 chain installation question
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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OP
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Is there enough room between the frame and swing arm to install a chain without a master link?
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Do you mean a continuous chain like the factory one?
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
To install a continuous chain without breaking it you have to remove the swing arm.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
That's kinda what I was getting at. 
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Oh.......then spit it out.....cat got your tongue..... 
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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OP
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Sorry I was at work and not thinking clearly. I forgot about the pivot point for the swingarm.
(Duh too much on my mind right now. I guess I should just go to bed.) Thanks for the wake up.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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OP
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
I guess the real question is. can I get one with a real masterlink, or are they all press together with the cahin tool? I don't have a chain tool I wonder if there are any DIY methods for doing it that dont require the tool?
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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OP
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Hold the back up with a larger hammer?
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
Or lay it on the flat part of a vise, or an anvil.
Actually, I was kidding around.
Uncle Charlie
P.S.
When all else fails,
GABH (get a bigger hammer)
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,284
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,284 |
Quote:
I guess the real question is. can I get one with a real masterlink, or are they all press together with the cahin tool? I don't have a chain tool I wonder if there are any DIY methods for doing it that dont require the tool?
Clip type master links are available for our 525 x-ring chains as well as rivet style. I have the tool which goes for $60 to $160 depending on quality, but the dealer only had the clip type, about $10. I ended up pulling the swing arm since it was time for a tire anyway. I wouldn't hesitate to use a clip type if I had to.
Strangler
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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OP
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Or lay it on the flat part of a vise, or an anvil.
Actually, I was kidding around.
Uncle Charlie
P.S.
When all else fails,
GABH (get a bigger hammer)
The hammer idea will not work or what? I was going to try it I have done other chains like that. (equipment chains)
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
I have been running a clip style master link in a stock chain. Rode it to Fl and back.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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OP
Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Thats what I may do then .
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
Just in case you have never used a clip style link before, the open end of the clip should be away from the direction of travel.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Quote:
Just in case you have never used a clip style link before, the open end of the clip should be away from the direction of travel.
Never heard that before, good to know.
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
Quote:
Just in case you have never used a clip style link before, the open end of the clip should be away from the direction of travel.
Never heard that before, good to know.
What... didn't they teach ya that in Millwright school (kidding)? Seriously though, Ryk... in your experience as a Millwright have you ever seen a clip type master link fail? I've used them often on a m/c and never had a problem.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
I've used them as well, on bikes, pedal and motorized, never seen one fail. to tell the truth. They are not used in industrial apps. generally though. Just never heard of the directional thing.
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
I've used them as well, on bikes, pedal and motorized, never seen one fail. to tell the truth. They are not used in industrial apps. generally though. Just never heard of the directional thing.
I've never known on to fail either... they seem to be reliable. (And once again... just kidding about the Millwright school thing.  )
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736 Likes: 7
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736 Likes: 7 |
my master link is just fine
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Quote:
Just in case you have never used a clip style link before, the open end of the clip should be away from the direction of travel.
"Fish swim upstream" is what my buddy says. I'll probably go with a clip on my next chain, that tool is a PITA.
Al
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Hmm, just flipped through a "CycleGear" catalog that showed up yesterday. They have a Stockton Chain Breaker & Rivet Tool kit for $30 with other purchase: http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L1=&L2=&L3=&L4=&item=PRC_L35-247  Looks pretty decent, seems to sell for $89 elsewhere. I wonder if they let you do two for $30. Anyone want in on one?
Al
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Hmm, just flipped through a "CycleGear" catalog that showed up yesterday. They have a Stockton Chain Breaker & Rivet Tool kit for $30 with other purchase:
http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L1=&L2=&L3=&L4=&item=PRC_L35-247
Looks pretty decent, seems to sell for $89 elsewhere.
I wonder if they let you do two for $30. Anyone want in on one?
Looks like my $100 Motion Pro set 
'cept for the box color.
It has a tool for installing the clip type on o-ring chains too. A big help since you need to keep the ring compressed if you choose to use the inferior method.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
They are not used in industrial apps.
There's a reason for that. 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
I bought the set, didn't buy anything else and it was still just $29 ($36 delivered). Quote:
Quote:
Hmm, just flipped through a "CycleGear" catalog that showed up yesterday. They have a Stockton Chain Breaker & Rivet Tool kit for $30 with other purchase:
http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L1=&L2=&L3=&L4=&item=PRC_L35-247
Looks pretty decent, seems to sell for $89 elsewhere.
I wonder if they let you do two for $30. Anyone want in on one?
Looks like my $100 Motion Pro set
'cept for the box color.
It has a tool for installing the clip type on o-ring chains too. A big help since you need to keep the ring compressed if you choose to use the inferior method.
Al
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
Quote:
Quote:
They are not used in industrial apps.
There's a reason for that.
Don't know what that reason could be the drive chains on the winches on my wrecker are all master links,none of them are riveted so you can adjust them. I mean every link in both chains too not just 1 link in each chain and those drive 12,000 lb worm drive winches power by a 300 hp small block 1/2 and full links too. I have also used clip style links in my chains for close to 40 years of riding and the only chain failure I had was the master but a riveted link.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
I've seen several clip failures, dirt bikes mostly. Never had a riveted master fail. Yeah, on chains that run in harsh conditions - sand, mud, concrete, etc. links are the rule; for quick changing. Those chains fail to abrasion often enough to warrant a faster method of replacement. On applications where the chain is subjected to heavy loads, clean and well lubricated, clips aren't found just because the endless chain is stronger. On our bikes a clip link is probably fine. I just prefer a more positive lock. Besides, I like tools 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
Are you saying the drive chains on my wrecker don't see a heavy load? I bog down a 300hp small block and have lifted the front of my 9,000lb truck off the ground pulling with a snatch block anchored low on the ring on the bed. I have also pulled 1/2" steel core wire rope in half. I have never had a drive chain failure, not once. Like I said in a motorcycle application I have ridden both dirt and street and I have never in 40 years seen a master fail just the factory riveted links after a long time of wearing. I think there is less chance of a clip link failure than a rivited one if both are installed correctly.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
I think there is less chance of a clip link failure than a rivited one if both are installed correctly.
How so Ian? Not that I dispute your statement... only that I'd like to hear why you think the clip link is less likely to fail.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
When I say industrial applications, I'm talking gas and steam power generation, paper and pulp mills, mines, lumber/ steel mills etc. ad nauseum. the chains that are still used, are generally endless and the adjustment is achieved by moving the drive motor or gear reduction bases. Any splicing is done by hot riveting if done at all. Usually sh!tcan the old, install new. It costs $$$ to shut down equipment unscheduled with hired production hands doing nothing. Chain clips are for the lightweight stuff like robot arms and small conveyors. And I've still never seen one (clip) fail, did I mention that? BTW, belts have replaced most chain drives
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
Now hot riveting is a whole different ball game.
Keith, I think that because there is little side force on the chain and you can see the clip located in the slots correctly where as the amount a riveted pin is expanded is harder to judge as well as the depth. You know the side plate in in far enough on a clip style link if you are able to locate the clip in the slot, the same can not be said for a riveted link, you can not have the side plate located deep enough and still expand the end of that pin enough for it to hold for a while. I don't think a correctly installed riveted master will fail any more than a clip type but in my opinion clip location is more sure than rivet expansion and side plate depth on the riveted link.
I also know I run 2 chains ( one to drive each of the 2 12,000lb winches) on my wrecker that consist of nothing but clip style master links and the chains on our bikes, no matter how hard you beat the bike ,will ever see the loads put on those chains and I have been running the same chains for the last 20 years, only replaced the sprockets because they wore loose on the pillow block shaft.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
I have to agree with you Ian in that with a clip link, if you get it right you get it right. With a riveted link you might THINK you got it right, but it may not be so. In other words... for the average rider, who installs a master link MAYBE once every second or third blue moon... the clip link is a good way to go. My last chain used a riveted link... I had my Millwright friend help out for added assurance 'cause I mean... I've done it maybe twice in the past, and my past is getting pretty long now!
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Are you saying the drive chains on my wrecker don't see a heavy load? I bog down a 300hp small block and have lifted the front of my 9,000lb truck off the ground pulling with a snatch block anchored low on the ring on the bed. I have also pulled 1/2" steel core wire rope in half. I have never had a drive chain failure, not once. Like I said in a motorcycle application I have ridden both dirt and street and I have never in 40 years seen a master fail just the factory riveted links after a long time of wearing. I think there is less chance of a clip link failure than a rivited one if both are installed correctly.
What I'm saying is that the rivet is stronger.
Also what I'm saying is that it probably doesn't matter on these bikes due to the low power, comparatively speaking.
Your inference that I am stating that a clip is weak is incorrect.
If someone feels uncomfortable with their ability to properly install a riveted link, then they should definitely use a clip.
Though they may not be too confident in their ability to properly install a clip link either.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
Sorry Bill ,I did indeed think you were saying the clip was weak.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 184
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 184 |
Rivted link strength is approx. 95% of the chain strength, clip type links can be as low as 70% of the chain strength. That would be why you do not see many clip type master links in industrial applications as they are the weak link. The DID Chain sheet the link is for has a blurb on master link strengths. http://www.didchain.com/chainTools.html
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Sorry Bill ,I did indeed think you were saying the clip was weak.
Cool. I'll have to have a drink with you........  ....... wait a minute. You don't drink 
Ok. I'll have two  
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
I'm betting with the low horsepower of our bikes, you won't have an issue with either one (unless you don't do the rivet correctly). If you are running a Hyabusa at the drap strip, you probably want the rivet type. I wonder what type of connection the old guys used on those double-motor Triumph/Harley drag bikes? Quote:
Rivted link strength is approx. 95% of the chain strength, clip type links can be as low as 70% of the chain strength. That would be why you do not see many clip type master links in industrial applications as they are the weak link. The DID Chain sheet the link is for has a blurb on master link strengths. http://www.didchain.com/chainTools.html
Al
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
" belts have replaced most chain drives"
On my bike anyway, some others also.
I like mine, and am happy with it overall.
Uncle Charlie
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Stockton kit showed up yesterday. Thats a nice set for $30.
Al
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Re: chain installation question
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
I gotta get me one of those.
Live to love, love to live.
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