First off, read this when you have a spare hour up your sleeve. It's a lengthy explanation of the importance of doing your own research when modifying or changing from stock components to after market ones.
It started as a reply to the thread in the Accessories Category on Progressive 440's, when some were unsure there was different rated springs for these shocks.
Anyway, realising I'd written almost an essay, I decided to put this thread in to explain mine and other member's experiences in trying to access quality info.
So first off, for those who know their stuff and have been around for a while, I won't insult you so please move onto another thread.
If I can demonstrate to even one or two newbies how easy it is to take advice from supposedly legitimate and well ejacated (it's a joke Joyce) sources that may jeopardise their safety, then read on.
One suggestion though, go and boil the jug and get a coffee first.
I hope you find it interesting and informing.
OK, Whilst we all realise I'm happy with my Hagon Nitros (as are others), as a second choice I'd be more than happy to have a set of Progressive 440's. There have just been too many people on here who's technical expertise I respect who have em. Mind you, I'd want to pick my own spring rating
LOL
What I do find hard to believe is, some have not been aware there was a choice of various rated springs for the Progressive 440's.
I mean to think one springs could fit all such as a 60kg female and then just by adjusting the preload, be able to handle a two up couple who weigh say for example 220kg.
. It's just a not technical reality.
Obviously there has been confusion and it may very well be due to poorly trained or inexperienced salesmen working behind the counter or on the phone, or like in Hagon's tech dept., they either didn't do their testing job properly in the first place or it may have been purely a misprint.
Now I don't want people to confuse what may appear to be that Hagon supply inferior shocks cos I know and so do many others that this is not the case, but with them fitted with the incorrectly rated springs they are at the very least crap and on the other end of the scale, even dangerous. In fact I hit a pothole with the wrong rated springs and thought I may have damaged my back further.
I know that's obvious now but does an inexperienced sales person?
My point is, when we do changes to our bikes, we aren't intentialy putting ourselves in danger. Sounds obvious but there is a lot of misinformation out there and we all have a responsibility to adequately research every detail of our changes to ensure, in this case, our suspension is performing better than the rubbish oem units we're replacing. Pretty important stuff when you think about it, both financially and safety wise anyway.
To give you an example, many of us on here may remember the saga me and other Nitro buyers had to go through to try and convince Hagon their specs were out when they were suggesting 20kg rated springs for a 90kg person.
One of the points I am trying to make though is, I would have thought those with Progressives who weren't aware their preferred choice of springs came with various rating might have asked themselves "why aren't we offered or asked about our normal riding weight so the distributor can select the most appropriately rated spring for my purposes? I mean, Hagon does?"
Which brings me to the importance of doing your own research. I remember for instance being told by Shutterbug (Don) who being a retired college professor obviously knows his research, right? Right.
Well during his research for the best shocks he could find he happened to come across the US Hagon Rep and was told "in a nutshell", spring rating is subjective to the rider. What
What are you blo#dy well talking about says Staffo and obviously Don? This isn't some mamby pamby, "it feels good I think" arrangement. This is a science and is quantitative, not subjective. I honestly was shocked and I couldn't believe my ears.
If you normally ride by yourself and you weigh whatever kg's or lbs, THERE IS a particular spring rated for that weight, and if you go two up, the pre-load will generally be adjusted to still be able to accommodate that extra weight.
But then we have the leading distributor not just in a 2 horse town but potentially in the biggest global market informing a prospective buyer this type of cr#p.
I'm still trying to get my head around it. No wonder we had a global financial crash if these are the sort of people running the show.
Springs are
Quote:
rated
, that's it.
What I'm getting at is, It's become pretty obvious that the US distributor for Hagon was giving incorrect advice and it's not only a "not getting what you paid and expected problem, it's a safety problem. The saddest part of this episode is "how many so called happy customers (see full version of his reply to Don's question below if you like" are riding bikes with bad suspension???
No wonder so many people on here have bagged out Hagon as an option, and how much have Hagon lost in revenue due to his lack of training which Hagon also have to take responsibility for too.
Btw, we on here were able to convince Hagon in GB to actually change their specs but by that stage how many riders had bought and think they are on safely rated shocks?
So, I'd just prefer to make the point that like Don, you really do need to not just assume what a salesmen (or company) has said is gospel and the importance of good research and asking questions.
We do have some of the most experienced self taught as well as properly trained mechanics on hand that if they don't know, they'll certainly try and find out for you, but in the first instance it's up to you to try and find out.
So first do you research and then back it up with a question on here if you aren't sure.
Anyway, for anyone that's interested in a good laugh, here's the US Hagon rep's reply to a question from Shutterbug. It just goes to show you can't always believe the so called GURUS cos someone said they were. 
Now here’s the email from Dave Quinn (the US Distributor for Hagon to Don (Shutterbug), after he questioned their suggestion that he believed the 20kg rated springs were not adequate for his weight:
Quote:
“Hagons’ Nitro spec for your Speedmaster is 18kg. We find most folks on this side of the Atlantic to be a bit bigger than the average English bloke, so we have supplied 20kg for the 10 or so pair of Nitros we’ve sold for this application, also for many of the standard Hagon twin shocks (which do not have the higher level of compression damping the Nitros have), the rest have been 23kg. Oddly enough, we were discussing whether to fit 18kg springs, given your solo loading, when your email about 26kg springs arrived.
Dave (Quinn) has also spoken to Hagons MD this morning about the Speedmaster spec - and they feel the requests for 26kg springs are isolated and not statistically significant, and they are not planning at the moment to reassess their specs for this bike. Please remember that ride quality is a VERY subjective thing; nobody’s assessment is incorrect, but one person’s opinion does not necessarily agree with another’s. We have many happy customers riding around on 20kg springs.
(now I'm getting scared cos unsuspecting riders are on bikes with shocks that are not rated to their weight. This has the potential for dangerous consequences - staffo.
Continuing on:
You have described your desire for a soft and plush ride- this seems incongruous with a request for 26kg springs, to say the least. 26kg is 148lb- this means, with two springs, you need a load of 300lbs to move the springs an inch, Our opinion is that fitting 26kg spring to your Speedmaster is going down the same road you’ve already travelled with Progressive...
(What??? - now the good bit which personally does my head in)
We have never before been asked for springs this heavy. We do not have the correct Nitro bodies in stock to supply with 26kg springs – this would be a special order, take 3-5 weeks to get here, and then postal time to you. One note- if you opt to specify your spring rate on special order shocks, we will NOT assume the expense of spring exchanges- we’ll happily do them, but you pay for them.â€
So, for a start his mentioning Quote:
We do not have the correct Nitro bodies in stock to supply with 26kg springs is blatantly wrong.
This too was verified by our own member Grzegorz when he received a reply from Hagon H.Q. in G.B.
Grzegorz said he was told "there is no different bodies for stiffer springs (as) all bodies are the same!!!!!!" He then went on to say "told him that I know people with similar body weight and they are happy with 26 kg springs and told him that someone in (the) states (wonder who that was) was asking about those springs and their rep said that different body is needed.......in the end he said thank you for report and (words to the effect) that when I called back they informed him they will change the ratings for blokes like us .....hopefully they will
Quote:
Well they did change their specs cos the Aus distributor emailed me to say just that. Amazing how between the 3 of us and one other member who's name escapes me at the moment, can get a company to admit their mistakes and change their specs from the advice of their customers.
To top it off, I then emailed the US Rep with this info and even then he said Quote:
Hello John,
Thanks for your input. I think you are referring to Hagons Speedmaster specs?
While we have had no complaints from our Speedmaster customers, we are very interested in any and all feedback.
Ride quality is a highly individual assessment, and there are no right or wrong answers- the only important issue is making each customer happy.
All the best,
What a load of shite. That is exactly how salesmen talk and quite frankly points out the importance of making sure via several sources, the accuracy of the information supplied.
Then to say if you opt to go down this path, you will have to pay expenses of changing springs via shipping etc. Geez, no wonder Don chose progressives and I don't blame him. The whole thing was a disgraceful example of complete incompetence. The ironic factor in all this is, the Nitro Units are brilliant but I have to admit, my trust in their advice has been given a belting.
Anyway, this whole saga still haunts me as you have to ask yourselves how many people are riding Hagon shocks on dangerously underated springs???
Apologies for this huge essay but I believe it needed to be said to point out the importance of making sure you do your own research and don't believe everyone just because they hold a title or talk as if they know their stuff. We know from these examples it's not always true.
staffo 
