 First valve shim check
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Seems I always have a question. I'm getting ready to do my first valve shim check on my 06 America, it's 3,000 miles late but I finally have time to do it. I do have a couple of questions though. I used the rear tire to align the lines and dots on the camshaft gears and the "Top" is at the top on the camshaft drive gear. My first question is how critical is it to remove the alternator cover to align the mark on the rotor with the crankcase mating surfaces? My second question is are the crankshaft holder bolts (torx) extremely tight? I do have a hand held impact to use but am worried about cracking something if I use it. As always I look to the experience and knowledge of you guys and gals for the right answers. Thanks for any help.
'06 America, Raask foot controls, the bike use to be Graphite and Silver, now its Red and Black.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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First get a really good Torx set , impact if you can. Be4st to get a couple of the size you need as they are tough to get out. I put the bit in the bolt head with a 6" extension and gave each one a couple taps with a hammer before I took them out and all mine came out OK. I did break one bit in the process though.
As for the rotor cover on the right side of the engine. I haven't removed one yet. I did just as you described. Set the timing marks on the cams with the marks on the drive gear and the "Top" at the top. Don't move the engine while the cams are out just to be sure. Put back together with the new shims with the marks lined up again and you will be fine.
Don't forget to use the pins to hold the back lash gears. If the pins come out you need to re-tension them.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: First valve shim check
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In the Haynes repair manual it says to lubricate the new shims and follower with molybdenum disulphide oil, what ever that is. Is it ok to just use the same motor oil thats in the bike?
'06 America, Raask foot controls, the bike use to be Graphite and Silver, now its Red and Black.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Is it ok to just use the same motor oil thats in the bike?
Yep... that's what I do.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Oct 2010
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I wouldn't mind having a go at checking my valve shims . How many miles is the recomended time due ?
(kilometres in Australia)
Does this site have any pictures like in a workshop manual or will I just have to seek one out .
Thanks for any help.
Peace in the country when the sun goes down , the corn is gettin' high
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Re: First valve shim check
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07 SPEEDMASTER ..SLASHCUT BUBS..
NOLOGY COILS/WIRES ..PHANTOM BLACK ..CHROME COVERS...K&N PODS..
BEAUTIFULL WHEN SHE RUNS RIGHT..SHE WAS ..
.. I LIKE HER>> ALOT ~~
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
In the Haynes repair manual it says to lubricate the new shims and follower with molybdenum disulphide oil, what ever that is. Is it ok to just use the same motor oil thats in the bike?
With all due respect, I think I'd do exactly what they suggest. They have probably researched it in their R&D labs.
I DO know that you would NEVER install new lifters/cam in a V8 and put motor oil only on the cam lobes! That HAS been PROVEN to be a cause of severe, early wear.
What are you going to save? $3.95-$9.95?
Maybe even $15!
(Remember what happened to valves (int/exh) that needed lead in the gas, when unleaded came out? I do.)
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,690
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Feb 2006
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Wow, did I ever learn this one the hard way....Put my cams in wrong, engine would turn, but then "stop". My buddy hit the starter and bent all 4 exhaust valves (some of you may remember that)..On my wife's bike, a 2005 America, I removed the cam cover, and simply "loosened" the cam bosses, not taking the bolts all the way out, that way, I could pick the cam up just enough to get my magnet in to remove the shim that needed replacing, the cams never even had to come out. Install new shims after calculations, re-tork, and wah-lah...DONE. Did'nt even replace the gasket for the cam cover....Personally, I would'nt even bother with the thing if it was running good and not rattling more than usual...Just my 2 cents...
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Re: First valve shim check
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Personally I'd use some sort of assembly lube at the contact point(I like Lubri Plate assembly lube) using straight motor oil will cause premature cam wear. Not a serious issue given the 16,000 mile valve adjustment interval and the fact that most bikes wont have more than 4 or 5 adjustments over their useful life but an issue none the less.
As far as not worrying about it if it's not making excessive noise........ bad idea. Exhaust valves work into the seat and actually loose clearance over time while (no noise) intake valves will loosen up or gain clearance over time (these make the noise). Eventually the exhaust valves will recess into the seats to the point that they will not fully close, then you end up with burned exhaust valves and a hefty repair bill.
JMHO
Outside a dog a book is a mans best friend, inside a dog it's to dark to read.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
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Mine are super overdue... part of what I'll address this winter!
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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I'm due this winter at well, did it twice previously.
Label everything. I use separate zip-loc bags for each cam.
I made my own tensioner pins, cost me $3.
I just used motor oil to lube. I guess that I didn't read the shop manual carefully enough.
Engine is quiet at 38k, hopefully stays that way.
Al
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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I use assembly lube but I always have that around from rebuilding other engines.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
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I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
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Just a couple of points to remember when doing the job.
Don't mix up the bearing caps.
Make sure they go back the same way they came off.
FrankW
Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
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Quote:
Just a couple of points to remember when doing the job.
Don't mix up the bearing caps.
Make sure they go back the same way they came off.
Thanks Frank. Any tips are valuable to me 'cause I'm about to adjust the valves for the first time on my bike!
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228
I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228 |
Quote:
Quote:
Just a couple of points to remember when doing the job.
Don't mix up the bearing caps.
Make sure they go back the same way they came off.
Thanks Frank. Any tips are valuable to me 'cause I'm about to adjust the valves for the first time on my bike!
Keith, When you loosen the bearing caps do it slowly and evenly or you can do damage to the cam.
When you replace the cams you do the same, tighten them up evenly.
If you look in thr Haynes manual they give you the right sequence, also I think with a diagram.
It's a very simple job to do if you take your time. If you do it over your winter you should have plenty of time. Six months at least. 
FrankW
Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
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Quote:
If you do it over your winter you should have plenty of time. Six months at least.
Oooo, you bad, you really, really bad!!!  But the tips you offer make up for it so I guess you are forgiven!! 
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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Is there a detailed writeup with pics on how to do the valve check/adjust out there somewhere?
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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All I know is that my shop charges 65 bucks to do it, and that makes it more than worth it to me!
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
Joined: Oct 2010
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My shop is 113 miles away through the middle of a 6 million person city. I want to do my own valves.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
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Once I get out of St. Louis, only 30 miles of Illinois farmland for me to the shop  and they give me loaners
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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I might even let them do it if it's only $65. I spend that in gas and shim cost when I do the job not to mention the time it takes.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
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Hey, they gotta eat too! I try to support small business when I can.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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The last time I did mine it cost me $70 for the shims including shipping. Even at $65 I'd still do my own though. Frank.....don't start....  It snowed today and my bike is sitting in the driveway with the cover on. I'm hoping for 1 more weekend before it is parked. You lucky.....#*^%(*@!
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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65 bucks to do the valve check/adjust?
My dealer charged me 180 for the first oil change.
I checked and adjusted the valves after doing research
here.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5 |
Well, the labor was $65, the 4 bolt seals were 18 more dollars
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228
I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228 |
Quote:
The last time I did mine it cost me $70 for the shims including shipping.
Even at $65 I'd still do my own though.
Frank.....don't start.... It snowed today and my bike is sitting in the driveway with the cover on. I'm hoping for 1 more weekend before it is parked.
You lucky.....#*^%(*@!
Sorry Greg and Keith, I couldn't resist. 
After seeing the pics that Keith has posted I envey you 2 some of the time, when it snows, No thanks. 
FrankW
Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228
I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228 |
Quote:
All I know is that my shop charges 65 bucks to do it, and that makes it more than worth it to me!
My local stealer who is also the Hardley dealer charges $80 an hour labour.
Thats why I do my own maintenance. 
FrankW
Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Adjunct
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Confused. When I took off the oil feed pipe to remove the camshaft there was a crush washer right under the bolt head but none under the oil feed pipe that contacts the head. When looking at the diagram on BikeBandit they show a crush washer both on top and under the oil feed pipe. Was there suposed to be one under it when I took it off?
'06 America, Raask foot controls, the bike use to be Graphite and Silver, now its Red and Black.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228
I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228 |
Quote:
Confused. When I took off the oil feed pipe to remove the camshaft there was a crush washer right under the bolt head but none under the oil feed pipe that contacts the head. When looking at the diagram on BikeBandit they show a crush washer both on top and under the oil feed pipe. Was there suposed to be one under it when I took it off?
I found the same thing the first time I did mine. They are actually copper washers.
When you look in the Triumph parts manual it only shows 2 in the diagram. In the parts listing it says there are 4.
I went to my local brake centre and bought 4 copper washers and put them on both sides of the pipe where it connects to the cam bearing cap.
Last edited by FrankW; 10/21/2010 7:10 AM.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Man, you guys are lucky. The last Triumph dealer in Orlando charged $85 an hour for all makes EXCEPT: $99 for Triumph/Ducati  Maybe THATS part of the reason they'er no longer here. Can a dealer do it in only one hour? I'd have thought it would be like 2-3 hr. flat rate charge!
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
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They told me the most it would be is for 2 hours, but usually just one.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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If you have the shims available and have done it before, you should be able to do it in 1 hour, but why rush. I bet you Dinqua does it in 4 beers. 
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Quote:
Man, you guys are lucky. The last Triumph dealer in Orlando charged $85 an hour for all makes EXCEPT:
$99 for Triumph/Ducati
Lexington motor sports, my nearest dealer, has the same labor rates, the local dealer I worked at charged $75/hr flat rate.
Outside a dog a book is a mans best friend, inside a dog it's to dark to read.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228
I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228 |
Quote:
If you have the shims available and have done it before, you should be able to do it in 1 hour, but why rush.
I bet you Dinqua does it in 4 beers.
Is this allowing for:
Jacking up the bike.
Removing the seat.
Taking off the fuel tank.
Moving thr coils because they are in the way.
IMHO. Gonna be a rough and ready job in 1 hour.
FrankW
Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
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Knowing me it will be a two or three day job, but I will have learned something AND be able to do it in much less time in the future.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228
I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228 |
Quote:
Knowing me it will be a two or three day job, but I will have learned something AND be able to do it in much less time in the future.
Keith, Take it from me, it is a simple job.
Don't rush it and you will find it quite easy.
The last shims I got were from the local bike wrecker because none of the local bike dealers keep them in stock. (Even then I got them on a part exchange basis so I still have no spare shims) I was fortunate that he had them after sorting through a box of shims with a set of callipers.
Have you got the Haynes manual, the instructions in that are quite good?
FrankW
Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
Have you got the Haynes manual, the instructions in that are quite good?
I do Frank, and I believe I'll be fine. Heck... even if it takes 2 weeks, who cares? There's plenty of time before April!
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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I haven't had to remove the coils.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228
I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228 |
Quote:
I haven't had to remove the coils.
Ian, On my 2004 Speedy if I dont move the coils the cam cover won't come off. 
FrankW
Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Frank,
I just removed the coil wires. Like Ian, I had enough room to remove the cam cover without taking the coils out.
Keith,
If you can get the shims from a Honda or Yamaha dealer, they are a lot cheaper. I purchased mine a Triumph dealer and they were $10 each (ouch).
I've pasted the info from the tech vault, Parts Cross Reference Section to help.
Valve Adjustments [Re: bennybmn]
#98534 - 05/04/06 11:45 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Valve Adjustments:
Yamaha Shims for the V-Max are direct replacements for Triumph shims.
SOB shims
25mm Used in Honda ('79--'83 4-cylinder CB750, 900, 1000, and 1100 series engines, and 1050 CBX 6-cylinder engines, and others), Yamaha (V-Max, and the FJ1100/1200 series), Triumph 3- and 4-cylinder liquid-cooled motorcycle engines, and older Toyota car engines.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Check your Yamaha dealer before going in. A huge DC-area dealership looked at me like I was an alien when I asked about the shims. Apparently that dealership just orders what they need. I guess they are not doing V-max valve jobs that often....
Al
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56 |
Quote:
Quote:
I haven't had to remove the coils.
Ian, On my 2004 Speedy if I dont move the coils the cam cover won't come off.
2004 SM and 2004 BA here and I don't pull the coils, it is tight though and would make it easier if I did.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228
I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
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Hi Greg, I must be doing something wrong. I can't get the cam cover off without moving the coils. Is there a way of getting it off that I don't know about?
FrankW
Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56 |
If removing the coils works for you then no reason why you can't do it that way. Just saying that I don't, that doesn't make your way wrong.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Nope Frank, You're doing nothing wrong. It would probably be easier to remove the coils but after working in the auto and heavy equipment industry as a mechanic for 18 years before getting into management in 1988, I always tried to get the most done with the least amount of work. If I am set up, I can have the bike jacked up, the seat, tank and cam cover removed in less than 10 minutes. Remember, there are only 2 bolts for the seat and tank, a fuel line and 4 bolts for the cam cover ro remove. My cam bearing caps are all numbered with a center punch so there are 12 torx bolts along with 2 oil line banjo bolts to remove. Stick in the anti backlash spring pin retainers and go. The biggest job is fishing out the shims from the buckets. If I was on flat rate, I could do it but since it is being done for pleasure, I take my time and enjoy. BTW, my wife complains that I caress the bike more than I do her......go figure
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228
I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
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Quote:
BTW, my wife complains that I caress the bike more than I do her......go figure
We have the same problem. 
FrankW
Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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I have worked in the auto industry for many years as well Gregger, and I have also trained myself to disassemble as little as possible to do any given job.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Me, I'm a leftover parts - "where the heck does THAT go" guy. Glad to know that it's only a 1 hour job.
I've recently ordered some parts from the local Yami dealer and am having him rejet and dyno my bike. We'll see how that works out.
3+ years and I'm still ticked at my Triumph dealer's horn/brakelight diagnosis. I just can't let it go.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Steve, I wouldn't count on it being a "One hour job". I KNOW it won't be for me. If I finish in a short day, and it's SUCCESSFUL, I'll be happy! 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,465 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,465 Likes: 2 |
I'm still a few thousand away - which means I should be out riding more, right? 
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Fellows,
The whole point for saying it can be done in an hour is just that....it can be done if you are familiar, have all the tools, parts and nothing breaks while removing. If it your first time, plan on an afternoon.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
I looking forward to doing the valve adjustment myself. I've Gained a lot of confidence from you guys saying it's not too tough added to all the tips I've read here on the subject. And believe it or not... I'm gonna work on the carbs too for the first time. I'm enjoying getting more and more familiar with my bike from a mechanical pov. Couldn't o' gained the confidence without this site, that's for sure.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56 |
Hardest part of the valve adjustment for most has been getting the screws out of the bearing caps. Have more than 1 torx bit at your disposal. I only needed 1 but I am an experienced mechanic. Also DO NOT over tighten the banjo bolt for the oil feed to the cams that will break easily. Keep everything clean and I use a permanant sharpie to number the bearing caps and put and arrow on each pointing forward before removal to ensure they go back on the same place and way. DO NOT take the marked shim thickness for granted use a micrometer on every shim, both the old coming out and the new going in to be sure of the thickness. DO NOT use vaneer calipers. Intake and exhaust cams are different too so be sure they go back the same way in the same places. Once you have the new shims in and cams all tightened down make sure the sparkplugs are either out or at least disconnected and spin the engine a few times then check your clearances again.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228
I live in the sun downunder
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I live in the sun downunder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,228 |
Quote:
Steve, I wouldn't count on it being a "One hour job".
I KNOW it won't be for me.
If I finish in a short day, and it's SUCCESSFUL, I'll be happy!
+1. Better to be safe than sorry Erle.
FrankW
Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
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Re: First valve shim check
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Appreciate the info Ian... thank you!
Live to love, love to live.
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