 Gas pump question
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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How much gas is there in the hose and nozzle plus the pump back to the valve that separates the different grades? I asked the attendent who is an engineering student at Carleton U. but he didn't know. As most people use regular and it is recommended we use a higher grade how much or the cheap stuff (relatively speaking) am I pumping at a higher price before I get the good stuff? The tank isn't that big so a few litres will tip the balance quickly. Maybe I should bring my lawn mower with me and fill it up first. 
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 537
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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All our petrol bowsers in Australia have individual nozzles. 
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847 |
I've often wondered the same thing 
Warren
04 Caspian Blue and Silver America
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Wait at the pump until someone purchases premium..... 
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 387
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2007
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Less than a pint is in the pump lines, says my mechanic.
Sono qui per la birra
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
According to the American Petroleum Institute the gas-pump hose typically retains about one third of a gallon of fuel. WSJ: Does Fuel Get Left in the Gas Pump Hose?
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
There's no "higher grade" or "cheap stuff", it mostly comes in to the distribution (tank farm) as just plain old gas, then the basic 87 is enhanced with retarders to raise the flash point. It's a marketing ploy to call 91+ octane "premium". A compression ratio of 10:1 or higher needs a retarder so's the mixture won't pre-ignite. The small amount left in the hose is of no consequence. I've inadvertantly filled up with 87 with no adverse affects, or pre-ignition pinging. Yeee!!!! Another GAS thread ! 
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
Quote:
There's no "higher grade" or "cheap stuff", it mostly comes in to the distribution (tank farm) as just plain old gas, then the basic 87 is enhanced with retarders to raise the flash point. It's a marketing ploy to call 91+ octane "premium".
Sounds credible to me. The lowest grade available here in Oz is 91ron (which I think is equivalent to your 87 in the USA). I found no consumption or performance difference between regular and premium. I believe Triumph recommend regular unleaded (91ron) for our bikes.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,425
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,425 |
I have run all 3 grades. So what I do now is use reg, and add one oz of this http://www.lucasoil.com/articlelist1-30/0/LucasSafeguardEthanolFuelConditionerbike runs great and longer b4 I go to Reserve. I average 70-80mph and dont try to ride for best milage.
Mal: "Y'all see the man hanging out of the spaceship with the really big gun?{ref, Jayne} Man's lookin' to kill some folk. So really, it's his will y'all should worry about thwarting."
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
They used to want mid grade, now I am not sure what they recommend for the 865s. I have put regular in by mistake and had no pinging either. The rating is, as stated above, the fuels resistance to pre-ignition not a rating of quality.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
I average 70-80mph and dont try to ride for best milage.
That's gotta be a record! 
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Octane ratings mean only one thing. Resistance to preignition, usually recognized as pinging or knocking. That resistance is needed more as compression ratios rise. Most natural gasoline is usually maxed out at 87 octane. I'm told there is a theoretical max of 100 octane without additives but I'm not sure of that. Aircraft fuels have octane ratings up to 145 to protect the engines with higher compressions. The old tetraethyl lead used in gas was to increase the point at which gas would preignite. Using higher octane than required for the engine that is burning it is a complete waste of money. My bike knocks a bit with 87 octane but 89 seems ok. I usually get the 91 octane because all the local 89 has ethanol which reduces my mpg 5-10%
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
I average 70-80mph and dont try to ride for best milage.
That's gotta be a record!
No kidding.....
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
makes ya miss tetraethyl lead.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I average 70-80mph and dont try to ride for best milage.
That's gotta be a record!
No kidding.....
Uhhh , that's mpH , not mpG . Get yer reading glasses out . 
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
The power of suggestion....  It was all Keith's fault..... 
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
The power of suggestion....
It was all Keith's fault.....
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 538
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2010
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I run 90 non ethanol . About $3.99 a gal I can live with that.
Are we there YET? I gotta go pee!!
08 SpeedMASTER, Black and Red!
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,301 Likes: 65
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
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Well Allrighty Then  I can hear that spare changed jingling in my pocket already.
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
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Quote:
I run 90 non ethanol . About $3.99 a gal I can live with that.
Same here, but I pay around $4.15. I also run it in my '90 Dodge (318) and the improvement in mileage makes it cost efficient.
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,669
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,669 |
Not sure if you guys know of Matt Capri, but hes the guy I bought my bike from, he said anything higher than 87 is just wasting money, I've nevr had any problems at all. (related to fuel type anyway)
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,301 Likes: 65
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
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So if the higher octane does not make any difference why would I have to fill up on drive from Ottawa to St. Catherines on regualar but could make it all the way with lots of kms to spare on high test (as they used to call it)? So this was in a Mazda 3 Whats the difference with Triumph motorcycle?
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Octane (rating) as has been mentioned, has nothing to do with the performance or energy potential or quality of the fuel.
It is a rating of resistance to ignition.
That's it.
Nothing else.
Period.
Now, in engines that are tuned for higher performance the added ignition resistance is necessary to obtain peak performance from the engine. Without sufficient octane rating the fuel will ignite too early, often just from the heat of compression or the retained heat in the combustion chamber.
In the case of many modern automobiles, I know that my Toyota Tacoma 4X4 is one, the electronic engine control will adjust the timing (over-advanced timing is another cause of pre-ignition and again, higher performance engines use more ignition advance than standard), advancing it for higher performance. They have "knock sensors" that detect pre-ignition and it adjusts the timing accordingly. So by using higher octane fuel in modern automotive engines you can get better performance and sometimes fuel economy.
Some bikes have similar electronics. Ours don't.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
I wonder if the apparent variations in fuel consumption between the octanes could actually be explained by other factors altogether ... one of the fuels was carrying a higher percentage of water or contaminants? After all - these were not lab tests and we've all picked up a load of dirty fuel at one time or another - especially just after the service station's holding tanks have just been filled.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Quote:
I wonder if the apparent variations in fuel consumption between the octanes could actually be explained by other factors altogether ... one of the fuels was carrying a higher percentage of water or contaminants? After all - these were not lab tests and we've all picked up a load of dirty fuel at one time or another - especially just after the service station's holding tanks have just been filled.
There is some very questionable gasoline s, as to overall quality, around. Added Ethanol and it's propensity to virtually suck and assimilate humidity has a lot to do with it. I'm willing to pay extra, when I find non-ethanol fuel available. It may not be solid science that my cars and bikes run better on straight gas, but the mileage I gain and seemingly better performance is definitely worth paying a little extra for. 5 weeks ago, I installed one of Erle s sediment bulb/filters, and I have already found water in the trap. Drill Baby Drill and feed that corn to somebody hungry is my vote.
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 537
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 537 |
Quote:
There's no "higher grade" or "cheap stuff", it mostly comes in to the distribution (tank farm) as just plain old gas, then the basic 87 is enhanced with retarders to raise the flash point. It's a marketing ploy to call 91+ octane "premium". A compression ratio of 10:1 or higher needs a retarder so's the mixture won't pre-ignite,:
Sorry to dissagree with you Wade. I ain't no oil expert but I am an oil worker and in the Shell refinery I work at, the manufacturing process for our hi- octane V-Power is totally independent to the manufacturing process for our low obtain fuels. But as long as readers are happy with the fuel they are using that's all that matters really.
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,301 Likes: 65
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,301 Likes: 65 |
Quote:
I wonder if the apparent variations in fuel consumption between the octanes could actually be explained by other factors altogether ... one of the fuels was carrying a higher percentage of water or contaminants? After all - these were not lab tests and we've all picked up a load of dirty fuel at one time or another - especially just after the service station's holding tanks have just been filled.
Again not very scientific but this drive was done at least 1/2 dozen times a year(both directions) and results were noted. But back to the Triumph engine well if makes little difference I like the extra jingle in my jeans.
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
Ok ... the results over multiple journeys would minimise the bad fuel scenario. I would like John to elaborate on the Shell V-Power and what he thinks it might contribute to performance. It is being actively marketed here as a performance enhancer (more ooomph).
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,425
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,425 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I average 70-80mph and dont try to ride for best milage.
That's gotta be a record!
No kidding.....
Uhhh , that's mpH , not mpG . Get yer reading glasses out .
No Wade I ment what I said. If you read the whole story I mentioned I used to go to reserve around 120 miles on the trip meter (while my normal ride speeds averages 70 to 80 mph) and have to go to Res. I started putting the Lucas in my tank and gainned 15 to 20+/- MPG while still averaging 70 to 80 MPH. I usually average 47 to 52 MPG depending on weather conditions, age of plugs (which I change out way more frequently than needed), and air filter cleanliness. 
Lucas Or Stable are worth the extra cost to me.
Mal: "Y'all see the man hanging out of the spaceship with the really big gun?{ref, Jayne} Man's lookin' to kill some folk. So really, it's his will y'all should worry about thwarting."
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I average 70-80mph and dont try to ride for best milage.
That's gotta be a record!
No kidding.....
Uhhh , that's mpH , not mpG . Get yer reading glasses out .
No Wade I ment what I said. If you read the whole story I mentioned I used to go to reserve around 120 miles on the trip meter (while my normal ride speeds averages 70 to 80 mph) and have to go to Res. I started putting the Lucas in my tank and gainned 15 to 20+/- MPG while still averaging 70 to 80 MPH. I usually average 47 to 52 MPG depending on weather conditions, age of plugs (which I change out way more frequently than needed), and air filter cleanliness.
Lucas Or Stable are worth the extra cost to me.
Does that mean Keith and I aren't really that old????  We really don't need reading glasses? It wasn't really the power of suggestion.......
That still has to be a record then? D'oh
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,425
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,425 |
Maybe being TX, its all flat. Dunno but I was keeping steady records between reg, super and mid ethonal non ethonol with or w/out additive. When I get some good weather and time Ill run my test again. guessing next spring.
Mal: "Y'all see the man hanging out of the spaceship with the really big gun?{ref, Jayne} Man's lookin' to kill some folk. So really, it's his will y'all should worry about thwarting."
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,726
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,726 |
I used mid-grade as Triumph recommended for the first few years. Changed to hi-grade after the BB kit was added. It seems to get marginally better MPG. I suppose with a 10:1 compression ratio, it's kind of iffy between mid and hi. Before the BB, I could get by with regular occasionally, but it doesn't run well on it now. One of the reasons may be the 10% ethanol I can't avoid now. Can find any local stations that sell non ethanol fuel. Got some in NC and noticed I got 10% better fuel economy riding through mountains!
Bob
2005 America, 904cc - sold. 2014 Trophy SE.
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
If you are willing to can it, Marinas have non PC buellshit gasoline.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
I stay away from ethanol.I use 95 ron.Occaisonally 97ron but that doesn't seem to make any difference, so I stick to 95 usually
I was riding a 600 honda a while back and had to fill up with 10% ethanol.
The bike ran like treachle.10% less milage and seat of the pants feel 10% less power.
!0% ethanol.Anyone see a 10% pattern here?
I agree with Ryk.Drill more and use land to grow stuff to feed people
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Gas pump question
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3 |
Might as well throw this back up; Quote:
I found this site today www.pure-gas.org.
Not a complete listing, but a starting point for finding ethanol free gasoline in the US and Canada.
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