 Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
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Last year I bought an 03 TA with 2000km. When I put 'er in storage at the end of riding season she had 17000km. And.... a dead battery. Two days ago (March 4) I fired 'er up with a brand new battery. Took 'er out for a 20 miles ride (or so). Next day (today) I tried to start 'er with only enough juice to turn the engine over for a few slow cranks then.... zzzzzzzzt. No more cranking.
After putting the charger on for a couple o' hours I got 'er running while I put a volt meter over the battery terminals. Just over 12v at around 2000 km. I'm thinking (based on Search) add a 10 gauge wire directly from the r/r to the battery to get 'er up to 14 v (ish). And I ask... what's involved with that? Take out the airbox? Where and how do I get to the r/r so I can put in a foot long 10 gauge from there to the battery for a complete and efficient charging connection?
And what's gone wrong in the first place? "This is not my beautiful bike! This is not my beautiful place!"
Why oh why would an 03 with only 17000 km give me grief with the battery? Again, I put in a new battery just a couple o' weeks ago, yet I have the same problems as last year's original stock.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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how many Volts is it pushing at 4500rpm?
Where are you taking the reading from?
have you checked how many Volts are actually coming from your Rotor?
should be between 60-70 volts thats before getting to your reg
How much power is your new speedo drawing?
and does it completely turn off?
Mine pushes 14.37 Volts at 4500rpm, and thats with running twin headlights,
But with electricory it could be almost anything, do you know a good autolecky
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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There's a whole thread here somewhere on adding the heavier wire directly to the battery. I never quite figured out exactly how to do this, but would like too.
Al
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Keith,
The main multiplug for the regulator circuit is under the carbs. I haven't had mine apart recently but the 2 main wires from the regulator feed the battery. The positive through a 30 amp fuse (#11 in the fuse box) and the neg side runs through a plug to the battery. Make sure both are free from corrosion. I intend on getting under my bike pulling the regulator, splicing into wire number 4 coming out of the regulator and running a large gauge wire directly to the + lead on the battery. I might also splice another ground from the regulator directly to the battery.
Make sure the 3 wire feed from the alternator to regulator is free of corrosion at the plug also.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
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Quote:
Where are you taking the reading from?
I took the reading right from the battery terminals,
Quote:
have you checked how many Volts are actually coming from your Rotor? should be between 60-70 volts thats before getting to your reg
By rotor, do you mean alternator? And where would I take this reading from?
Quote:
How much power is your new speedo drawing?
Milliamps I am sure. I had the same charging problem at the end of last year's riding season when I was running the stock speedo.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
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Quote:
There's a whole thread here somewhere on adding the heavier wire directly to the battery. I never quite figured out exactly how to do this, but would like too.
I read that thread but didn't quite grasp how to do this either. I WILL however be figuring it out as I address this issue.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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 Looking in from the left side under the carbs... In this pic, the wire you want to splice into is the red/black one coming out of the rectifier. Pull the wire out of the plastic connector, and then take a heavier gauge wire (10 or 12), and run it directly to the positive battery post. You will need a couple spade connectors, some heat shrink tubing, and a connector for the battery end of the wire. It's that simple. Wire out of the rectifier, bypass the long skinny wire in the stock harness with a shorter heavier wire directly to the battery.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Check Pants
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With Roadworthy's picture and description, I did the rewire this afternoon. A few notes: There isn't much slack in that red/black wire. I pulled the rectifier mounting fasteners (10 mm, 2) and was able to pull out another inch or so of wire to work with. Even so, there still isn't much. It was tough wrapping the OEM wire to the new lead and getting it soldered correctly. If I have issues later, I'll suspect that solder joint. I did the solder on the regulator side from the right side of the bike. Roadworthy's picture is from the right side. Fired the bike up and got a steady 14.3v at the battery. I think with my new battery last near, I was only getting around 13.4v at the battery with the bike running. One thing that tells me I made a postive impact for sure, is that my horn is at full volume with the bike just idling. Previously, my horn always sounded pretty weak. Regulator Side:  Battery Side: 
Last edited by ssjones; 03/06/2010 5:20 PM.
Al
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Al, you did it a bit differently than I did, I pulled the spade connector out of the plastic end of the rectifier wires and joined them with a spade connector and shrink tube. Battery side is the same though. Glad you got the bike charging again where it should be. Quote:
Roadworthy's picture is from the right side.
My pic is from the left side, as you sit on the bike. You can see the idle adjustment knob under the carb.
We really need to get this with pics in the tech vault, it seems to come up about once every other month.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Why cut the wire or even remove it? Just spice into it leaving the old lead in place. Having two wires running to the battery on the positive side won't hurt. It actually is better.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Thanks to Dave for the picture and description of direct wiring from r/r to the battery + side. I now have the same mod on my bike.
However still not charging. After the mod and with great optimism I started the bike in a fully charged battery, ran a volt meter across the terminals and got 12.3v. Revved 'er up and no real change to voltage. Turned on my driving lights... no change, hmmmmm. Tested for voltage while cranking it over... no significant change. Hmmmmm x2. Went out for a ride (rode with a fully charged battery, driving lights off) and stopped frequently. After each stop she started easily. Got home... shut it off for a few minutes, then started it again and perhaps noticed a weaker crank over.
But for sure I'm not getting 13-14 volts under any circumstance tested. I'm thinking I'll have to tap into the alternator now to see what reading I get there. I'm not sure how to do that... anyone?
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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I take it the 03 models have the wiring running under the carbs?
my 06 runs down under the motor, so only slightly different
trace the wires from the cover of the rotor (alternator) to the joiner before the regulator, run a multi meter across the 3 wires in turn pairing them up, on the rotor side, start the motor and rev to around 4000rpm and and note the readings, this is where you should get a reading of between 60-70 volts, if its lower then you know where your problem is, if it is between that, then it maybe your regulator
“There is no heaven, there is no ******, except here on Earth.â€
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Have you checked all the connections Keith? A little corrosion or oxidation goes a long ways in negatively affecting system performance. Prime suspect would be the fuse plugs and then any other plug connections. Sometimes just unplugging and replugging can clean the connection enough to make it work.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Thanks Paul... I will check voltage from alternator tomorrow.
Yeah Bill, I thought of bad connections. Haven't found any suspects yet. New battery so the terminals are fine. Pulled all fuses over winter... cleaned fuse box contacts and greased them. Will check as many connections as I can tomorrow.
Has anyone here had a faulty alternator or r/r? The bike only has 17,000 km on 'er.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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When I fitted the twin headlights to mine, I contacted Triumph themselves, and they said the earlier models wouldn't cope with the headlight set up, without updating reg and a little other work, but said if its running over 14 volts no problems at all
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Loquacious
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Here are some readings Woodley took comparing a good and bad regulator along with some links to problems he had with charging. regulator values and the tests he made to find it.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Al, you did it a bit differently than I did, I pulled the spade connector out of the plastic end of the rectifier wires and joined them with a spade connector and shrink tube. ................We really need to get this with pics in the tech vault, it seems to come up about once every other month.
In hindsight, since I had the regulator off the mount, I should have just pulled it out from under the bike with that side of the connector. Than, moving to the workbench, I could have easily spliced into that wire and did a much neater solder joint. Than, just re-fish that connector and new wire back in place. I see a re-do coming up.
Al
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Quote:
Here are some readings Woodley took comparing a good and bad regulator along with some links to problems he had with charging. regulator values and the tests he made to find it.
Went over those thread carefully today. Over the next couple of days I'll check the output of the alternator. Meanwhile I'm 90% convinced it's the r/r. I just bought one from Pinwall for $50 (a piece of history from Freedom's bike). If it turns out the original r/r is good I'll have back up for me or someone else in need.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Keith a50$ pinwall r/r is what cured my problems. Yours sound very familiar(but im no pro.) here is alink to a helpful site for trouble shooting the charging system. they also sell a hopped up r/r that will work on our bikes. Mine is still working fine but if this one goes bad Ill probably try one of these. might be a consideration for someone with extra lights or other electrical. click on more info by the r/r http://roadstercycle.com/
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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I guess I shouldnt say that it will work on our bikes because im not sure it will bolt right up to our mount.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Keith, have a close look at the main ground wire (easier said than done) and insure you have a clean connection there, too. Corrosion there could easily cause a low charging situation.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Yup, still working on my malfunctioning charging system. Here's what I've done: - Checked all connections. Cleaned where necessary including the battery ground at both ends (which were pretty clean). - Checked voltage at battering under a range of RPMs. Got readings in the low 12 volt range. - Checked output of alternator from the connection (under the seat) shown in the picture below. Got reading of low 30s at around 4500 RPMs.  So now I'm thinking the problem's with the alternator 'cause I should be getting readings of 60-70 volts? Thoughts, experience or otherwise?
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Worn Saddle
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Assuming you remembered to switch to AC when reading the stator output I'd say you've found the culprit. I'm thinking offhand that you should be seeing 60VAC or better at 4500 rpm, but I lack a manual in my motel room so I can't say that with absolute certainty. Pretty easy fix (maybe Pinwall will have a stator) and you can check that pesky pickup coil sensor gap for an 0.8mm gap while you're in there. New side cover gasket, too, unless you're uncommonly lucky.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Easy fix you figure there Ed. Easy's good... The Haynes manual says there should be 60-70 volts coming from the alternator but also states that Triumph did not give a specific figure.
What's the pesky pickup coil pickup coil sensor gap thing about?
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Slightly OT (sorry).
Hey Keith, how come your R/R connector is under the seat - did they change the position on later bikes or has your's already been modded?
Mine's below the injectors like in the photo further up the thread (Old Roadie's pic I think) and is awkward to get to.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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That's not the r/r connector under the seat Richard, it's the alternator. The r/r connector is under the carbs on my '03.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Easy fix you figure there Ed. Easy's good... The Haynes manual says there should be 60-70 volts coming from the alternator but also states that Triumph did not give a specific figure.
What's the pesky pickup coil pickup coil sensor gap thing about?
I'd believe the Haynes book since they reverse engineer a lot of their manual and they likely tested a real world output to get their specs. It's easy in that it's a remove and replace job and the right side cover is an easy go after you loosen the footrest bar so it'll swing out of the way. Buying a new stator might be a whole different adventure. That sensor bit is a re-write in the shop manual that changed the gap spec from 1.0mm to 0.8mm to protect the ignitor (at least that's the way the quotes from the service bulletin read).
Pinwall has one for $70 bucks...
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Thanks again Ed. The manual states that a special puller is required to yank the stator. And although I am not mechanically inept, I am intimidated by tales of specialty tools and such. Once I get in there I'm sure I'll figure it out. That stator from Pinwall is from Freedom's bike (I can tell by the year and mileage). Kinda interesting. I recently ordered the r/r from his bike so now I guess I'll own more than one piece from his wreck.
There's a couple more tests I can run before determining the stator is undeniably the culprit. The Haynes manual says to check resistance between the leads coming from the alternator (should be small resistance, no specifications given). The resistance should be equal or close to one another across the 3 wires. Another test is from the each of the 3 leads to ground. There should be no continuity from any of the leads to ground.
This I will do tomorrow and should determine definitively whether or not I need to replace the stator. Sometimes I think the Ghost of Lucas is a real entity and not just a lighthearted joke amongst British steel owners.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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I think the Queen's English to American/Canadian subversion of same is killing us here, what I'm calling the stator is the alternator coil. You won't have to pull the magnet (aka armature) off the crank, just replace the alternator coil mounted in the right side cover. That shouldn't require any special tool.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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No Ed it wasn't you, this thread played on my ignorance when it comes to stuff like this. I got a little mixed up last night when I was going over the Haynes manual under poor lighting, with less than perfect eyesight and a couple o' glasses of wine under my belt. I got 'er now though. Thanks for your humble correction!
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Keith, When you measure the resistance across the 3 leads and then to ground, could you post your readings? Also, if you do need to replace the stator, could you check the resistance of the new unit. Much appreciated.  These numbers should be posted in the tech vault for future reference. BTW I checked my Triumph Service Manual and they don't have any specifications for resistance values....what kind of book is this?????
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Quote:
Keith,
When you measure the resistance across the 3 leads and then to ground, could you post your readings? Also, if you do need to replace the stator, could you check the resistance of the new unit. Much appreciated.
These numbers should be posted in the tech vault for future reference.
BTW I checked my Triumph Service Manual and they don't have any specifications for resistance values....what kind of book is this?????
Greg, I'd be happy to supply those resistance readings. I tested the resistance today actually but didn't make a mental note of them other than the results were not good and seemed to prove the stator is at fault. No probs doing it again.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
...a couple o' glasses of wine under my belt...
 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Wow... you weren't kidding when you said is was a simple fix there Ed. I ordered the replacement stator from Pinwall. I think I'll pull that cover and leave it off, effectively grounding my bike until it's healthy again. I went for a ride yesterday and barely make it back on a dead battery. As soon as I hit the driveway and the revs dropped to an idle, the bike died in my arms. I'm just gonna kill my brand new battery doing this.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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Greg, I checked the resistance again across the three wires coming from the stator. Each terminal pair gave a reading of less than 1 ohm. The same can be said about checking for continuity between each of the three terminals and ground. Less than 1 ohm on all three. On my meter, connecting the probes produces less than 1 ohm of resistance so safe to say there was no resistance on all the tests I ran.
According to the Haynes manual, if the stator is healthy there should be three resistance readings of very similar value across the three terminals coming from the stator, and there should be no continuity (infinite resistance) between each terminal and ground.
I've checked for damaged wiring or connectors but now I'll pull the cover to see if there is damaged wires there. If not my problem is unquestionably the stator.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Worn Saddle
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Keith,
If you're real careful you can pull the cover while the bike is on the side-stand and only lose a tablespoon of oil on the header. If you're thinking of doing it on a lift you'd better drain the sump. And, don't let the strength of the rotor magnet throw you off, it'll give a good tug on the side cover while you're removing it. A gentle tap on the four ears (each quadrant of the cover) while assist you in the removal operation.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Greg, I checked the resistance again across the three wires coming from the stator. Each terminal pair gave a reading of less than 1 ohm. The same can be said about checking for continuity between each of the three terminals and ground. Less than 1 ohm on all three. On my meter, connecting the probes produces less than 1 ohm of resistance so safe to say there was no resistance on all the tests I ran.
According to the Haynes manual, if the stator is healthy there should be three resistance readings of very similar value across the three terminals coming from the stator, and there should be no continuity (infinite resistance) between each terminal and ground.
I've checked for damaged wiring or connectors but now I'll pull the cover to see if there is damaged wires there. If not my problem is unquestionably the stator.
Agreed. Appears that your wires or coil are gounded. When you get the new one, don't forget to check across the coils. Would be interested to see what the resistance is of a good unit.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Stickman Yogi
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The stator is off the bike now and it was DEFINITELY at fault. But the question is... what would make it fry like it did? Another question... why is there oil in there? Must be normal or Ed wouldn't have mentioned it being there, but why? Fried stator (look to the lower left)  Oil in there  Oh yeah... Greg, I will be sure to take those new reading as soon as I get Freedom's old stator delivered and installed.
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Re: Electrical charging issues...
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Loquacious
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Hey Keith, Glad you found the culprit. Man, you are now certified as a Triumph charging system expert. Glad you posted your find. The resistance readings really pointed to a grounded/shorted coil. I've included a link to RM Stator in Quebec that repairs stators and regulators as well as supplies CDI units for the Bonny (360 engines, not ours). More expensive than Pinwall but an option none the less. RM Stator
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
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