 Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Forget electric... stick with internal combustion! http://www.omichron.com/renewablecrude.html
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 340
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 340 |
I knew there was another reason I liked Shell Fish! The little buggers are keeping Woody on the road! 
I'm speeding because I have to get there before I forget where I was going.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
The Nazis were doing this, How do you think their planes, tanks etc ran after the Romanian oil fields were destroyed in 1944?  Besides, I love electric cars, You can strap your golf bag on the back and a beer cooler on the front.
Last edited by MACMC; 12/13/2011 9:40 PM.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
A couple things. The article is way off on the lithium batteries in cars. They haven't really established how long they last but it is widely accepted to be long than 10 years, not 3. Toyota has replaced less than 300 out of 20,000 that are out of their 10 year warranty.
Oil IS renewable...on a geologic scale. No new oil is being produced in Saudi Arabia on a scale that can be measured over a human lifetime. That's just stupid. If yo have a million years, or so, to wait you'll be fine.
STP was a byproduct of Nazi research.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
On a side note, in Asheville, NC, local business are stepping up to the plate and building solar recharging stations for electric vehicles. They look kinda like a city bus stop with an exaggerated roof.
All the things we see in Popular Science CAN be done. It's just a matter of will.
Asheville has replaced sodium and mercury vapor street lights with LEDs which is saving the city hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. We have lots of hybrid city buses. The progressive city council has made lots of long term investment that is saving the city tons of money. As a result of these, and other, moves the city is one of the most financially healthy in the south and a major target for new and expanding businesses.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Smokey, one problem there, oil is renewable and much faster than you state. They have had success in making oil now from an algae. They can produce quite a bit from a small area and it is a fast process. Best part is it produces real oil, I think in the next 50 years oil farms will be popping up. I don't remember the numbers but it is viable and has been in the news.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Thats a very interesting article. Plus think about the 10 year life span of the batteries thats still ten years to deal will 230 million batteries if we all converted today. Extremely toxic batteries. Not counting the already over loaded electrical systems that most states are dealing with now. All that is if we have no automobile accidents as well. We all know thats outta the question. Battery powered cars is a bull ****** idea. A pipe dream - a crack pipe dream.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
All electric vehicles have ever done is transfer the pollution from the tail pipes to the batteries and power plants. Now that global warming has been exposed as the farce it is I vote for internal combustion.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
Now that global warming has been exposed as the farce it is I vote for internal combustion.
+1
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,425
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,425 |
Quote:
A couple things. The article is way off on the lithium batteries in cars. They haven't really established how long they last but it is widely accepted to be long than 10 years, not 3. Toyota has replaced less than 300 out of 20,000 that are out of their 10 year warranty.
Oil IS renewable...on a geologic scale. No new oil is being produced in Saudi Arabia on a scale that can be measured over a human lifetime. That's just stupid. If yo have a million years, or so, to wait you'll be fine.
STP was a byproduct of Nazi research.
Interesting info on STP
http://www.stp.com/stp-and-racing/stp-history/
Ok I had to rephrase my search critera a coupple times, but here is the wiki info on bio fuels and Germany:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_fuel
Pretty interesting stuff. Lets see,,, we got the VW, the Porsch, BMW's and Bio Fuel, from WWII Germany....
If Hitler had not gone crazy and commited mass genocide of a race, and god like ambitions of rueling the world, Heck Look at the stuff that was good he commisioned.
Last edited by beamer; 12/14/2011 8:30 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Solar heavily subsidized, electric auto heavily subsidized ( and still not affordable by most), ethanol heavily subsidized. In most cities if one in ten of your neighbors bought a electric auto there would be rolling black outs. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
|
|
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
Interesting info on STP
http://www.stp.com/stp-and-racing/stp-history/
Ok I had to rephrase my search critera a coupple times, but here is the wiki info on bio fuels and Germany:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_fuel
Pretty interesting stuff. Lets see,,, we got the VW, the Porsch, BMW's and Bio Fuel, from WWII Germany....
If Hitler had not gone crazy and commited mass genocide of a race, and god like ambitions of rueling the world, Heck Look at the stuff that was good he commissioned.
Hitler was evil incarnate. The German people are not. In that context the Deutsche gave us rocketry (von Braun).
On a 'merican note: Who was it that Sting referred to and who quoted the Bhagavad Gita, "Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Deadly toys indeed.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
There has always been plenty of slanted science to back up global warming. Most have now come out and admitted it is just that, slanted to back up a point for a political stance. One volcanic eruption puts more of those gases in the air than all the gases we have produced combined since the industrial revolution. If we have produced enough to make a difference than we are screwed the next time a volcano erupts so I'll just keep on keepin' on.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Solar heavily subsidized, electric auto heavily subsidized ( and still not affordable by most), ethanol heavily subsidized. In most cities if one in ten of your neighbors bought a electric auto there would be rolling black outs.
Plus ethanol cause worse fuel milage. Ethanol production consumes huge amounts of water.
The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has accused several ethanol producers of compliance problems with air quality standards. Making ethanol industrially creates air pollutants such as volatile organic compounds, sulfur dioxide and carbon monoxide. The EPA has taken legal action against ethanol producers found in violation of the Clean Air Act.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Its easy to know if its BS or not..............If a politician backs it he's invested in it...........If a bunch of politicians back it they've figured out a way to screw us out of taxes while lining their pockets. Its Fraud.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
|
|
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3] In other words, Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
|
|
Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Wonder what kind of oil those Nazis used ?
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Quote:
Wonder what kind of oil those Nazis used ?
I don't know that but I do know how he tied his shoes.
With little Nazis. (knotzies)
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
|
|
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I can't believe I need to roll out the old, "Badump bump... tssh," twice in one week...
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
I think I'll just file away anthroprogenic climate change with evolution and 'cigarettes cause cancer' as things some people won't believe no matter what.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
I never said I didn't believe in climate change, just we are not doing it. I believe it is part of a natural cycle and the minute amount of gas we contribute comparably is negligible. But some people hold onto conspiracy theories even when the perpetrators admit what they have done.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
I'd like to say a bunch about what's REALLY going on but who am I. I will however say I agree with Ian in that climate change is real, just that we humans have very little to do with it. Now if ya wanna talk cow farts, THEN ya got something to be concerned about!
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
I never said I didn't believe in climate change, just we are not doing it. I believe it is part of a natural cycle and the minute amount of gas we contribute comparably is negligible. But some people hold onto conspiracy theories even when the perpetrators admit what they have done.
Has nothing to do with believing in conspiracy theories. It has to do with playing it safe. That light brown cloud hugging the Rockies and sitting over Denver didn't come from Mount Vesuvius. Perhaps it is natural, but I honestly believe with however many billion people, and however many billion cars, planes, powerplants, etc... in the world that you have to be kidding if you don't think we are adding to the problem. I prefer being safe, not sorry. The climate is changing, that is indisputable, the question is, what are we going to do about that? How are we going to prepare ourselves if sea levels do rise (something that is easily verifiable), or if we do see an increase in bizzare and violent weather, like we've seen over the last couple years. Further, every major player in the world is taking it seriously and is investing in technology and manufacturing focused on it, and will make money doing so, will the US just sit this wave out too, not like we're short on manufacturing jobs in the US....
By the way, yes, there was some crap going on in the UK with scientists, but NUMEROUS independent research groups and investigators have since shown that even though they were doctoring their reports, the facts that they were discussing (i.e that we're causing or worsening climate change) are completely supported by independent data. In fact, one of those studies, the Berkeley Study, was carried out by a group of climate change skeptics and ended up supporting the guys at East Anglia who were caught in ClimateGate. Their data was taken from completely different sources than the UK group, but ended up supporting the previous data.
Last edited by Bayern710; 12/15/2011 11:34 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
Thats a very interesting article. Plus think about the 10 year life span of the batteries thats still ten years to deal will 230 million batteries if we all converted today. Extremely toxic batteries. Not counting the already over loaded electrical systems that most states are dealing with now. All that is if we have no automobile accidents as well. We all know thats outta the question. Battery powered cars is a bull ****** idea. A pipe dream - a crack pipe dream.
OK, I guess it's time to wade in here. Funny, it wasn't a crackpot idea 100 years ago, now the technology is finally catching up. Second, what happens when you get a gas tank leak in an accident? Believe it or not, battery problems are taken into account during accident planning. Third, yes, batteries have nasty crap in them, so do a lot of things we already currently use and take for granted daily. A majority of the components in those batteries are nonconsumable materials, i.e. they don't deplete, and can be recovered and re-used in new batteries. Now, on we go.
One, I'll not take as gospel ANYTHING posted on a political blog. Too much spin and misinformation from all sides of pretty much any topic. With regard to electric vehicles, as some of you know I'm somewhat involved in this field as of last year, and yes, I admit, due to my job, I have a vested interest. BUT, having said that, whether you like 'em or not, they are here to stay, and will be increasing in market share, and not in 20-30 years, but sooner I suspect. Here’s my case:
1) From a power output and efficiency perspective, electrics make MUCH more sense than IC engines. We are currently producing several permanent mag AC motors, that have a VERY wide power output spectrum without a mass change. For instance, using the same motor which weighs 100lbs, we can offer our customer 100kW(134hp)-300Nm(220lbs-ft) motors, or with a software change, 135kW(181hp)-340Nm(250lbs-ft), or even higher outputs for a size increase of an inch or so in diamter (the 135kW is about 12 inches in diameter and 12-14 inches long for the housing). Our efficiency rating is 92.5%. The torque curve on those motors is pretty much 100% from 1RPM up to full speed. Just ask Chip Yates.
2) Simplicity of the system is remarkable from a mechanical perspective. All fluids are removed from the system with the exception of coolant and gear oil for the tranny. No ignition systems, nor cam systems, timing systems, etc… Granted that’s not the case from the electronics side since you’re dealing with several hundred volt power electronics, but don’t think you can buy a NEW car today that has electronics under the hood that any of us can tackle, unless you work at a dealer.
3) Battery technology is admittedly the weak link, but only from the recharging perspective, Toyota has already shown that durability is not an issue. And, frankly, with the amount of private investment going into battery manufacturing and technology development, I expect huge gains in this area with either a remarkably more efficient battery technology or something along the lines of supercaps coming along. The good news is despite all the BS on here about gov’t investment, private investment DWARFS gov’t investment, but frankly, arguing about gov’t investment is kind of baloney anyhow. Show me one new major technology that DIDN’T have a big boost from Uncle Sam. Don’t think those nuclear power plants would have become reality without the US Navy do you? “Hell no” would be the answer to that question. I know my ex-employer, Bosch, has already began dumping $170 MILLION into a joint venture battery plant in Ohio with Samsung, and Bosch is a research intense company. IF they are dumping that much into manufacturing, they are dumping double or triple that into technology development. Sadly, most of the investment is NOT being made by Americans, whether private or public, but rather by China, and Europe, while the US falls even further behind in the technology and manufacturing areas. Rest assured, the Chinese do not see electric cars as a boondoggle. Even before our product probably gets fully onto the market, they are looking for us to possibly ship our motors and controllers BACK to China for their emerging EV market. And we are just a TINY insignificant player in the field, with MUCH bigger fish out there like Michelin (look up their Michelin Active Wheel drive system), Remy (previously Delco-Remy), SIEMENS, Bosch, etc… I’ve been reading industry reports of over 200 miles on a Tesla driven frugally admittedly, and a new Opel/Michelin project is projecting 280 miles on a charge. The next big leap will be reduced recharge times, which leads me to believe it will be some type of supercapacitor.
4) Yes, you are moving emissions from millions of tailpipes to a few tailpipes. It’s much much easier to regulate and control emissions from several power plants than it is from 1,000,000 exhaust pipes. No more emissions tests. Plus, IF we are smart and develop a diverse energy portfolio, that is coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar/wind as well as small scale local production offsetting use from homes and businesses (to reduce the need for massive infrastructure improvements), and given the fact that most people would typically recharge at night, then impact on the grid would not be rolling blackouts. Plus, honestly, it will take a good decade to get THAT many vehicles on the road that the impact would be that sudden. IF we start working toward that now (and creating jobs in the process).
5) Yes, EV’s are more expensive now. Hardly ANY new technology results in lower costs immediately, that comes with increased volumes, technology improvements, etc… What was the going price of a Apple IPhone when they came out a few years back, about $4-500 I believe. They give them away now for a 2 year contract with some companies.
Time will tell, and yes, there have been false starts (as with any industry, even well established industries), but everything I’m seeing points toward growth, and not simply because of subsidies. Our company got a $45 million grant, but we had to match it with private investments, which we did in 1 ½ years.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
I really like "The Great Global Warming Swindle" documentary (I know, I know... it's a controversial title). And Greg, I hear ya man about everything you said, so please don't think I'm posting this to oppose your views, 'cause I'm not. I'm just posting some very good info on climate change for anyone that's interested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaTJJCPYhlk&feature=related
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
No Problem Keith, although it appears that there are some "inaccuracies" in that "documentary", such as his graph leaving off the last 20 years of temperature data from that NASA chart, which actually goes counter to what the "documentary" claims. Wonder why they would omit the fact that from 1880 to 1940, the change was 0.4 degrees, and from 1940 to 2000 it was a climb of 0.8 degrees (double the previous 60 years)? Here is the actual NASA chart that was used by this guy for his "documentary" (more like "doctored-mentary"): http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Depending on which method you go with, which NASA explains, the temp change from 1940-2000 was 0.6 to 0.8 degrees vs 0.4 for the previous 1880-1940. http://www.durangobill.com/Swindle_Swindle.htmlhttp://rationallythinkingoutloud.wordpre...arming-swindle/
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Ah, so you've already seen it.
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
|
|
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Quote:
Thats a very interesting article. Plus think about the 10 year life span of the batteries thats still ten years to deal will 230 million batteries if we all converted today. Extremely toxic batteries. Not counting the already over loaded electrical systems that most states are dealing with now. All that is if we have no automobile accidents as well. We all know thats outta the question. Battery powered cars is a bull ****** idea. A pipe dream - a crack pipe dream.
OK, I guess it's time to wade in here. Funny, it wasn't a crackpot idea 100 years ago, now the technology is finally catching up. Second, what happens when you get a gas tank leak in an accident? Believe it or not, battery problems are taken into account during accident planning. Third, yes, batteries have nasty crap in them, so do a lot of things we already currently use and take for granted daily. A majority of the components in those batteries are nonconsumable materials, i.e. they don't deplete, and can be recovered and re-used in new batteries. Now, on we go.
One, I'll not take as gospel ANYTHING posted on a political blog. Too much spin and misinformation from all sides of pretty much any topic. With regard to electric vehicles, as some of you know I'm somewhat involved in this field as of last year, and yes, I admit, due to my job, I have a vested interest. BUT, having said that, whether you like 'em or not, they are here to stay, and will be increasing in market share, and not in 20-30 years, but sooner I suspect. Here’s my case:
1) From a power output and efficiency perspective, electrics make MUCH more sense than IC engines. We are currently producing several permanent mag AC motors, that have a VERY wide power output spectrum without a mass change. For instance, using the same motor which weighs 100lbs, we can offer our customer 100kW(134hp)-300Nm(220lbs-ft) motors, or with a software change, 135kW(181hp)-340Nm(250lbs-ft), or even higher outputs for a size increase of an inch or so in diamter (the 135kW is about 12 inches in diameter and 12-14 inches long for the housing). Our efficiency rating is 92.5%. The torque curve on those motors is pretty much 100% from 1RPM up to full speed. Just ask Chip Yates.
2) Simplicity of the system is remarkable from a mechanical perspective. All fluids are removed from the system with the exception of coolant and gear oil for the tranny. No ignition systems, nor cam systems, timing systems, etc… Granted that’s not the case from the electronics side since you’re dealing with several hundred volt power electronics, but don’t think you can buy a NEW car today that has electronics under the hood that any of us can tackle, unless you work at a dealer.
3) Battery technology is admittedly the weak link, but only from the recharging perspective, Toyota has already shown that durability is not an issue. And, frankly, with the amount of private investment going into battery manufacturing and technology development, I expect huge gains in this area with either a remarkably more efficient battery technology or something along the lines of supercaps coming along. The good news is despite all the BS on here about gov’t investment, private investment DWARFS gov’t investment, but frankly, arguing about gov’t investment is kind of baloney anyhow. Show me one new major technology that DIDN’T have a big boost from Uncle Sam. Don’t think those nuclear power plants would have become reality without the US Navy do you? “Hell no” would be the answer to that question. I know my ex-employer, Bosch, has already began dumping $170 MILLION into a joint venture battery plant in Ohio with Samsung, and Bosch is a research intense company. IF they are dumping that much into manufacturing, they are dumping double or triple that into technology development. Sadly, most of the investment is NOT being made by Americans, whether private or public, but rather by China, and Europe, while the US falls even further behind in the technology and manufacturing areas. Rest assured, the Chinese do not see electric cars as a boondoggle. Even before our product probably gets fully onto the market, they are looking for us to possibly ship our motors and controllers BACK to China for their emerging EV market. And we are just a TINY insignificant player in the field, with MUCH bigger fish out there like Michelin (look up their Michelin Active Wheel drive system), Remy (previously Delco-Remy), SIEMENS, Bosch, etc… I’ve been reading industry reports of over 200 miles on a Tesla driven frugally admittedly, and a new Opel/Michelin project is projecting 280 miles on a charge. The next big leap will be reduced recharge times, which leads me to believe it will be some type of supercapacitor.
4) Yes, you are moving emissions from millions of tailpipes to a few tailpipes. It’s much much easier to regulate and control emissions from several power plants than it is from 1,000,000 exhaust pipes. No more emissions tests. Plus, IF we are smart and develop a diverse energy portfolio, that is coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar/wind as well as small scale local production offsetting use from homes and businesses (to reduce the need for massive infrastructure improvements), and given the fact that most people would typically recharge at night, then impact on the grid would not be rolling blackouts. Plus, honestly, it will take a good decade to get THAT many vehicles on the road that the impact would be that sudden. IF we start working toward that now (and creating jobs in the process).
5) Yes, EV’s are more expensive now. Hardly ANY new technology results in lower costs immediately, that comes with increased volumes, technology improvements, etc… What was the going price of a Apple IPhone when they came out a few years back, about $4-500 I believe. They give them away now for a 2 year contract with some companies.
Time will tell, and yes, there have been false starts (as with any industry, even well established industries), but everything I’m seeing points toward growth, and not simply because of subsidies. Our company got a $45 million grant, but we had to match it with private investments, which we did in 1 ½ years.
Keep working on the technology by all means...........Not because a farse though. Do it because you believe in the idea and in inovation. Oh and I get sick of propaganda. We don't need to be force feed we only need a product that works. I think Americans have shown through the ages that we will buy what ever gizmo that comes out. If it works it will take off like wild fire. Batteries getting better is a big deal. Cell phones batteries are better than they use to be but they still go to crap and are expensive to replace. So much so its easier to get a new phone. I'd like to see a battery powered truck strong enough to pull an equipment trailer to a jobsite each day. Or a battery powered welding machine, crane, or forklift (outdoor for construction). You see getting rid of the internal cumbustion engine is not only a matter of tinker toys to take soccer mom to the mall.
Being that construction is one of the largest industries in America ......well the world. Personal transportation is only a small amount of the petrol fuels used. I know there are Electric cranes for construction........They are not very effective for smaller jobs (anything smaller than a 5 story building). Considering that most of the construction jobs are small its a bit ineffective to bury temp power cables that require far more electricty than the building will ever require. Just tto have an electric crane.
I also don't think spilled gasoline is nearly as bad as a spilled battery. How much oil does it take to make a plastic case for a battery anyway? I say quit making plastic crap and make gasoline
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,335
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,335 |
I think climate change is happening, with most of it being just the natural cycle of Mother Earth. Does man and all our modern machinery add to it? Sure, but our contribution is very small and localized. One large volcanic eruption would probably double or triple in a few days what we generate in a year.
I remember a show on the History Channel about the Minnie Ice Age, which started back around 1400 and lasted into the early 1800's. They had a letter from a French Cardinal written in the 1300's (prior to the start of the Minnie Ice Age), and he was complaining about the quality of Wine coming from England, and how it was hurting the Wine producers in France and Italy. His complaint was that the English wine was better.
One of the main points I took from the show was that the Minnie Ice Age took almost all of Europe from a Grape based to a grain based alcohol society, which is why America is more into Beer drinking than Wine. So, when England starts making better Wine than Beer I will know we are getting as warm as it was back in the 1300's. Until then we have a ways to go.
Tom
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
Quote:
No Problem Keith, although it appears that there are some "inaccuracies" in that "documentary", such as his graph leaving off the last 20 years of temperature data from that NASA chart, which actually goes counter to what the "documentary" claims. Wonder why they would omit the fact that from 1880 to 1940, the change was 0.4 degrees, and from 1940 to 2000 it was a climb of 0.8 degrees (double the previous 60 years)? Here is the actual NASA chart that was used by this guy for his "documentary" (more like "doctored-mentary"):
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/
Depending on which method you go with, which NASA explains, the temp change from 1940-2000 was 0.6 to 0.8 degrees vs 0.4 for the previous 1880-1940.
http://www.durangobill.com/Swindle_Swindle.html
http://rationallythinkingoutloud.wordpre...arming-swindle/
Greg, it does not matter how much proof you put out there. It questions a belief system and no amount of evidence will change that. 
Take my advice and just file away anthroprogenic climate change with evolution and 'cigarettes cause cancer' as things some people won't believe no matter what.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
One day when fed up with studying at the University of FL main library, I went to the magazine stacks and pulled old ones to browse through. One of the striking things I came across where articles outlining how we should dust the polar ice caps with carbon in order to help warm up the world. Huh? I read that WAY before Al Gore and his mumbo jumbo...
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
We may contribute a small amount but the greater increase in change is due to the increased volcanic activity in recent years much much more than anything we could ever do.Have to admit I haven't read what was posted since my last post, way too much to get in before work. I'll read over it when I get a chance later and if I see anything that changes my opinion I'll be happy to post as such. Do we pollute our environment? Absolutely Do we do harm to our air quality and drinking water? Absolutely Do we put enough green house gasses into the atmosphere to make an appreciable difference in global climate? In my opinion and from what I have seen and read, No.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1
Bar Shake
|
|
Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
So then what cause do you attribute to the melting polar ice caps, melting glaciers and rise of the oceans? http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Good points Chad. I'll add one more to that... the military which is the biggest consumer of carbon based fuels. I can't see running the military on batteries. Or here's another one... air transport. Battery powered 747s? Nope... this whole electric/battery thing would have it's place but only for a small percentage of energy needs.
We tend to think in terms of 'business as usual'... yet I wonder if reducing our glutinous need to have and do everything might just help a bit towards a cleaner world.
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: Fill 'er up, go green!
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,730 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,730 Likes: 5 |
Keith, you make a good point bringing up the military use of fuel. I saw first hand the absolute waste and inefficiency of fuel while I was in. I drove tanks that got 1 mpg some that got 3 mpg, some that got up to 10... even the trucks get horrible mileage. And when we didn't drive them, we had to go to the motorpool daily and let them at 1500 rpm run for hours...
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
|
|
|
|
|
