 TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Just got my bike back from the shop today. Two words sum it up - holy sh1t! Where it used to run out of steam around 6k, now it pulls really strong to the 8,250 limiter. No real downside, exept for maybe a bit more valve clatter, but all things considered it's all good. The carbs aren't even dialed in for the new cams yet. 
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Ken,
Whats the set up? pipes, jets, BB, etc....???
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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07 SM 865; currently running OEM CVK carbs with K&N pods, AI removed, 150 mains, Thrux needles with (1) .47mm shim, 45 pilots, Kawasaki GPZ slide springs, long TORS, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA +3/8250 Igniter.
Right now it is lean on top & rich on the bottom. There is more to be had out of it. And it runs friggin great!
I have a set of Uni pods on-deck. That's next.
Then I will probably try 152 or 155 mains next, & turn in the pilots a bit. Maybe lose the shim.
We'll see!
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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cool...Im in the market for a set of cams...soon!
Keep us informed please.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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The motor now sounds stronger, all through the rev range, even at idle. It sounds friggin awesome. Who would have thought a cam change would have produced that with long TORS... I installed 152.5 mains & reset the pilot screws to aprox. 1.5 turns out. Those changes brought the A/F @ WOT down from just over 14 to now just over 12, & the idle up to over 12, from 11; 70mph cruise is approx. 14 A/F (about where I want it). That tells me that the mains are too large for the current setup, or alternatively the K&N's are overly restrictive. Before I make another main jet change I'm going to install the Uni pods. If my theory is right then I should be within one main jet from optimum. once the mains are as good as I can get them with either the Uni's or K&N's then I'll dial in the pilots. The needle seems pretty good for the time being. Did I mention that I'm diggin' that Innovate G2? 
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Thanks for the update Ken. Been thinking about the 865 kit myself someday. Sounds like you had the bike on a dyno to test the A/F ratio? Be interested to hear your final setup. Also, did Triumph performance work with your shop to get you the parts and exchange the cam core? I wondered how they handled that logistically, since I know they want the stock cam returned after the 813 cams are installed. Roughly how much did your shop charge to put in the pistons and cam?
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Just saw your other post on the G2 unit, which explains how you got the A/F measurements. Pretty cool device.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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The cost was more than it should be & yet worth every penny  My bike has the stock pistons & no head work, only internal mod is the 813 cams. The shop worked out the logistics directly with TPUSA.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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OK, Thanks. Sounds like you got some good improvement from the cam and ignition remap. Might do the same thing next winter on my 2007 BA assuming I can swing the cost. Kind of hesitant to do the cam myself as I wouldn't want to screw up the install. Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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I installed 152.5 mains, kept the K&N pods, & that brought it to 12 A/F @ WOT; slightly too rich. I double-checked the pilot screws & they were actually 2 & 1/8 out. I reset the screws to 1.75 turns out each, & replaced the K&N pods with Uni #4229 pods. The filter change alone brought it to 13 A/F @ WOT. That's looking good! Clearly, on my bike the Uni pods flow better than the K& N's. No surprise there. To recap the current power setup: Uni pods (4229); 152.5 mains; Thrux needles w. one .47mm shim; Kawasaki GPZ slide springs; 45 pilots with screws 1.75 out; TPUSA 813 cams; TPUSA Igniter Remap +3/8250; long TORS; IX plugs. Next a bit more fussing with needle height and pilot screws, then off to the dyno (when I get some time) to confirm the results.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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3/4 Throttle
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Quote:
Just got my bike back from the shop today. Two words sum it up - holy sh1t!
Where it used to run out of steam around 6k, now it pulls really strong to the 8,250 limiter.
No real downside, exept for maybe a bit more valve clatter, but all things considered it's all good.
The carbs aren't even dialed in for the new cams yet.
Did your local shop do the install or are you lucky enough to live near South Bay Triumph? I am thinking about the camshafts and the FCR 39's from South Bay Triumph. 
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
...Did your local shop do the install or are you lucky enough to live near South Bay Triumph? I am thinking about the camshafts and the FCR 39's from South Bay Triumph...
My local shop (Master Tech that I trust) did the cam install & took care of the igniter.
I recommend that you do the cam & igniter first. You then may not feel a need to do the carbs, at least not right away. Really.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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I already did the igniter and still lookin for a little more. So did you pull the cams, then send them in or did you buy a spare set to send in? Also where abouts do you live? I need t check to see if the local shop has done any cam swaps. I am definitely interested though!!
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
...So did you pull the cams, then send them in or did you buy a spare set to send in? Also where abouts do you live? ...
Eastern PA; the shop pulled the cams & sent for regrind, did it in the "off" season (this winter wasn't much good for riding anyway) took a few weeks to get 'em back. If you have an 865 these cams will wake it up big time.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
Quote:
...So did you pull the cams, then send them in or did you buy a spare set to send in? Also where abouts do you live? ...
Eastern PA; the shop pulled the cams & sent for regrind, did it in the "off" season (this winter wasn't much good for riding anyway) took a few weeks to get 'em back. If you have an 865 these cams will wake it up big time.
What shop in Eastern PA? I am in Western PA?
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
...What shop in Eastern PA?...
Eurosports in Coopersburg, PA.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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can you post a video or sound bite so we can hear how much better the sound is?
07 TBA, 32" Turnouts, DIY Freak, hard saddlebags, 18" screen, dresser bars, highway pegs, floorboards, fog lights, amber run/turn lights front, red run/turn/stop lights back, blue speedo/tach lights, LED console lights
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
can you post a video or sound bite so we can hear how much better the sound is?
No, sorry.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Currently: 07 865/270 stock pistons; OEM CVK carbs, Uni pods (4229), 152.5 mains, Thrux needles, no shims, Kawasaki GPZ slide springs, 45 pilots with screws 1.75 out; TPUSA 813 cams; TPUSA Igniter Remap +3/8250; long TORS; IX plugs; & AI gone.
I pulled the shims, & it is still on the rich side from 4k - 6k @ WOT (temporarily dips to as rich as 11 A/F), which tells me the needles are not yet optimum. Once past that, & @ WOT the A/F is in the high 12's (12.9)to very low 13's (13.1), depending on conditions. That also tells me the mains are spot-on.
If I could lower the Thrux needles a bit I would. Maybe need TBS needles?
It idles a little rich (low 12's A/F) & normally cruises in the 13 - 14 A/F range; 2nd gear 4K RPM is normally just over 14 A/F. The pilot screws can probably be leaned out a bit more.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Try using the NABG 790 Bonnie needle, it's less rich in the mid range and generally gives a little flatter AFR.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
Try using the NABG...
Thanks, will do, I plan to pick those up tomorrow. More to follow.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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The 790 Bonnie needles are actually marked NAGB; I installed them today & retested. The 4 - 6k RPM range @ WOT is heading in the right direction & is now in good shape, but the 4k 2nd gear cruise went from approx. 14 A/F to 16+ A/F; & warm idle (no choke) is still in the 12 A/F range. So...I pulled the NAGB's & installed (2) .47 shims on each & will retest again tomorrow. I figure its a 50/50 shot whether 1 or 2 shims will be better, so I went large to start. If the 4k 2nd gear flat road cruise goes well & the 4k - 6k WOT is still good then the pilot screws will be the next focus. Stay tuned 
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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The NAGB 790 bonnie needles didn't work out so well over all. They were brilliant at WOT in the 4k - 6k range, but screwed up the cruise big-time (way lean).
The NBZT's may have better overall performance where it really matters than the NBZY's in there now, so I'm not sure the the stock NBZY needles will stay.
It idles about 12 A/F, just over 14 A/F at 4k 2nd gear level cruise, varies a bit from 14 A/F - 15 A/F at 3.5k on the open road in 5th gear, monetarily approaches 12 A/F at WOT just above 4k & then settles in about 13 A/F until the mains take over & stays in the 13 A/F range, give or take, to the limiter.
Currently: 07 865/270 stock pistons; OEM CVK carbs, Uni pods (4229), 152.5 mains, stock NBZY needles, no shims, Kawasaki GPZ slide springs, 45 pilots with screws 1.75 out; TPUSA 813 cams; TPUSA Igniter Remap +3/8250; long TORS; IX plugs; & AI gone.
Last edited by B02S4; 05/17/2010 8:03 PM.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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would those kawi springs be causing a slight issue?
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
would those kawi springs be causing a slight issue?
I doubt it. The slides react a bit quicker & can induce a lean spike if the throttle is whacked open at low revs, but that's not what was going on with the NAGB's.
We need to recognize that things happen differently on the road than what they do on a dyno. On the dyno we're basically at WOT almost the whole time. Not so on the road. What's going on with my current setup reflects decent numbers out on the road.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Currently: 07 865/270 stock pistons; OEM CVK carbs, Uni pods (UP-4229), 152.5 mains, NBZT Thruxton needles, no shims, Kawasaki GPZ slide springs, 45 pilots with pilot screws 1 turn out; TPUSA 813 cams; TPUSA Igniter Remap +3/8250; long TORS; IX plugs; & AI gone. The above combo provides the best combination of performance & driveability so far. Things are generally very different on the road as compared to a dyno. On the dyno you're pretty much WOT all the way; not so on the road. The motor runs strong, idles well, cruises smoothly, under WOT is on the high 12's low 13's A/F, & depending upon cruise RPM is generally in the 13 - 14 A/F range, & under power is basically in the 12 - 14 A/F range under most conditions, pretty much where I want it. At this point, when I get some time & good weather I'm good to go to see what the dyno says about power & torque. 
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Monkey Butt
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With all the dyno runs so far, what is the HP and Torque gain to date? Would be interesting to put a $ value per HP gain.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
Ken,
I spoke with Carlos from Triumph Performance on Friday and I was enquiring about the same cams (813's)you installed on your bike. I gave him the info on my bike (904 Wiseco Big Bore) and he does not believe that they will work with my Wiseco big bore kit. He also said that they would not work with a stock 790 or 865 for that matter. I mentioned that you installed them on your bike and that you were quite impressed with the results. He said that he wanted to do some research but he beleives that they will not work. He even mentioned that he may need to get in touch with you to discuss the issue. I really want to try the cams in my bike.  
Theres got to be something lost in translation here. I also spoke with Carlos (a few months ago) about adding cams to my internally stock 865 and there were no issues. TPUSA makes cams for any set up and I was even asking about getting the cams for the 904 even though I did not have it BUT had the intention of getting there.
hmmmm....
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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right, maybe it was a 360º vs 270º firing order misunderstanding
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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3/4 Throttle
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I don't know, I told him what I had and he said the cams would not work. I believe he said there would be a clearance problem. It is a litte hard for me to understand him but I am pretty sure that is what he told me. He told me to call him back this week after he does some research. So I will give him a call on Friday to see what he has to say.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
I don't know, I told him what I had and he said the cams would not work. I believe he said there would be a clearance problem. It is a litte hard for me to understand him but I am pretty sure that is what he told me. He told me to call him back this week after he does some research. So I will give him a call on Friday to see what he has to say...
Currently: 07 865/270 stock pistons; OEM CVK carbs, Uni pods (UP-4229), 152.5 mains, NBZT Thruxton needles, no shims, Kawasaki GPZ slide springs, 45 pilots with pilot screws 1/3 turn out; TPUSA 813 cams; TPUSA Igniter Remap +3/8250; long TORS; IX plugs; & AI gone.
Well, most of the weekend was spent off the bike, either traveling, working on the boat, or out on the boat.
When I got back I took the SM out for a ride & then double-checked the shop's paperwork to make sure that I didn't imagine anything.
Yes, 865/270 motor with stock pistons & stock head. Yes, TPUSA 813 cams.
I didn't speak to Carlos directly, & next time you do, drop Bill Himmelsbach's name on him. Bill did the cam install. Carlos should know who he is.
Everybody wants dyno numbers. OK. Keep in mind that when the bike was last dyno'd with 813 cams, the carbs weren't yet tuned for the new cams (overly rich in the middle & slightly lean on top), & when the bike was previously dyno'd before the 813 cam install, the bike was rich on the mains.
That said...
Before the 813 cams & ignitor install: max power 52.43; max torque = 48.03; CF SAE 0.96; smoothing 5
After 813 cams & ignitor: max power = 63.54; max torque = 48.68; CF SAE 0.97; smoothing 5.
You will notice that the CF applied pulled the numbers down from what the bike actually did, however I'm showing the corrected numbers for comparison purposes. Same dyno, same operator, but different days with different environmental conditions. And both of the above runs were with long TORS, arguably sub-optimal for producing max power.
I don't think that an 11HP gain for a set of cams & remapped igniter is too shabby, with the recognition that neither run was done with optimal tuning.
I have since gone to Uni pods & done some additional carb tuning. It should do even better on the next dyno trip.
I'm thinking about trying 42 pilots, as it is still a bit rich on the low end, even with the pilot screws now only a third of a turn out.
The motor does like a bit faster idle speed with the new cams (approx. 1200 RPM indicated, when warm).
813 cams won't work in a 865/270? Good thing my bike doesn't know that!
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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what was rpm with 52.43hp and what with 63.54 ? and no increase of torque is really disappointing
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
...and no increase of torque is really disappointing
Why do you think that? When it comes to cams you generally have to give up something to get something - a trade off.
Try looking at it from another perspective. It gained 11+ HP, sub-optimally tuned, with no loss in torque. The power gains are above 5k.
With the stock cams the motor was out of breath by 6600 RPM. Game over. Now it keeps pulling strong to redline (8250 RPM on mine).
Peak power with the OEM cams was approx. 6400 RPM; new cams, approx. 7400 RPM, with much less fall-off at redline.
All things considered I like this. Worth it IMO.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Greenhorn
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Quote:
I don't know, I told him what I had and he said the cams would not work. I believe he said there would be a clearance problem. It is a litte hard for me to understand him but I am pretty sure that is what he told me. He told me to call him back this week after he does some research. So I will give him a call on Friday to see what he has to say.
813 cams works with stock 790-865 360 or 270 motors
Will not work with Wiseco pistons and oversize valves, will work with Wiseco pistons with stock size valves.( The Wiseco pistons does not take full advantage of the 813 cams.
I hope this help.
1087cc's- 115RWHP-81.5RWTQ.Nuff Said
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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So its about $150.00/1HP. Figuring you have about 1500 in it.
The higher revs would be very nice depending on max HP at what RPM> Meaning, if the sweet spot for shift is 7000, 8200 becomes incidental. HP is the ability to make torque. I also expected the torque numbers to climb.
I bet it is a ton more fun to crank up than before you did it.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
...HP is the ability to make torque. I also expected the torque numbers to climb.
I bet it is a ton more fun to crank up than before you did it.
You have that backwards, in that HP is a product of torque x RPM. I expected the HP to climb, & that it did.
I think you may expect too much from a set of cams to significantly increase torque on what is basically a stock motor, although the torque did increase slightly.
It is way more fun & satisfying IMO.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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You are correct. I was thinking backwards.
Torque doesn't much matter if you can rev it higher you make the energy needed to go faster. Torque matters for going faster quicker at lower RPM levels.
I am always curious how this turns into 1/4 mile times. I think clearly you gained a few 10ths. Now with more energy you could gain a ton by dropping teeth up front or adding on the big sprocket.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Quote:
...I am always curious how this turns into 1/4 mile times. I think clearly you gained a few 10ths. Now with more energy you could gain a ton by dropping teeth up front or adding on the big sprocket.
It is no doubt quicker & faster. It still has the stock 07 MY gearing, although it works a whole lot better on the street now. This isn't a race bike though (it is a bagger with a lightbar, after all)
I'm gonna run it like this for a bit before deciding if carbs are next, & which big-bore setup will be on tap for the next power hit.
Curiosity is bugging me to try the 42 pilots. Cause & effect is much simpler to figure out with the on-board A/F meter.
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Re: TPUSA 813 Cams & Igniter Remap
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 988
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 988 |
Quote:
Quote:
I don't know, I told him what I had and he said the cams would not work. I believe he said there would be a clearance problem. It is a litte hard for me to understand him but I am pretty sure that is what he told me. He told me to call him back this week after he does some research. So I will give him a call on Friday to see what he has to say.
813 cams works with stock 790-865 360 or 270 motors
Will not work with Wiseco pistons and oversize valves, will work with Wiseco pistons with stock size valves.( The Wiseco pistons does not take full advantage of the 813 cams.
I hope this help.
Carlos, So then I can use the 813 cams in my bike then correct? As I do not have oversize valves in my bike, just the Wiseco 904 Big Bore.
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