 Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
My '02 has 39k on it. I replaced the plug wires a few years ago, with some Nology wires. I put new plugs in annually.
Today I rode about 250 miles for work. On the 115 mile ride out, I had no issues. The bike sat for a few hours, than I restarted and gassed up. Than restarted and rode about 7 miles. Without warning, I lost all power and backfired a bit (still had lights). I was going about 65 mph at the time and leaning into the power up a pretty good incline I coasted to a stop, hit the starter and it fire right up. It did the same thing about 3 miles later.
I than rode another 100+ miles with no issues. I went thru a small PA town, started up a pretty steep, long hill at around 40 mph and it did the same thing twice. Refired both times immediately, than no issues for the 40 or so miles home.
Does this sound like the infamous ignitor?
Last edited by ssjones; 10/07/2010 7:21 PM.
Al
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Symptoms are most likely electrical, with CDI and pick up coil suspect.I would pull the seat and tank and check every electrical connection and the sidestand and kill switches too.
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
I checked the pick-up coil gap last year, it was OK.
Besides checking my sidestand and kill switch assemblies, is there a checklist or "how to" to trouble-shoot the CDI or pickup?
I did put on a new kickstand spring last year, it was weaking and causing the bike to cut off. This was a very different shut-down than experienced by just the kickstand lowering. Prior to shutting off, it stuttered a lot, than back-fired before shutting down completely. (this all in a span of a few seconds)
I was definitely nervous the rest of the way. Most of the route was on winding, single-lane, guardrail only, no shoulder Rt 30. Cutting off with traffic behind me and no shoulder would have been interesting.
Al
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Troubleshooting this kind of intermittent problem is a major pain in the butt. If you cannot see anything obvious with the wiring such as a frayed wire grounding out, loose connection or get lucky and find a defective switch I'd replace the CDI unit unless you can get a good used one to replace yours with to test.
That's assuming you actually found a good way to check the pickup coil. You mentioned that you checked it (gap) last year. Did you measure the resistance across the coil both warm and cold?
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 13
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 13 |
I know your bike has some miles but HEY are we riding a PINTO, unsafe at any speed. I have a 04 Speed Master that stopped on a low speed turn without warning. You would think Triumph Corp. would be investigating the problem to prove they stand in front of their rides, whether or not it is a warrantee issue.
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
No, I only checked the gap. So, guess it could be that as well. I guess at 40k, this was bound to pop up. I'm close to Snekepte, maybe he and I can swap some components over the winter downtime. Quote:
Troubleshooting this kind of intermittent problem is a major pain in the butt. If you cannot see anything obvious with the wiring such as a frayed wire grounding out, loose connection or get lucky and find a defective switch I'd replace the CDI unit unless you can get a good used one to replace yours with to test.
That's assuming you actually found a good way to check the pickup coil. You mentioned that you checked it (gap) last year. Did you measure the resistance across the coil both warm and cold?
Al
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 33
Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 33 |
Change your coils, the Gill coils get weak over time and don't send enough juice to the plugs and the cdi shuts the engine down. Buy the nology ones. that will stop the problem.
If at first you do not succeed, get a bigger hammer!
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Quote:
Change your coils, the Gill coils get weak over time and don't send enough juice to the plugs and the cdi shuts the engine down. Buy the nology ones. that will stop the problem.
Too much lawn work yesterday, no time to troubleshoot. I'll probably get new coils no matter the problem, these OEM's have to be getting old.
Al
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
When Friar gets done with my proven coils, I'll see if he can ship them to you...if you can wait that long.  
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
At least test the coils before assuming they are the cause.
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
At least test the coils before assuming they are the cause.
How do you go about that?
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
The test procedure is spelled out in the Haynes manual.
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
The test procedure is spelled out in the Haynes manual.
Well, so it is. Thanks Ken!
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Quote:
Quote:
The test procedure is spelled out in the Haynes manual.
Well, so it is. Thanks Ken!
Ditto on that, I just read my electronic copy. I'll try those resistance tests in the next few nights. I put it up on lift today, removed the kickstand switch and re-greased it and the connector under the tank. It looks OK, but I didn't run the check also described in the Haynes manual. I'll do that procedure as well.
Al
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823 |
Quote:
My '02 has 39k on it. I replaced the plug wires a few years ago, with some Nology wires. I put new plugs in annually.
Today I rode about 250 miles for work. On the 115 mile ride out, I had no issues. The bike sat for a few hours, than I restarted and gassed up. Than restarted and rode about 7 miles. Without warning, I lost all power and backfired a bit (still had lights). I was going about 65 mph at the time and leaning into the power up a pretty good incline I coasted to a stop, hit the starter and it fire right up. It did the same thing about 3 miles later.
I than rode another 100+ miles with no issues. I went thru a small PA town, started up a pretty steep, long hill at around 40 mph and it did the same thing twice. Refired both times immediately, than no issues for the 40 or so miles home.
Does this sound like the infamous ignitor?
this is what my 02 did this summer also when coming back from canada..this summer..it was bad gas ran some 93 in the tank it all went away..
Ed 
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,680
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,680 |
Does not sound at all like my ignitor experience. I would run some sea foam and see what happens.
Thom
I might be wrong, I sometimes am.
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
He can have them now. I don't think there's anything wrong with mine. I put another 80 miles on my bike today, all original parts, no rain. Ran flawlessly. Do you think rain could affect the coils too or just the CDI? 
Last edited by FriarJohn; 10/11/2010 12:21 AM.
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Let me run these checks, not sure I need these yet. I'll top off with some 93 before riding to work today, see what happens. Hopefully get into the garage this evening to do some checks. Quote:
He can have them now. I don't think there's anything wrong with mine. I put another 80 miles on my bike today, all original parts, no rain. Ran flawlessly. Do you think rain could affect the coils too or just the CDI?
Al
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
...Do you think rain could affect the coils too or just the CDI?
...
I suppose. But in the connections more than the unit. Say the connection worked loose. Water could gain egress and arch out the connection. Coils primarily die from age/heat yet the age of death is usually/should_be longer than the life of the motor. That said, Vera Lynn had a bad coil. When CDIs and coils act up, they both can exhibit the same symptoms. Witness Cinnamon Girl and her Procom CDI. She had the same symptoms as Vera Lynn did when Vera had a bad coil. After I re-installed the oem ignitor on CG, the symptoms cleared up. And I now have two extra coils. 
I'll PM Al then get back with you about shipping the test parts.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
I put some 93 octane in this morning and rode the bike for 60 miles today. Not a hiccup. Maybe it was the gas, I had just filled up at a PA Sheetz.
I'll still test my coils tomorrow evening, I want to get familiar with that process, the coils are bound to take a dump sooner or later (probably sooner with 40k).
Al
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
Quote:
Or bad gas?
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Sounds more like poor fuel delivery. If the problem were rain soaked electrics, it would take a couple minutes to restart after the engine heat dried it all out. If the ignition module were failing, it would probably not restart for several minutes after it cooled down.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Quote:
Quote:
Or bad gas?
Bad gas from the Sheetz!? 
I'll bet! 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Ran out of time to test the coils the other evening (in a hotel in NJ this evening). I hopped on the bike for a quick run for dinner Tuesday evening. It backfired once and shut down, I refired before the bike slowed down much. I think the bad gas would have been run out or diluted to this point? Hopefully get a chance to test the coils on Sat.
Al
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Update: I've ran the bike another hundred miles with no problems. Today I tested the coils with my digital multimeter. The readings seemed to be in factory specs, what are your thoughts? Here's the Primary circuit reading. Factory spec is 6 ohms. The photo is of the left side. It bounced around between 4-6 ohms. The right went between 6-7 ohms.  Here is the Secondary circuit reading. Factory spec is 15 k-ohms. I didn't know how to get my multimeter to read in k-ohms. But the smaller scale on the bottom seemed to indicate at the 14 scale?  The kickstand switch had no resistance, so it seems to be fine.
Al
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Coils can check out ok and still be junk. The tool that measures them under load is what you need. But then again you could buy a dozen+ coils for the price of that tool.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Ignitor??? or other?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Quote:
Coils can check out ok and still be junk. The tool that measures them under load is what you need. But then again you could buy a dozen+ coils for the price of that tool.
Well, haven't had a hiccup for over 100 miles, keeping my fingers crossed. I guess they have to fail at some point.
Another odd thing happened that may be related. I have a micro-garage opener mounted near my key switch (momentary switch goes to the Genie remote). I have noticed that this summer, with the bike just started, when I hit the opener to close the garage door, it kills the bike. I thought it was my imagination, but it slowly became 100% consistent over the summer. A few weeks ago, it would kill the bike as I was riding up to open it after a ride (bike completely warmed up). After completing the testing today, that symptom has disappeared.
Of course the remote was in no way connected to anything on the bike, but somehow it was causing interference in the ignition system. Am I crazy?
Al
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