 Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103 |
New stupid problem:
Took the bike for a 40 mile each way trip, today. The whole way there, ran like crap. Got to my destination, took care of business, went to gas station.
Gas cap wouldn't come off. Seized to the point the whole thing unscrewed from the tank; peeling the paint in the opening with it; leaving paint flakes in the opening and, most likely, the gas. I was able to refuel, but still have the issue of the gas cap is completely stuck in the structure that connects the cap to the tank.
The way back, the bike ran much better.
I'm guessing the issue may be old gas (was out of SeaFoam at last fillup) combined with massive fluctuating of temperatures. The last time I completely refuled was early October; and it was warm, 80's. Since then, the temp has gone from 25-90 a few times. Today was 50 when I left.
(The bike only got 40 miles since the last fillup in October; mostly a bunch of 2-3 mile trips in town, riding in all kinds of temps/weather).
The fresh gas seemed to burn better.
I presume the expanding and contracting of the gas cap inside the structure is what seized it.
Any ideas on how to get this unstuck? Thus far, I've managed to bend a pair of needle-nosed pliers and scratch the outer ring with a nice deep gouge, cussed a lot, and still have a very stuck gas cap.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
What do you mean the whole thing unscrewed from the tank? Did you force the spigot that the cap screws into, out of the tank? If so, be prepared to solder it back on and repaint the tank.
Oh and make sure you get someone who knows what they are doing before they perform the welding on the GAS tank.....
I can't imagine how the cap would seize to the fill spigot other than through varnish build up or maybe some rust but....
Got any pics?
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Sounds like the top part (chromy bit) came lose from the threaded bit and that bit is still stuck in the filler bung? I dunno. Weird.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
My guess is he has the HD cap Brent sells and the cap seized to the insert. Never had that happen to mine but I only tighten mine enough so I can open it with my fingers. Worst thing there is that paint is going to cause problems clogging the petcock strainer, hidden filter if still in place and carbs.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
My guess is he has the HD cap Brent sells and the cap seized to the insert.
That's what I'm thinking... it doesn't sound like the stock cap to me. I have the flush mount Kuryakyn cap and it can be difficult to unscrew at times, and once or twice the whole cap plus insert had come out on me.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
The tank pulled a vacuum, and it ran poorly.
You vented it the hard way.
It ran better on the way home.
Problem diagnosed.
I think,
Uncle Charlie
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103 |
Here's some pics:    Hopefully, this can clear up some of the confusion.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103 |
I've never had this issue before and only tighten it almost "hand tight". Just a hair past where I can get it with my fingers. Rust may be the issue....not sure, yet. Another thing, I have a large, inline fuel filter before the petcock; should catch anything that fell into the gas tank. I can pic it if anyone is interested. Here: 
Last edited by nikerret; 11/30/2011 11:35 PM.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Yup Cory, that's what I thought... you have the same Kuryakyn cap as I have. You have nothing to worry about... just screw the insert back in as tight as you can possibly get it, then hand tighten the cap back on and you are set. As far as that flaking paint goes, it's the same thing on my bike. You should be okay though... there is a very fine screen filter inside the tank on the petcock assembly, plus you've added your own inline filter, and past that there is something we call the 'hidden filter' which is down by the carbs where the line splits into two.
So, I doubt you have anything to worry about as far as the cap goes. However, your bike ran poorly before you removed the cap at the time you filled 'er up. I'm pressed to say you may have a blockage in the tank breather line and the reason I say this is because once you opened the cap, it seems the tank was relieved of negative pressure allowing fuel to flow freely to the carbs and your bike ran properly.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
I've never had this issue before and only tighten it almost "hand tight". Just a hair past where I can get it with my fingers. Rust may be the issue....not sure, yet.
Another thing, I have a large, inline fuel filter before the petcock; should catch anything that fell into the gas tank. I can pic it if anyone is interested. Here:
In my previous post I mentioned the possibility of your tank developing a negative pressure (vacuum) caused by blockage in the tank breather tube. If this is true, removing the cap would be more difficult. I'd be inclined to check that line to make sure it is breathing properly.
As for the inline filter you installed after the petcock, it's a great idea and gives you added assurance that no debris gets through to the carbs.
One day when you have the time, drain the tank of fuel and remove the petcock so you can check the screen filter for debris. Ya never know... it may be clogged by the flakes you mentioned.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103 |
Quote:
Yup Cory, that's what I thought... you have the same Kuryakyn cap as I have. You have nothing to worry about... just screw the insert back in as tight as you can possibly get it, then hand tighten the cap back on and you are set. As far as that flaking paint goes, it's the same thing on my bike. You should be okay though... there is a very fine screen filter inside the tank on the petcock assembly, plus you've added your own inline filter, and past that there is something we call the 'hidden filter' which is down by the carbs where the line splits into two.
So, I doubt you have anything to worry about as far as the cap goes. However, your bike ran poorly before you removed the cap at the time you filled 'er up. I'm pressed to say you may have a blockage in the tank breather line and the reason I say this is because once you opened the cap, it seems the tank was relieved of negative pressure allowing fuel to flow freely to the carbs and your bike ran properly.
The "hidden filter" is gone; I just use the inline.
My problem is getting the cap out of the inert. It's completely stuck.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103 |
Quote:
In my previous post I mentioned the possibility of your tank developing a negative pressure (vacuum) caused by blockage in the tank breather tube. If this is true, removing the cap would be more difficult. I'd be inclined to check that line to make sure it is breathing properly.
As for the inline filter you installed after the petcock, it's a great idea and gives you added assurance that no debris gets through to the carbs.
One day when you have the time, drain the tank of fuel and remove the petcock so you can check the screen filter for debris. Ya never know... it may be clogged by the flakes you mentioned.
You're right, the filter is after the petcock; embarassed I missed that...I put it on.
This bike has always had breathing issues. I've had to move the tube end around based on what way the wind is blowing; took a year and a half of frustration to figure that out.
Good idea on draining the tank; probably a bunch of crap in there that needs cleaned out after eight years and 13.5K miles.
Any idea on how to get the stuck gas cap out of the insert?
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Any idea on how to get the stuck gas cap out of the insert?
Know any plumbers? They have some trick tools for removing broken pipes that regular tools won't touch.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Wow... so it's really that stuck! I'm starting to think penetrating oil. Do you have the 'key' that comes with that cap? If not, it could really help in separating the cap from the insert.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 103 |
I have two keys, one of them broke in trying ot gdt the cap off at the gas station. I'm down to my backup key.
I wasn't exagerating when I said, "seized".
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Maybe try setting the unit in boiled water... not so it's immersed, but just so the outer part (the insert) is heated up by the water. It may expand enough to let go of the cap?
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Soak the whole thing in a little diesel fuel or kerosene, that should free it up. You could pop it in the oven if not the fuel and get it good and hot to expand everything, that would probably free it up too. If you do the latter don't forget to wear gloves as it will be hot!  There is a screen on the inside of the tank to keep dirt out of the petcock that could become clogged if much paint went in the tank. An intermittent venting problem could be a tip over valve sticking. Try taking that out of the loop and check to be sure the vent tube is not pinched where it comes out of the tank if the tank has been removed and replaced. Easy to get that over the mount instead of under and pinch it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
That's the same Kuryakyn cap I have. I bet you got it so tight that it killed it's venting capabilities and that's the answer to your running crappy. I'm with Ian here, a little soaking or maybe some gentle heat should free that puppy up. And you need to add an inline filter after the petcock for insurance.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Seized Gas Cap
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
when putting it back on those allen head screws around the outside edge come out. The cap came with 2 brass castle screws you screw in across from each other and use a screwdriver or similar straight bar to tighten it. (I used a plastic coated handle on a pair of pliers to avoid any scratching) You could get a couple screws from the hardware store to use in order to do the same thing.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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