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Ron, you are correct, Google and Microsoft didn't rise on gov't loans, but it was gov't money that paid for the research and development of the fundamental tool that created the forum that they were invented to serve, the Internet. And a lot of that gov't money was spent on the startup costs of manufacturing the original computers, infrastructure, etc... that had to be put in place first. Again, I'm not advocating that EVERY project needs gov't funding, but I've also seen where gov't funding for research AND manufacturing has been a huge boon and reaps dividends much further than JUST getting the taxpayer money paid back. Germany is an excellent example of a closely tied relationship between gov't and industry, and research institutions/universities. The universities, industries, etc... develop the ideas together, then if needed get seed money from the gov't to make the idea a reality, and often the biggest part of making an idea reality is actually figuring out how to manufacture an idea effectively and profitably, which requires a lot of capital(money). In the end, the gov't gets paid back, jobs are created, university students get practical experience, and the economy thrives. Look at how well they weathered the 2008 crash vs us. And I just saw a study done recently that the German car companies are outproducing the Big 3, paying double the wage, and staying profitable, while being union (although the relationship between German unions and companies is nothing like here, and is quite effective)

And, actually I will disagree with you on the US manufacturing being too expensive, that trend is actually starting to reverse slightly thanks to the weaker dollar. When coupled with the costs of shipping product to the US from China, and quality issues, it is starting to be more attractive to manufacture here. Hopefully we as a country are smart enough to capitalize on that!



Germany has done all those things since the 30s. They also took a huge hit in 08, 9+% unemployment, but that's no big deal, in the boom decades of the 80s and 90s they averaged over 9+% unemployment. At present Germany is at around 6.1 %, what have they done different?, austerity! Also, never forget that TARP didn't just bail out USA banks.

I always think it's a bad Idea for Gov to pick winners and losers. There's always the knowledge problem, bureaucrats never really know what's going on out in the real world. Besides people will spend and gamble with other peoples' money when they wouldn't their own. That's pretty much why we are in the mess we are in.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. H. L. Mencken