the reorganization of the health care system in the former GDR still was far from completion.
There is a huge difference between theirs and ours.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
A lot of what we consume the EPA would not allow us to make here without a big bunch of regulations, fines, fees, permits etc. Plastics and soft metals are nearly non existent in our manufacturing now as well as batteries and steel.
Ron, where are you getting this info. Pretty much EVERYTHING I have been involved with manufacturing since 1996 has been steels (procured both locally and from Asia depending customer requirements for sourcing) or other metals, and plastics. Almost everything we (and competitors) manufactured in the US for automtive electronics was housed in plastic housings, which is frankly, very environmentally friendly due to the recyclability and re-usability of these plastics. In our processes, which were pretty much SOP amongst our industry, almost every scrap of plastic that was discarded from molding processes was reground and mixed in with the virgin plastics to minimize cost impact and disposal fees. Further, all of our units that were scrapped because of defective production were sent out to be separated into plastic housing material and the various metallic sections so that they could be reclaimed. Further, despite the common belief that regulations kill jobs and industry, a recent study has disproved that. It is true that it might kill some jobs, but those are often replaced. Here are links to the study.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/regulations-dont-kill-jobs-they-create-them-2011-11-18
http://www.epi.org/publication/regulatio..._are_overblown/
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
One of my service techs works full time at a plastic manufacturer and part time in my shop.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
Do bailouts make a company more sober in their operations? In a perfect world it would. But, Gov Motors just recalled 4000 Sonic automobiles ( I have no idea what these things look like). Seems to be a brake problem, defective?, no. they forgot to install them.
As a former Ford customer, I'm shocked that GM would do this!
Of course, when I worked at a Ford dealership in Galesburg, IL back in 1991, we had a batch of Mustang Convertibles come in that the Illinois Lottery was awarding, and every single one of them came in with non-functional cooling systems. The engine was there, the radiators were there, but they hadn't put ANY of the hoses to connect the system together, and of course, no antifreeze either. What was that saying "QUALITY IS JOB 1!"
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Studebaker shipped a bunch of cars out with V8 engines that were assembled with no rings installed on the pistons.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
Do bailouts make a company more sober in their operations? In a perfect world it would. But, Gov Motors just recalled 4000 Sonic automobiles ( I have no idea what these things look like). Seems to be a brake problem, defective?, no. they forgot to install them.
As a former Ford customer, I'm shocked that GM would do this!
Of course, when I worked at a Ford dealership in Galesburg, IL back in 1991, we had a batch of Mustang Convertibles come in that the Illinois Lottery was awarding, and every single one of them came in with non-functional cooling systems. The engine was there, the radiators were there, but they hadn't put ANY of the hoses to connect the system together, and of course, no antifreeze either. What was that saying "QUALITY IS JOB 1!"
Yes, but back in 91 you could still drink in the parking lot at Ford, before and after a shift and lunch break. Now you have to leave the premises and go across HWY 69 to the union hall.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Studebaker shipped a bunch of cars out with V8 engines that were assembled with no rings installed on the pistons.
Studebaker's first automobiles were electric, guess going green didn't work out for them. I guess going fossil didn't work out for them in the very long run either.
Seriously they were fast and in many ways ahead of their times.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
A lot of what we consume the EPA would not allow us to make here without a big bunch of regulations, fines, fees, permits etc. Plastics and soft metals are nearly non existent in our manufacturing now as well as batteries and steel.
Ron, where are you getting this info. Pretty much EVERYTHING I have been involved with manufacturing since 1996 has been steels (procured both locally and from Asia depending customer requirements for sourcing) or other metals, and plastics. Almost everything we (and competitors) manufactured in the US for automtive electronics was housed in plastic housings, which is frankly, very environmentally friendly due to the recyclability and re-usability of these plastics. In our processes, which were pretty much SOP amongst our industry, almost every scrap of plastic that was discarded from molding processes was reground and mixed in with the virgin plastics to minimize cost impact and disposal fees. Further, all of our units that were scrapped because of defective production were sent out to be separated into plastic housing material and the various metallic sections so that they could be reclaimed. Further, despite the common belief that regulations kill jobs and industry, a recent study has disproved that. It is true that it might kill some jobs, but those are often replaced. Here are links to the study.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/regulations-dont-kill-jobs-they-create-them-2011-11-18
http://www.epi.org/publication/regulatio..._are_overblown/
A recent study by EPI and an editorial in WSJ, you might want to check out who is on the EPI board of directors and the WSJ editorial sites CBO, who is using suspect EPA numbers.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
The WSJ was once a great newspaper. They are no better than the National Enquirer since that Saudi prince and his Australian buddy that lives in China bought them. Just a cheap tabloid with a classy name. The Washington Post hasn't done much better.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22 |
Mac, we import 3x the amount of steel that we export. Imports actually spiked in the recession for some reason. We have the ability to make 100% of all the steel here. http://blog.al.com/press-register-business/2011/10/steel_exports_booming_at_port.htmlBatteries are a big business in Canada for assembly and finishing happens in China for the most part. I think Japan makes their own. There are existing plants for Duracell and a few others here. Too lazy to look up but Sleepy Hollow or whatever needed a big cleanup at an abandoned plant. I just go by what I see. Turn over a plastic item and look where it was made. I have a several hundred buck telescoping ladder I work with. Nice aluminum ladder "Made in China" 3 companies make telescoping ladders. Not a one of them is made in this country. I could be wrong. I hear complaints all the time that building a new factory in the U.S. is nearly impossible.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
The WSJ was once a great newspaper. They are no better than the National Enquirer since that Saudi prince and his Australian buddy that lives in China bought them. Just a cheap tabloid with a classy name. The Washington Post hasn't done much better.
WSJ is still a great newspaper, but editorials are just that,editorials. Like most newspapers the WSJ prints opinion pieces from pretty much all stripes.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Mac, we import 3x the amount of steel that we export. Imports actually spiked in the recession for some reason. We have the ability to make 100% of all the steel here.
http://blog.al.com/press-register-business/2011/10/steel_exports_booming_at_port.html
Batteries are a big business in Canada for assembly and finishing happens in China for the most part. I think Japan makes their own. There are existing plants for Duracell and a few others here. Too lazy to look up but Sleepy Hollow or whatever needed a big cleanup at an abandoned plant.
I just go by what I see. Turn over a plastic item and look where it was made. I have a several hundred buck telescoping ladder I work with. Nice aluminum ladder "Made in China" 3 companies make telescoping ladders. Not a one of them is made in this country.
I could be wrong. I hear complaints all the time that building a new factory in the U.S. is nearly impossible.
Actually it's evidently quite easy to build a factory in the USA, if you want to manufacture expensive solar panels to compete in a market that is saturated with domestic over production that has to then compete with cheaper Chinese products. If you know the right people DOE will throw cash at you.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22 |
Well, yeah, if you want to build something that won't succeed the govt. will help you do it.
But, in defense of your assertion, Toyota did build a new assembly plant in San Antonio 6 years ago.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Good for San Antonio, great city. I lived there in the early to mid 60s at Randolph Field.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
|
|
