 Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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OP
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Ok... Take a deep breath... let it out slowly... whatever... here it goes... I am tired of people saying that they are upgrading, trading-up or graduating to the T-Bird from a Speedmaster or America. Getting a T-Bird is NOT an upgrade. I am tired of asking me if I am going to upgrade, trade up or graduate to a Thunderbird. It is a totally different bike. I love my Speedy. Getting a T-Bird would not be or never would be a better bike for me. It is almost quite insulting to even suggest that it is an upgrade. Personally, I do not like the bike, I don't care for the looks or how it rides (I like that motor). Saying that someone graduated to a T-bird is even more insulting. It's not like the Speedmaster or America is a little Honda Rebel 250 or something. If you get yourself a T-Bird, just say that you found a bike that fits you better and you like it better. It's that simple. It, however is not an upgrade that you trade up to or you finally finished kindergarten and are graduating too like our bike are little training bikes. So, stop insinuating that it is a superior bike, and those of us that love the looks and ride of our Americas and Speedmasters are somehow completely inferior, because we're not. rant over (mostly) 
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Learned Hand
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I'm hearin yah Soren. I hate that too. The T-bird just looks like a jap bike to me and each to their own but it dosn't have the class of Americas and Speedmasters. I also like the Bonnevilles and Thruxtons cause they are in the cool group for me. If I wanted a fast bike I would probally go a Rocket3 anyway, but it wouldn't be an upgrade, it would just be different. 
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Bill.
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
-George Best
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Nice rant Soren. I'm with you. I love my America. 
08 America
Rinehart exhaust, Clearview shield, Viking bags and magic carb's
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Nice rant Soren. I'm with you. I love my America.
Speedmaster fer me.
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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Sorry if I rubbed anyone one the wrong way
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Learned Hand
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Hey no offence taken my friend.  I am sure you did not mean it that way but you can see how much we all love our rides. Besides, everybody is entitled to my opinion. 
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Aug 2010
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I'm right there with you brother. In fact i got mad at a buddy a couple of weeks back because he asked me the question, "So when are you gonna upgrade?" my response was " Upgrade what, my pipes?".To me there is no upgrade, I have my dream bike. I don't need a bigger displacement engine to compensate for anything, inflate my ego, or for the most futile reason ever, to try and convince some Harley rider that I have a better bike. An America/Speedmaster is not a Sportster that you trade in/sell to get a bigger bike because all the cool kids are picking on you. To me it's the only bike.
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Quote:
Ok... Take a deep breath... let it out slowly... whatever... here it goes...
I am tired of people saying that they are upgrading, trading-up or graduating to the T-Bird from a Speedmaster or America. Getting a T-Bird is NOT an upgrade. I am tired of asking me if I am going to upgrade, trade up or graduate to a Thunderbird. It is a totally different bike. I love my Speedy. Getting a T-Bird would not be or never would be a better bike for me. It is almost quite insulting to even suggest that it is an upgrade. Personally, I do not like the bike, I don't care for the looks or how it rides (I like that motor). Saying that someone graduated to a T-bird is even more insulting. It's not like the Speedmaster or America is a little Honda Rebel 250 or something. If you get yourself a T-Bird, just say that you found a bike that fits you better and you like it better. It's that simple. It, however is not an upgrade that you trade up to or you finally finished kindergarten and are graduating too like our bike are little training bikes. So, stop insinuating that it is a superior bike, and those of us that love the looks and ride of our Americas and Speedmasters are somehow completely inferior, because we're not.
rant over (mostly)
GEEEZ!!! Okay, okay Soren, we get it!
(...however, that OTHER ever-present question still remains: When are you gonna get a "REAL bike"...a Harley-Davidson??????) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Oil Expert
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My thoughts exactly. In my mind the T-bird is a long-distance freeway cruiser - to heavy for the twisties and urban riding. I got all the adrenalin surging power I need in the America and I like nimble and (relatively) light.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
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Having read the post about your topic, the thought was like, "Okay, But why get upset?" Plenty of things already that do that for us. For those that choose to use those 'g' words, perhaps they are/were in the wrong classroom/grade from the get go. Simply enough.
That said, I 100% agree with ya Soren.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I do not believe in upgrades... only additions 
Thom
I might be wrong, I sometimes am.
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Soren,
I did just that! After 25+ years without a bike I took the motorcycle safety course and bought a Honda Rebel 250 to hone my limited skills. After 17 months and just over 4000 miles I felt ready for a change. I went to the guy that taught my MSF course and asked his advice on a larger bike.
He said to get a Triumph America, I would never regret it. 6 months and 7000 miles later he was right. Mine does qualify as an "upgrade" and the little Honda was a good reliable choice for my needs. I'm 64 and the America,2009, has been written into my will for my sons in 15 or 20 years!
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I agree with Soren completely. When I went shopping for my bike in March 2002, my friends (Harley types) had that "starter bike" mentality, probably because of Harley's scam, er scheme, of selling sportsters as starter bikes with the upgrade deal to a dyna or whatever after two years. But here I am, 8.5 years later still on the same bike. Now the Rocket III Roadster, NOW THERE'S AN UPGRADE.
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Now the Rocket III Roadster, NOW THERE'S AN UPGRADE.
I was talking to a dealer the other day about a leftover R3T (I am so, so close to pulling that trigger) He said
"If a Speed Master and a farm tractor got frisky, the offspring would be a Rocket III" 
Thom
I might be wrong, I sometimes am.
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Nice rant Soren. I'm with you. I love my America.
+1
Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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I hear what you're saying Soren. I think it comes from the "bigger is better" concept. Of course, if someone does put the money down for a new bike, I would hope that they believe it is an upgrade for them. Along these lines, my dad's (who is average size but has short legs) first street motorcycle was a Honda CB 350. He liked it, but "upgraded" after a few years to a Nighthawk 650. This was a perfect bike for him, and he liked riding it. But after a few years he decided he wanted to upgrade, so he got a Honda CBX. Super nice bike, but it was just too big and heavy for him to handle safely. He dropped it at a standstill at least twice, and eventually he just stopped riding it. It sat in his garage for years until he sold it for almost nothing a few years ago. I really think he would have spent a few more years riding (and enjoying it) if he had just kept the bike that fit him right instead of looking for an upgrade. If the America/Speedmaster is your perfect bike, keep riding it and don't worry about what anybody else is saying. Dang, I hadn't thought about that for a long time...now I wish I had bought that CBX from him before he sold it. I rode it one time, and it was an absolute beast. Fit me pretty good too...  Will
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Yep Will, you've hit it smack dab on the head with your "bigger is better" theory here. I ONLY reason I can think of as to why people would mention the words "upgrade" or "graduate" in regards to this issue is because of the increase in displacement between what is nowdays considered a "mid-size" motorcycle(our BAs and Speedies) and the T-Bird and/or the "Big Twin" Harley-Davidsons and/or the "Metric" Cruisers. (...but then again, the average American seems to have "upgraded" in size these past few decades TOO, haven't they???!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Ok... Getting a T-Bird is NOT an upgrade. ... It is a totally different bike ... It's not like the Speedmaster or America is a little Honda Rebel 250 or something. If you get yourself a T-Bird, just say that you found a bike that fits you better and you like it better. It's that simple.
Very well put. My Speedy is my first bike... A few months ago, I started getting the "upgrade" itch... tried a few things on for size and found that I'm already on the bike that fits me best. It's that simple. What fits you and your needs. The T-bird or R3R for that matter wouldn't be an upgrade for me. It would be about the equivalent of the childless couple who gets the 12 seat SUV (sorry if this is you, but it's true): more than I'd ever need or use, just for the sake of having it.
2003 Speedmaster
Red/Black
FREAK, AI removed, Emgo Shorties, NH Peg relocation, Progressive suspension (front and back).
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Banned
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Banned
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The one I demoed was like jumpin off a thourough (my tba) and onto a plowhorse. The tbird is quite simply just a limey harly. I have always thought that it was suck a shame that they took the tbird and harlyed it down for the sheeple.
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
I ONLY reason I can think of as to why people would mention the words "upgrade" or "graduate" in regards to this issue is because of the increase in displacement between what is nowdays considered a "mid-size" motorcycle(our BAs and Speedies) and the T-Bird.
That's what I thought too. why get upset about it.
The only area I can think of the Bird as an upgrade is in long-distance touring capabilities (less stressed engine, bigger gas autonomy, more planted etc.).
Plus an engine size which is closer (power-wise) to what some of us considered ideal e.g. 1200cc.
I like both for different reasons and my Speedy's long-distance touring days are over (as many here know, it has served me well).
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Loquacious
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I don't need a bigger displacement engine to compensate for anything, inflate my ego, or for the most futile reason ever, ...
Cute.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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My Speedy's long-distance touring days are over (as many here know, it has served me well).
I hope you will still ride it to the Euro Rally next year!!
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Well said, Thanassis! Yep! The ONLY "upgrade" that Mr.Bloor should have done YEARS AGO for these BA's and Speedies would have been to also offer an "upgraded" factory BIG BORE(once again Mr.Bloor, IF you're reading this, I said BIG friggin' BORE here, SIR!!!) option for their "mid-sided" Bonneville line at maybe a displacement of that 1200cc which you mentioned above, WHICH could and SHOULD have been available to ALL potential customers at the time of the original purchase from the DEALER!!!! H*LL!!! What kind of friggin' "logic" is it that you now offer a factory 1700cc "Big Bore" option for the already large displacement 1600cc T-Bird, and YET, those of us who have always appreciated what we have always felt is a perfectly proportioned and sized, but somewhat slightly underpowered, "mid-sized" displacement cruiser continue to go wanting???!!! DO IT, you friggin' MORON!!! H*LL, the friggin' COTTAGE INDUSTRY/AFTERMARKET has been makin' AND sellin' these for YEARS NOW, and it looks like you have NO IDEA how many people have passed on purchasing a friggin' Bonneville(and that would be in ALL it's many variations) because they feel it's "too small"!!!!! GET IT????!!!!! These are otherwise BEAUTIFUL MOTORCYCLES which are only "let down" my their somewhat WEAK ability in PASSING POWER!!!! Oh yeah, and your choice in CHEAP-AZZ suspension units for 'em, TOO!!! (...now THERE'S ya a friggin' RANT, Soren!!!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Quote:
My Speedy's long-distance touring days are over (as many here know, it has served me well).
I hope you will still ride it to the Euro Rally next year!!
That one falls into the "short ride" category.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Interesting topic...in the circles in which I mix cc is seen as best.My response is to tell them that my age I no longer feel the need to have the biggest **** in the car park.
Paid a visit last Sunday to the Indian Motorcycle club rally in Sussex(lil olde UofK,that is)where there was no such nonsense spouted-just a genuine interest from fellow riders.
Must be a moral in there somewhere.
Al
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Yep! The ONLY "upgrade" that Mr.Bloor should have done YEARS AGO for these BA's and Speedies would have been to also offer an "upgraded" factory BIG BORE(once again Mr.Bloor, IF you're reading this, I said BIG friggin' BORE here, SIR!!!) option for their "mid-sided" Bonneville line at maybe a displacement of that 1200cc which you mentioned above, WHICH could and SHOULD have been available to ALL potential customers at the time of the original purchase from the DEALER!!!!
Dwight.
Bear in mind that the only reason the Speedy and America exist are because of the Bonneville engine. Had the Bonnie not come back into production, we all would never have met.
It would appear that Mr Bloor considers the current displacement of the Bonnie is adequate for a retro/classic and has invested heavily on a totally new platform for cruisers.
One that, probably in his eyes, has a future both sales-wise and in terms of emissions regulations etc.(like it or not, this is reality).
Hence the Bird with an engine platform that will be usable for decades, while at the same time filling a much needed gap in it's model line-up.
As air-cooled, our bikes are solidly engineered, which is why we seldom (if at all) hear of any engines blowing.
I suspect that in Bloor and co's eyes, extending the displacement would be stretching the current reliability threshold.
Why invest any further resources into that?
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: May 2010
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....I suspect that in Bloor and co's eyes, extending the displacement would be stretching the current reliability threshold.
Why invest any further resources into that?
Sorry ol' buddy, but I believe your "alibi" for Mr. Bloor and Co.'s refusal to have ever created a "Super Bonnie" or maybe a "Bonneville S" model does not hold up to scrutiny. I believe this because from reports I've read here on this website who have gone the Big Bore route, and also from talking with those I've met who went the B/B route during the time I was hanging around South Bay Triumph in CA, where Matt Capri has become that very example of the "Cottage Industry" I mentioned in my previous post, that vast majority of those I've encountered have experienced little if any decrease in reliability afterward.
However, granted, my "complaint" is now almost a decade old, and you are most likely correct with thoughts that the future of these air-cooled engines is or will be reaching it's end very soon, due primarily to an air-cooled engines' difficulty in achieving tightened air quality standards in that future.
Once again, my major "complaint" has always been that Mr.Bloor and Co.'s business plan to build the Bonneville line "to a cost" only, and disregarding their potential performance gains(in order words, making them ONLY, from the factory, "nice looking mid-sized retro-styled machines, built to as low an initial cost as possible") has relegated them ONLY as such, when there has ALWAYS been much more potential for them to be more than just that.
(yep...all these years the Bonnies could possibly have been closer to the "fire-breathing" road machines that they were named after, which, back in the day, one could walk into any Triumph shop and purchase straight up from the factory)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I hate it too. Just because my condoms are TWICE as big as others, doesn't make me "THE MAN"!...  , Hmmm, bad example. 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
While I don't necessarily agree with everything Mr. Bloor has done (disclaimer out of the way), I have the humility to recognize that he has way more business chops than I do and that constantly second guessing the way he runs his business is pretty dammed unproductive. That will have to wait until I'm retired like certain others... (Okay, D2, fire away, and be sure to use lots of CAPITAL LETTERS.) 
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
BTW, Dwight, what do you want me to do with your old Dwight(1) account? Want access again? Want me to change the email so you can reset the password? Want me to delete it? Nah, I wouldn't delete it. Don't want to lose all your gems from the past 5+ years...
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
While I don't necessarily agree with everything Mr. Bloor has done (disclaimer out of the way), I have the humility to recognize that he has way more business chops than I do and that constantly second guessing the way he runs his business is pretty dammed unproductive. That will have to wait until I'm retired like certain others...
(Okay, D2, fire away, and be sure to use lots of CAPITAL LETTERS.)
Nah, I won't fire away at ya, John. You actually made a whole lot o' sense there! 
(...but yeah, like you said, you just wait until YOU are a cranky ol' retired S.O.B. like me with way too much free time on your hands, and then maybe you'll see just a little more of where I'm comin' from...kid!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
That's why we keep you around, Mr. Argo. Every site needs a crank. 
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Adjunct
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BTW, Dwight, what do you want me to do with your old Dwight(1) account? Want access again? Want me to change the email so you can reset the password? Want me to delete it? Nah, I wouldn't delete it. Don't want to lose all your gems from the past 5+ years...
Man! You sure throw that word "gems" around pretty easily, John!
Yeah, I guess I'd maybe like to go back to usin' the old account.
WAIT A MINUTE!!! Are you tryin' to make sure "Dwight2" doesn't reach that "Magic 1000 posts" so you don't have send me my thousand bucks?????
Uh huh! You ALMOST got me there, didn't ya dude!!!
(actually, Judie and I were just leavin' for dinner, and so, yeah, do what ya gotta do to get this old fart back to his original account...thanks!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
While I don't necessarily agree with everything Mr. Bloor has done (disclaimer out of the way), I have the humility to recognize that he has way more business chops than I do and that constantly second guessing the way he runs his business is pretty dammed unproductive.
I agree, his success speaks for itself. While other mc manufacturers sales are going down Triumph sales keep going up. He is systematically targeting each class and going after the competition. So love it or hate it, like someone else said, Triumph needed the T-bird to compete with the other 1600-1700 cc crusiers out there. I happen to love it. I didn't really upgrade I just got something different and I am still a fan of the classic looking America/Speedmasters also.
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I really don't like much of anything about the Tbird except the displacement. That doesn't mean it isn't a great bike just that it isn't for me. I love my SM and will ride it until I wear it out then probably BB it along with the rest of the rebuild. It does annoy me a little too that people tend to say upgrade or trade up or graduate to a Tbird. It is like saying the bike I love is inferior and I don't feel that is the case and am somewhat offended. I would like to build a chopper out of a 360º modern twin to get the old school thump I love.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
Quote:
Sorry ol' buddy, but I believe your "alibi" for Mr. Bloor and Co.'s refusal to have ever created a "Super Bonnie" or maybe a "Bonneville S" model does not hold up to scrutiny.
... I believe this because from reports I've read here on this website who have gone the Big Bore route ...
OK, let's scrutinize this by doing the math.
Bloor took the 790 to 865cc.
The big bore is a mere 39 cc's more.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Ya know, even though WE don't see the T-bird (and yes R3) as "upgrades" from the America and Speedmaster, it is possible that Bloor's business plan says just that. Doesn't make me dislike him in the slightest. I don't have to follow his business plan (although I plan to--crap, maybe I am just part of the sheeple after all). DAAAMMYOU BLOOOOOOR!
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Re: Upgrade, Trade-Up, Graduate To...
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
Quote:
Sorry ol' buddy, but I believe your "alibi" for Mr. Bloor and Co.'s refusal to have ever created a "Super Bonnie" or maybe a "Bonneville S" model does not hold up to scrutiny.
... I believe this because from reports I've read here on this website who have gone the Big Bore route ...
OK, let's scrutinize this by doing the math.
Bloor took the 790 to 865cc.
The big bore is a mere 39 cc's more.
For some of us, it was 114 cc's more, and made quite a difference.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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