 More HD woes
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Bill.
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
-George Best
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: May 2010
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I seriously doubt H-D will ever move their operation from Milwaukee, Bill. My opinion is that all this is just talk to wrangle a few concessions from the workforce, and maybe in the bargain, receive some tax benefits from the state of Wisconsin. (...however, though I "seriously doubt" this, I'm also thinkin' it might be a good idea for those folks workin' on Juneau Ave who might wish to stay employed and who don't mind movin', to start takin' some night courses at Milwaukee City College in conversational Spanish and/or Thai, OR at the VERY minimum, in conversational Southern U.S. dialects...y'all!!!)  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: More HD woes
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Btw, I found the part in that video where the talking heads mentioned the "aging customer base" for H-D's products rather coincidental, considering there was QUITE the heated exchange a while back at the Cycle World forum about this very issue when the topic of the closure of H-D's Buell division was discussed over there.
Some of the Buell "Faithful" would bring this point up quite a bit in that thread, which would then be followed by the H-D "Faithful" denying there was any validity to that argument at all.
(oh yeah, as you can imagine, that thread occasionally got "a little" uncivil in tone, alright!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Harley is a product of it's excesses. It complains that there is an aging customer base, but to me over in in the UK it is the aging customers that actually have the expendable cash, while us with kids still at home are more than a little strapped for folding.
Secondly why are their costs so high? they have and make use of very simple engine technology, use a modular system just like Triumph and keep most of the manufacturing in-house. (or is it because they do that they are un-competitive). I believe they should take note from the likes of Triumph who keep bike prices at a very reasonable sale price so more of us can afford to buy them, hence more sales and more profit.
So come on Harley, lower the cost of buying one buy at least 2-3k each and yippee share holders we are in profit as we are actually selling more then 1 a week. (lol).
EFI Speedmaster, Stainless Ride Slash Cut Silencers. Fly Screen. Oil Temp gauge. Crystal clear headlight. Drilled stem Oval Mirrors. Short Sissy Bar & Rack.
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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They are hardly satisfied. 
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,647
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Secondly why are their costs so high?
I think they're saying it's the labor costs that are so high. All those guys are union, making a good wage, plus health insurance and a nice pension. HD I'm sure has to pick up the tab for that stuff. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, just that it's a big expense that cuts into their bottom line. Other companies can build a factory in say Thailand for instance, and have their product built cheaper, with no labor unions, absurd health insurance costs, pensions, etc. Therefore they can sell their product cheaper. Harley has an image to uphold, can you imagine the backlash if the great american motorcycle company started building their bikes in India or somewhere? The same has happened/is happening to a lot of companies in the U.S. particularly in the manufacturing industry. Try going to Target or Walmart or home depot, or (insert big box store here) and try to buy something that isn't "made in China". Most U.S. companies simply can't compete with third world labor costs, union or not. Sad really.
06 America 904
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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This news sounds weirdly like what happened to the Triumph car company at the end. Relocating to another city to "save labor costs (i.e., sticking it to the overpaid workers)", creating havoc with production and employee relations, until finally breaking on the rocks of corporate mismanagement. I hope they pull it out and succeed.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 85
Member
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Member
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Quote:
Quote:
Secondly why are their costs so high?
I think they're saying it's the labor costs that are so high. All those guys are union, making a good wage, plus health insurance and a nice pension. HD I'm sure has to pick up the tab for that stuff. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, just that it's a big expense that cuts into their bottom line. Other companies can build a factory in say Thailand for instance, and have their product built cheaper, with no labor unions, absurd health insurance costs, pensions, etc. Therefore they can sell their product cheaper. Harley has an image to uphold, can you imagine the backlash if the great american motorcycle company started building their bikes in India or somewhere? The same has happened/is happening to a lot of companies in the U.S. particularly in the manufacturing industry. Try going to Target or Walmart or home depot, or (insert big box store here) and try to buy something that isn't "made in China". Most U.S. companies simply can't compete with third world labor costs, union or not. Sad really.
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2010/07/23/harley-davidson-considering-assembly-plant-in-india/
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62 |
Making HD outside this country will take the "made in USA" argument away from the HD group. Also give guys like me something else to rib my friends about. In the end I doubt it will do much to hurt their US sales as long as they maintain a US factory or at least make the components here.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
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They tried making Harleys outside the US before and it didn't work out. As for moving out of Milwaukee, that's just stupid. They've always been HD of Milwaukee, nobody ever heard of HD of Some Other Place.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: May 2010
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Quote:
They tried making Harleys outside the US before and it didn't work out.
Oh! So GB, it appears you know of Rikuo Motorcycles then, eh?!
And for those around here who might be unaware of these old Harley-Davidsons made under license in pre-war Japan, here's the story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikuo_Motorcycle
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
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Harley is competitive guys.
883 is the same price as 865 Triumph.
You can easily get on a DYNA type bike for T-Bird prices.
The soft tails are about Rocket prices.
Triumph sells sport bikes and sport touring too and they do not have to support a dealer on every corner and 250,000 bike production levels to make money. If it were not for Thailand the unit cost of Triumph would be way up. Even the Brits on this forum have noted they pay more for a Triumph than we do.
If Harley moves (which I doubt very seriously)it will probably be to my back yard. We barbecue a lot. Know all about taking hogs apart, serving them up with spicy sauce etc. Simple transition.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: May 2010
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Quote:
If Harley moves (which I doubt very seriously)it will probably be to my back yard. We barbecue a lot. Know all about taking hogs apart, serving them up with spicy sauce etc. Simple transition.
However Ron, IF Harley WOULD move their operation to Texas, would that ALSO mean they'd be making their already, in many cases, large lumbering motorcycles even LARGER???
(...I mean, everybody "knows" that "everything is bigger in Texas", RIGHT ol' buddy?!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Yepper buddy!
We are fixin to whip up a V-8 Yelping Eagle hardly soft tail with turbo and ape hangers with longhorn highway lights a oooga horn, and air shocks for bouncing at bike night.
Now beat that Wisconsin!
We are the masters of big and gaudy pardner.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: May 2010
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Quote:
Yepper buddy!
We are fixin to whip up a V-8 Yelping Eagle hardly soft tail with turbo and ape hangers with longhorn highway lights a oooga horn, and air shocks for bouncing at bike night.
Now beat that Wisconsin!
We are the masters of big and gaudy pardner.
Well, seein' as how the state of Texas appears to have a business plan in place, it's sure startin' to look like those poor folks up in Wisconsin better start lookin' for some other place of employment up there, alright!
(geeee, I wonder if those folks over at the Zamboni factory might be hirin'???)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Mar 2010
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You Harley lovers had better be careful, they might decide to scrap the chrome beauties and go back to making the Harley Davidson MT350. Cheap and Green. 
EFI Speedmaster, Stainless Ride Slash Cut Silencers. Fly Screen. Oil Temp gauge. Crystal clear headlight. Drilled stem Oval Mirrors. Short Sissy Bar & Rack.
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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yaknow Dwight, some of the Harley models do look a little like a Zamboni. hmmm
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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Quote:
If Harley moves (which I doubt very seriously)it will probably be to my back yard. We barbecue a lot. Know all about taking hogs apart, serving them up with spicy sauce etc. Simple transition.
Say what, I thought you Texas types thought BBQ was beef and nothing else. If it's hawg wild BBQ you're looking for come on down to the Tennessee Valley and bring those dynahardboywideultrasofclassicnighterstale motorcicles with ya. 
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
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Everyone knows Kansas City and Memphis are the only places on Earth to get real BBQ. That said, these rumors of HD's moving to the south or midwest have been circulating for about two years in the Kansas City HD plant.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22 |
It's the product, I'm afraid....nothing that bad ,but if you charge premium prices you need to offer a premium product....is it so hard to get a simple machine to hang together? (or is it that the average customer often doesnt ride it enough to know it'll wear out quicker than it ought to?)
Why,in the UK ,am I asked to pay 1.5 times the price of a TBA for a Dyna? O.K its a nice bike, but the inherent problems with the twin cam motor should surely have been sorted long long ago?
Given all the problems with my late and unlamented twin cam, I guess this is just sour grapes to an extent.....BUT- I might have bought another one if I had faith it'd hold together mechanically for the long term.
But then I'm probably not the average customer for HD-I think it's more of a 'lifestyle product' these days...
and I'm probaly not a 'lifestyle' person.
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: May 2010
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Quote:
It's the product, I'm afraid....nothing that bad ,but if you charge premium prices you need to offer a premium product....is it so hard to get a simple machine to hang together? (or is it that the average customer often doesnt ride it enough to know it'll wear out quicker than it ought to?)
Why,in the UK ,am I asked to pay 1.5 times the price of a TBA for a Dyna? O.K its a nice bike, but the inherent problems with the twin cam motor should surely have been sorted long long ago?
Given all the problems with my late and unlamented twin cam, I guess this is just sour grapes to an extent.....BUT- I might have bought another one if I had faith it'd hold together mechanically for the long term.
But then I'm probably not the average customer for HD-I think it's more of a 'lifestyle product' these days...
and I'm probaly not a 'lifestyle' person.
"Lifestyle"?! "LIFESTYLE"???!!! 
Why, whatever might you be talkin' about here, Alan ol' boy??? I'm sorry dude, but I have absolutely NO idea what you mean here!!!
What?! Do you fellas over there on that li'l island off of continental Europe have some kind of sub-sub-culture thing goin' on with these Harleys that you're not sharing with us Yanks over here??? 
Hey...WAIT a minute! Might this at all have somethin' to do with dressin' up like a pirate before hoppin' on these Harleys or somethin' like THAT??? 
(...oh, NOW I think I get what you might be talkin' about here, dude!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22 |
Oh heavens above! Surely I dont offend?
In the u.K. a rider is not considered a 'real man' until he has ridden a motorised unicycle whilst drinking a glass of prussic acid and reciting the relevant clymer manual backwards.
Is it different for you guys/gals/others?
Al
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Don't pay any attention to Dwight (or Dwight2).
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Re: More HD woes
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Aye, me hardy! Listen to yond Friar! You pay no never mind to that thare Dwighty or Dwighty2 fella if'n ya got yerself half a brain in yer head, matey!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: More HD woes
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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For the benefit of Dwight I will now tell you how to greet an Englishman(other than with a winchester,naturally)
Repeat after me
'air',now say 'hair', and now say'low'...good..run these together now...'air,hair,low'
job done
ps,I'm a Scot
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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